To Kill a Goddess [4E]

[Mando Knight]

In the Dragonomicon I, a monster has (finally) been unleashed that matches, nay, surpasses, Orcus. Of course, this beast is none other than the evil dragon Tiamat. She gains 5 standard actions and 5 minor actions per turn, and can make saving throws against any sustained effect... regardless of whether she can normally do so otherwise. She has 5 action points (but can still only use one per round, and each head can only use one), and has AC and Fortitude defenses of 51 each. After attacking, she can unleash a Close Burst 30 attack that deals 10d8 damage and 25 ongoing damage that are nearly impossible to resist. (The main damage deals damage in 5 elements, the ongoing in 3) (Oddly, she's only Huge, so there are several dragons that are larger than her main form...)

On top of all that, there are several requirements to actually standing a chance at killing Tiamat:
1.) You must trick her into Bahamut's domain, probably by using her own greed.
2.) You must kill 5 ancient chromatic dragons of different colors, then craft magic items from their remains. At least one of these must have been one of Tiamat's consorts...
3.) You must steal one of her eggs, then destroy it with a newly forged weapon. You must use the weapon to wound her at least once.

How would you propose to send an adventuring party out to kill Tiamat? Submit a level 30 party, their preferred enchanted items (including the required draconic weapons), and a basic tactical pattern to defeat her.

[Drammel]

Well this is awfully convenient for me. In June I started a campaign that kicked off with the PCs becoming enslaved by Tiamat for her own nefarious reasons. Our Paladin of Bahamut has been none too thrilled since then .

[mikeejimbo]

A party of what size? As it stands I'd just build a party of about 1000 level 30 characters, maybe 250 Clerics, just enough Fighters to completely surround her (Huge takes up, what? 3x3? 4x4? Even at 4x4 it'd only be 14 to completely surround her) and then 736 Rangers.

[FoE]

(Oddly, she's only Huge, so there are several dragons that are larger than her main form...)

It's not the size that counts, mate. It's how you use it.

We need more information! For example, what level is Tiamat?

[mikeejimbo]

Wait a minute, no. I need some Paladins in there to cast Wrath of the Gods for a +3 untyped bonus to damage. Maybe just add about 500 Paladins into the mix, that should be enough to cover everyone with a number of those buffs.

Edit: Checking my book, it's not +3, it's +Charisma. The Paladin at my table just had a 16 Cha. And it's only close burst, so we'd have to stagger Paladins in a checkerboard pattern.

[Vortling]

It's not the size that counts, mate. It's how you use it.

We need more information! For example, what level is Tiamat?

Actually we just need to know her will defense.

[Inyssius Tor]

Or, wait, does she have that "nasty debilitating effects only knock out one head" thing?

[Artanis]

It's not the size that counts, mate. It's how you use it.

Well, he did say you had to kill at least one of her consorts

[mikeejimbo]

Also note that Tiamat WILL go first. But I don't think she can kill too many before I get to go. And at that point, I will win... that is, IF I can get 736 Rangers within range all at once. What's the range of a bow? 40 squares, max? I'm pretty much banking on auto-hits from natural 20s here, so I don't care about the long range modifiers or anything. A circle with radius 40? 5024 squares. Plenty of room for my rangers. In fact, I might want even MORE of them. Specifically, 5024 - 16 (For the room she takes up.) And you know what, I don't think we really have the time to get Wrath of the Gods set up, either, but with 5008 rangers I don't think we'll need it. I don't need fighters or anything either with this, I mean YES she'll kill SOME rangers, but it hardly matters.

So, the rangers next to her will be unique in that they will be the TWO WEAPON FIGHTING kind. That's 14 of them. They will be completely optimized to HIT, and use whatever power hits the best. This is just to hit with the weapon that destroyed her egg or whatever arbitrary limitation was imposed.

Now the rest of them use Three in One Shot. More than 15% of them will hit, though I'm unsure on the math here about how many hit how many times. I don't think it matters. With careful planning, they should have Dex mods of +10 and do an average of 11 damage with three in one shot with their bows. So 21 damage. No crits here, I don't think we can make it but I don't think it matters. 15% is about 750. Dang, that's not many! That's only 15750 damage, she might have more HP than that. Even if she doesn't, I'm sure she has Resist Everything at 20, in which case she'd only take 750 damage... but I'd give them +6 weapons for 5250 damage. Is THAT enough?

I mean, the only criteria was "Level 30" party, you didn't say I couldn't make 5000 of them....

[Nerd-o-rama]

What's the point of cheating the intent of a hypothetical question?

[mikeejimbo]

What's the point of cheating the intent of a hypothetical question?

It amuses me? He didn't say what SIZE party.

[Mando Knight]

Or, wait, does she have that "nasty debilitating effects only knock out one head" thing?

Oh, yeah... I forgot about that. Yes, she does.

Ah... use a 5-character party (one for each head!) for builds...

Her Will and Reflex are 49 and 48, respectively. She also has resist 15 against acid, poison, cold, lightning, and fire. If she's not injured with the egg-killing weapon at least once before she's bloodied, she'll just vanish. She's also immune to non-epic tier characters, so don't even think of throwing in some low-level mooks to distract her... they'll probably die against her aura (25 acid, cold, fire, poison, and lightning damage against anyone that starts their turn in or enters her Aura 10) anyway...

Her initiative is 45, then 40, 35, 30, and 25, activating one head each time.

[mikeejimbo]

She'd kill a party of 5 in one turn, though.

[Mando Knight]

Ah... right... party warband of 20. Four for each head. She's alone, and for convenience's sake, the battlefield is an infinite plane in Bahamut's realm.

[mikeejimbo]

Hmm, that's a little better, because she can only kill 5 in each turn. (I'm assuming the worst here, not knowing about her attacks or anything)

[Arbitrarity]

Easy enough :). Assuming she doesn't lose actions to status effects, like Hydras, we can put her to sleep. Observe.

Get a warlord/Battle Captain/Demigod.

Get an elven wizard/cleric/Divine Oracle/Archmage with an orb of ultimate imposition +6, 17 dex, 24 INT, 26 WIS and 13 cha. Take Spell Focus, elven accuracy, second implement (wand), etc.

Now, the trick is landing the hit. The wizard gains +3 from wand, +7 from INT, +15 from level, +6 from item, for +31. Vs 48 :).

Of course, this is what warlord was made for. Oh, and a warlock.

Warlord is heavily int focused eladrin, 30 INT. He uses Inspiring Word on the wizard, and... readies an attack or something.
The wizard casts Legion's Hold. He gains +38 to hit, not using his wand, and rolls twice. It doesn't matter if he hits. He spends an AP, and uses Sleep. He gains +46 to hit, rolls twice, and can reroll at +48. He hits. He uses his orb of ultimate imposition, and Orb of Imposition. Tiamat gains -16 to saving throws against sleep. Lulz ensue.

Oh. The wizard has +33 init, and rolls two or three times, depending on interpretation. In fact, so does everyone. Hm. How to survive now.

What attacks can Tiamat make with her likely 2 actions? Will any of them likely kill the characters, esp. the wizard, with his mere 153 hp?

Oh, or this Shennanigans

[Mando Knight]

Easy enough :). Assuming she doesn't lose actions to status effects, like Hydras, we can put her to sleep. Observe.

Get a warlord/Battle Captain/Demigod.

Get an elven wizard/cleric/Divine Oracle/Archmage with an orb of ultimate imposition +6, 17 dex, 24 INT, 26 WIS and 13 cha. Take Spell Focus, elven accuracy, second implement (wand), etc.

Now, the trick is landing the hit. The wizard gains +3 from wand, +7 from INT, +15 from level, +6 from item, for +31. Vs 48 :).

Of course, this is what warlord was made for. Oh, and a warlock.

Warlord is heavily int focused eladrin, 30 INT. He uses Inspiring Word on the wizard, and... readies an attack or something.
The wizard casts Legion's Hold. He gains +38 to hit, not using his wand, and rolls twice. It doesn't matter if he hits. He spends an AP, and uses Sleep. He gains +46 to hit, rolls twice, and can reroll at +48. He hits. He uses his orb of ultimate imposition, and Orb of Imposition. Tiamat gains -16 to saving throws against sleep. Lulz ensue.

Oh. The wizard has +33 init, and rolls two or three times, depending on interpretation. In fact, so does everyone. Hm. How to survive now.

What attacks can Tiamat make with her likely 2 actions? Will any of them likely kill the characters, esp. the wizard, with his mere 153 hp?

I don't know how much I can post on her stats without getting the mods mad... but she seems fully vulnerable to Sleep, but only loses her next activation when dazed or stunned. She also gains a free saving throw against every ongoing effect.

If she has two actions, she'll likely open up with one of her breath weapons and Frightful Majesty, a close burst 20, +38 vs. Will encounter attack that stuns without any saves until the end of her next turn. Deactivate her, and everyone will be stunned until she wakes up. Not a good idea, considering her resistances and deadly aura. Her tail Sting also dominates as a secondary effect (+42 vs Will, save ends).

When she's first bloodied, she recharges and uses her Chromatic Breath, a burst 30, +38 vs Reflex that deals 10d8 elemental (the base 5 chromatics' breath elements) damage and 25 ongoing damage, and slows the enemy. She also has a Hover speed of 15, land speed of 10, and teleport speed of 5.

Also, level 14 Munchkin Wizard cannot damage her in any way: She's got a line in her statblock that states that she's immune to anything 20th level or lower.

...y'know what? I think I'll just open up a one-shot PbP to see what will happen...

[NPCMook]

The end of her next turn is her next Saving throw, not till she wakes up... If this were true I'd multiclass Wizard and put our Wizard to sleep all the time after he cast one of his spells.

Edit: If she's asleep you dose a weapon with an egg and Coup de Grace

[Mando Knight]

If you want to try to kill her, here's a PbP I'm starting up to do just that.

[hamishspence]

Having gotten the Huge Tiamat mini in Dragon Queen set and been disappointed (was hoping for another model) am now rather less disappointed- the news that top level version of Tiamat is Huge is rather pleasing.

[ZeroNumerous]

Also, level 14 Munchkin Wizard cannot damage her in any way: She's got a line in her statblock that states that she's immune to anything 20th level or lower.

Then he advances to level 21 and pulls off the exact same set up and succeeds anyway. The point of his post was: It's doable with a 21st Level Wizard.

[KKL]

Killing Tiamat in one round without infinite loops. With just three L27 warlords.

Always cracks me up.