Sending a Demilich on a trip...

[Breaw]

Hypothetical situation:

A 16th level wizard gets initiative on a Demilich. He uses his first round to do the following:

1) Standard action: Cast Gate directly beneath the Demilich as a horizontal portal that you enter from the top.

2) Free action: Draw metamagic rod (quicken). This Wizard has quickdraw.

3) Swift action: Cast Forceful Hand.

4) Move action: Order the hand to bullrush the Demilich into the gate.

5) Close the gate.

Now, assuming the following:

1) I haven't just triggered the Demiliche's Contingency spell.
2) The hand succeeds in it's bullrush attempt (which, barring fumble roll he guaranteed does)
3) I haven't broken any rules of core 3.5 DnD. (please tell me if I have)

Where should I send the Demilich that he won't just gate himself back the next round?

I was thinking about the elemental plane of positive energy, as it sounds like the sort of place that would be pretty hostile to Undead, but nowhere can I actually find the details of what would happen to him there...

Anyone have any suggestions? Either a core RAW reference as to what would happen to a Demilich on the positive energy plane, an alternate plane to send him to, or an alternate strategy altogether...

All suggestions welcome, but the only ones I'll actually be able to use are those that are purely core, and that follow RAW implicitly. Both my DM and I are quite picky about such things.

-B

[SurlySeraph]

If you go fully by RAW, the Plane of Positive Energy will actually heal the demilich, because it technically gives creatures fast healing, rather than hitting them with positive energy. Still, since its HP will be at full when it arrives, it'll have to make a DC 20 Fort save every round that its HP are above full or die instantly, and its +10 Fort save isn't going to save it for more than a few rounds.
If you go by a reasonable interpretation of RAW, the Demilich will take 5 positive energy damage per round.
You might also consider the Plane of Radiance, which is like a combination of the Plane of Positive Energy and the Plane of Fire. I'd go with Positive Energy, though.

[NEO|Phyte]

I was thinking about the elemental plane of positive energy, as it sounds like the sort of place that would be pretty hostile to Undead, but nowhere can I actually find the details of what would happen to him there...

Anyone have any suggestions? Either a core RAW reference as to what would happen to a Demilich on the positive energy plane, an alternate plane to send him to, or an alternate strategy altogether...

Ironically, by core RAW, the positive energy plane is one of the WORST places to send the guy.

Sayeth the SRD..
An abundance of life characterizes planes with this trait. The two kinds of positive-dominant traits are minor positive-dominant and major positive-dominant. A minor positive-dominant plane is a riotous explosion of life in all its forms. Colors are brighter, fires are hotter, noises are louder, and sensations are more intense as a result of the positive energy swirling through the plane. All individuals in a positive-dominant plane gain fast healing 2 as an extraordinary ability.

Major positive-dominant planes go even further. A creature on a major positive-dominant plane must make a DC 15 Fortitude save to avoid being blinded for 10 rounds by the brilliance of the surroundings. Simply being on the plane grants fast healing 5 as an extraordinary ability. In addition, those at full hit points gain 5 additional temporary hit points per round. These temporary hit points fade 1d20 rounds after the creature leaves the major positive-dominant plane. However, a creature must make a DC 20 Fortitude save each round that its temporary hit points exceed its normal hit point total. Failing the saving throw results in the creature exploding in a riot of energy, killing it.

Note that unlike Negative-dominant planes, which only affects living creatures, Positive-dominant ones give their beneficial effects to ALL creatures, including undead and constructs. The big kicker is that undead and constructs are immune to the HARMFUL effects of staying too long, as the fort save or explode effect doesn't work on objects, nor is it harmless.

Traits
An undead creature possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).
#
# Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).

[afroakuma]

Celestia or Elysium... either will see a solar arrive quick as a wink to blow the demilich's brains out with destruction or even a wish or miracle.

[Oracle_Hunter]

I wonder... would sending it to the paraelemental plane of vacuum make it incapable of casting spells, since there would be no air to carry the sound?

Aside from that, I'm sure sending it to one of the various Heavens would get the demilich smooshed pretty quickly, no?

[charl]

You could send him to one of the good outer planes. I'm guessing the locals won't like his company too much...

Of course, he might not run into a local there at all.

Can a gate open to the far plane? That would also be pretty cruel.

Also, undeads still take fire damage, right? The elemental plane of fire might be an alternative.

[RTGoodman]

Well, my suggestion would be to find a plane that has the Dead Magic trait. With my total lack of knowledge on D&D cosmology I don't know of any off-hand, but if you can find one that's what I'd go with.

The reason is that, if you send him somewhere that DESTROYS him, he'll just reform at his "soul hidey place" soon and come back at you, probably the same trick you just played. If you TRAP him somewhere, though, where he couldn't even use his spells and powers to kill himself, I don't know how he'd get back short of intervention by some other power.

Also, undeads still take fire damage, right? The elemental plane of fire might be an alternative.

Yeah, but Demilichs have Resistance 20 to Fire, so it wouldn't be that effective.

[charl]

Well, my suggestion would be to find a plane that has the Dead Magic trait. With my total lack of knowledge on D&D cosmology I don't know of any off-hand, but if you can find one that's what I'd go with.

The outlands or whatever they are called. It's the "true neutral" plane that the rest of the planes "revolve" around or are placed "on top of". The closer you come to its central spire the less magic works. At the base of the spire any and all deities instantly dies (or whatever deities do).

Don't know if you can open a gate to that place though. If no magic works then how would a gate be able to materialize?

Speaking of the central spire, how about Sigil? Gate him into the middle of the Hive and he won't last a minute before all his possessions are stolen, his head is bashed in, his body put through unspeakable acts and the Nameless One appears to somehow erase him from existence.

[afroakuma]

Well, my suggestion would be to find a plane that has the Dead Magic trait. With my total lack of knowledge on D&D cosmology I don't know of any off-hand, but if you can find one that's what I'd go with.

The reason is that, if you send him somewhere that DESTROYS him, he'll just reform at his "soul hidey place" soon and come back at you, probably the same trick you just played. If you TRAP him somewhere, though, where he couldn't even use his spells and powers to kill himself, I don't know how he'd get back short of intervention by some other power.

The reason I suggest Celestia or Elysium is that a major good outsider will notice very quickly that a super-evil undead is in an off-limits area. Not only will it likely smash the skull to pieces, a dedicated planetar or solar will probably chase down its reformation as well. They are, after all, that good.

Far Realm: Good luck. A gate spell might do it, but you really wouldn't want to.

Vacuum: Could work as a decent trap.

Mechanus: A legion of maruts would immediately be mobilized, so that could be fun.

[charl]

Mechanus: A legion of maruts would immediately be mobilized, so that could be fun.

Actually, that sounds like a good idea. I'm pretty sure there is a type of lawful outsider that specifically hunts down people that "cheat death", and those guys don't care if he leaves their plane, they'll follow him everywhere, and destroy him. And then they'll make sure he actually dies, so they'll hunt down his phylactery as well.

[afroakuma]

Those would be the ones I indicated, maruts.

As for Dead Magic, no standard cosmology plane or demiplane has that trait, and a gate will not open within the magic-limiting radius of the Spire.

Also: the Spire doesn't kill gods, it simply prevents them from using their powers.
And then, I kill them.
So in summary: drop it anywhere with natives irritable enough to insta-nuke it, then chase down its phylactery for you.

I should also indicate that solars have imprisonment, which is even better for your purposes.

Or: target the gate to just above an antimagic field. The demilich gets pushed through, moving in the hand's direction so it (the demilich) will enter the field first, at which point it will drop to the ground without magic.

[Breaw]

Responses so far:

1) I'd be fine with destroying him. I would have 1d10 days to find his phylactary. Not saying it isn't easy to hide a phylactary, just saying destroying the thing for 1d10 days counts as full victory in this situation for me.

2) To those suggesting I send him somewhere where someone ELSE will beat him up for me... my question is: If I send him to the plan of boyscouts on steroids, won't he just gate back the next round? My DM would have to VERY nice to have an outsider show up and obliterate the Demilich in the one round he finds himself in the wrong plane.

Or: target the gate to just above an antimagic field. The demilich gets pushed through, moving in the hand's direction so it (the demilich) will enter the field first, at which point it will drop to the ground without magic.

Sadly, while the flight of a gem encrusted skull would certainly SEEM magical, it is not listed as a spell, spell-like ability or supernatural ability. As such it is not suppressed by an anti-magic field.

-B

[NEO|Phyte]

Or: target the gate to just above an antimagic field. The demilich gets pushed through, moving in the hand's direction so it (the demilich) will enter the field first, at which point it will drop to the ground without magic.

Except as it's not listed as an exception to the Demilich's immunity to magic and supernatural effects, it ignores the AMF, assuming the hand is even able to push it through.

[afroakuma]

Not to mention, it's immune. Actually, it's immune to all of these solutions, since its magic immunity should protect it from involuntary gating.

Solar casting miracle or wish is your best bet.

2) To those suggesting I send him somewhere where someone ELSE will beat him up for me... my question is: If I send him to the plan of boyscouts on steroids, won't he just gate back the next round? My DM would have to VERY nice to have an outsider show up and obliterate the Demilich in the one round he finds himself in the wrong plane.

Yes, but they are boy scouts. Chances are they'll view it as the plot of a monstrous evil and gate on after him. Solars are fun like that.

[charl]

2) To those suggesting I send him somewhere where someone ELSE will beat him up for me... my question is: If I send him to the plan of boyscouts on steroids, won't he just gate back the next round? My DM would have to VERY nice to have an outsider show up and obliterate the Demilich in the one round he finds himself in the wrong plane.

The Maruts and the celestials would arguably be able to immediately sense him, and even if they don't get him before he gates away they would probably follow him. The maruts because that's what they do and the celestials because they really, really hate evil.

Another solution, prepare two gates and two hands. Send him away, and when he comes back, send him away again. How probable is it he has two gate spells prepared? (He might be a sorcerer though, I think)

[Mikeavelli]

Send him to any layer of Carceri, or the fourth layer of Pandemonium.

Carceri is the prison plane. I'm not sure if this carried over anywhere in the 3rd edition rules, but most Plane Shift style magics work plenty fine for getting you INTO Carceri, but are absolutely useless for getting you OUT of Carceri.

The Demilich, being a demilich, would still probably be able to find a way out, but you'd have a little more time to prepare a proper way of destroying him, like gaining a few more levels and chain-summoning solars with Epic casting or something.

---

the fourth layer of Pandemonium is much the same thing, the entire plane is a giant solid rock with individual bubbles of air where the gods throw things they want to disappear, like horrible monsters or dangerously powerful artifacts. It's supposed to be as hard to leave as Carceri is, but it has the added penalty that your DM might rule the Demilich picked up some powerful, ancient, evil artifact while it was taking its trip.

----

Don't send him to Celestia or Elysium. Yes, the Solars would waste him. Then, someone would track down how the tremendously evil thing got to Celestia, who cast the gate, what plane is he from, etc. Then, you'd have an irate celestial coming down in search of an explanation, and you'd better have a good one.

----

Ask your DM about the Positive Material Plane. By RAW it'd be a pretty terrible choice, but by Fluff it'd probably be the best choice. If your DM rules in favor of fluff, go for it.

[Starsinger]

Send him to any layer of Carceri, or the fourth layer of Pandemonium.

Carceri is the prison plane. I'm not sure if this carried over anywhere in the 3rd edition rules, but most Plane Shift style magics work plenty fine for getting you INTO Carceri, but are absolutely useless for getting you OUT of Carceri.

Send him to Ravenloft...

[afroakuma]

Can't be done. Gate cannot open into Ravenloft.

[Eldan]

Hmm. Carceri is probably the best one named. Also nice: the uppermost heaven of Celestia. No one's ever returned from there, and evil creatures die pretty much instantly.

[Flickerdart]

Speaking of the central spire, how about Sigil? Gate him into the middle of the Hive and he won't last a minute before all his possessions are stolen, his head is bashed in, his body put through unspeakable acts and the Nameless One appears to somehow erase him from existence.

Travel magic doesn't work into Sigil. You have to use one of the doors.

As for trips, Carceri seems to be your best bet. Or better yet, send him somewhere where, after a while, it CAN kill itself to reform, but unbeknown to it, you've gonked its phylactery. Hilarity ensues.

[afroakuma]

Hmm. Carceri is probably the best one named. Also nice: the uppermost heaven of Celestia. No one's ever returned from there, and evil creatures die pretty much instantly.

Chronias also cannot be gated into.

Not to mention, again: the gate will not work on the demilich, since it is immune to magic.

Were it not, I'd say the River Styx might be the best choice, since it would forget what had just happened to it.

[Gaiwecoor]

Ok, somebody tell me if I'm wrong on this, but I don't think you can draw a rod as a free action with Quick Draw:

Quick Draw

You can draw a weapon as a free action instead of as a move action. You can draw a hidden weapon (see the Sleight of Hand skill) as a move action.

It requires the item drawn to be a weapon, rather than a ... anything else. That would require you retrieve a stored item, which is specified as a move action (listed as separate from "draw a weapon").

Am I missing something?

[Edit] Of course, you could walk around with the rod in hand, just in case

[afroakuma]

*shrug* You could claim it to be a simple weapon, such as a lousy club. If you tried to employ it as such, you'd suffer penalties.

[Stormthorn]

his body put through unspeakable acts

What body?


And would the Demiliches magic immunity protect it from the Hand or not?

Oh, and i read somewhere (dont know were, so it probably doesnt count) that demiliches are interested primarily in the secrets of the universe and whatnot, so you wouldnt need to fight it in the firt place if you didnt do something to piss it off.