Wizard Build Help (3.5)

[Gardakan]

I need to make a character to begin to play with three others players. I was the MD for 5-6 games but i wanted to play and a player*to be a DM.

So the party had : Dwarf Fighter 7, Dwarf Protector 1 - Common Elven Sorcerer 1, Fighter 6, Arcane Archer 1 and Human Priestess 8.

I think to do a wizard or a rogue-wizard.

I've think of taking 5 levels of wizard but after, i don't know what to take. Rogue or Prestige Class.

My stats are

STR : 14
DEX : 19(21)
CON : 14
INT : 22(24)
WIS : 13
CHA : 15

I'm a grey elf.

Someone could send me the stats of the class Mage of the Arcane Order or War Wizard of Cormyr...

What should i take for feats?

I'm specialized in enchantment and my school banned are Necromancy and Illusion.

[Emperor Tippy]

What books and sources do you have access too, what are your goals for the character, and what power level do you want?

[Keld Denar]

Hmmm, any chance you can retrain your forcus on enchantment? Enchantment is about the 2nd weakest school of magic. With the exception of a couple gems like Otto's Irresistable Dance (SUPERSTAR!) and Dominate X, most of the spells are rather lackluster and their effects could easily be replaced by other effects.

If you want wiz/rogue, I'd suggest conjuration or evocation (gasp) forcus. This gives you the largest number of rays and orbs to sneak attack with. Check out the Unseen Seer PrC from Complete Mage. Its easily accessable after level 5 (Rogue1/Wiz4) which means you'd be 3 levels deep into it at level 8. You can finish up with Arcane Trickster or Archmage as desired.

As a straight wizard, I'd suggest maybe a 1 level dip into Mindbender. This fits your Enchantement focus and gives you telepethy which qualifies you to take the Mindsight feat from Lords of Madness, which is all kinds of coolness. After that, any of the full caster PrCs are decent. Divine Oracle2/Loremaster3 is a nice 5 level investment, netting your Evasion and either a +2 to a given save (fort) or a +1 to hit (for rays). This also nets you UMD as a class skill, allowing for all kinds of abuse especially with a Bead of Karma (DC20 to simulate a 1st level cleric). 2-3 levels of Archmage are great for just about every build, but can't come any earlier than level 14 due to casting prereqs. Initiate of the 7fold Veils is also accessable, even to an enchanter, but is rather feat intensive and late developing.

More info on desires would be helpful!

[Gardakan]

I wanna do a wizard specialized in evocation finally. What do you suggest to me... i have 27 000 gp to spend but i count a tiara of intelligence + 2

I have access to all the books and class. I just need to prove that the class exist to my DM...

[Gardakan]

So i will do that...

Wizard 5, Unseen Seer 3
I have some tricky skills and i have my full spellcaster progression...

Maybre i could do that

Rogue 1, Wizard 4, Unseen Seer 2 , Arcane Trickster 1

The unseen seer is awesome. Thanks to the people that make me know of the existence of that class...

[Emperor Tippy]

If you have access to all the books and are going for pure power just take Incantatrix (Players Guide to FR) followed by 1 level of Mindbender and 4 levels of Archmage.

[Gardakan]

My god... Incantatrix it's so fantastic. My friend show me all the class.

For the Spellcraft i'm ok...

I've a +28 bonus in the skill at the level 8...

[Emperor Tippy]

That should be enough I suppose.

Be warned though, using Incantatrix to it's full potential is likely to earn you the DM's wrath and result in some random event killing you with no chance of survival.

[wadledo]

That should be enough I suppose.

Be warned though, using Incantatrix to it's full potential is likely to earn you the DM's wrath and result in some random event killing you with no chance of survival.

Though, if he can't survive anything the DM throws at him by playing a fully optimized wizard, then it's Darwinism, which means we are better off.

[Gardakan]

I have pretty good defense.

Fortitude : + 8
Reflexes : + 11
Will : +12

AC : 24

HP : 53

And some pretty spells for hard core situation...

Dimensional Door, Expeditious Retreat, Fly and Greater Invisibility...

[Emperor Tippy]

And when the DM get's fed up and throws a fully optimized Incantatrix at you?

[wadledo]

And when the DM get's fed up and throws a fully optimized Incantatrix at you?

That's when you pull out Pun-pun.

[Yodaman23]

I'd say go full wizard. I have never seen a very effective rogue/wizard.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

I'd say go full wizard. I have never seen a very effective rogue/wizard.

Beguiler.

[Eldariel]

I'd say go full wizard. I have never seen a very effective rogue/wizard.

Rogue 1/Wizard 5/Unseen Seer 10/whatever 4 with Practiced Spellcaster is fairly efficient. Rogue 1/Wizard 4/X is doable too, but Wizard 5 gives you Spontaneous Divination, which every Unseen Seer wants.

[Heliomance]

[thread hijack]
I'm also considering a Wizard build - I'm thinking Transmuter 5/War Weaver 5/Incantatrix 10. How good is this, and is it playable all the way through?
[/thread hijack]

[olentu]

Which 3 schools of magic are being lost in this build.

[Gardakan]

I'm considering doing that...

Rogue 1/ Wizard 4/ Unseen Seer 2/ Arcane Trickster 1 and more...

I want to play a roguish wizard. I cast spells like a level 7 wizard but i have sneak attack +2d6 like a level 3 rogue...

[Heliomance]

Which 3 schools of magic are being lost in this build.

Evocation, Enchantment, and either Illusion or Necromancy. Focus on buffing, with debuffs as a secondary.

[Eldariel]

I'm considering doing that...

Rogue 1/ Wizard 4/ Unseen Seer 2/ Arcane Trickster 1 and more...

I want to play a roguish wizard. I cast spells like a level 7 wizard but i have sneak attack +2d6 like a level 3 rogue...

Arcane Trickster has pretty ugly entry requirements. Also, it only has 4+Int skills per level. Unseen Seer, while having slightly slower SA advancement, has more skills, better BAB, great class features (learn any Divinations? OMG! That gets you Hunter's Eye [PHBII] for extra SA damage, Guided Shot [SC] for ignoring stupid obstacles with rays et al. and Sniper's Shot [SC] for Sneak Attacks at long range, etc.), while Divination Spell Power can be fixed via. Practiced Spellcaster. Spellwarp Sniper is a good finish if you've got Able Learner - 4+Int skills, Sudden Strike for Rays and some decent abilities.

[Weezer]

Evocation, Enchantment, and either Illusion or Necromancy. Focus on buffing, with debuffs as a secondary.

If you want debuffs keep necromancy, it is the master of debuffs

[Eldariel]

It's more like Abjuration or Necromancy. Illusion gives you all your best defenses ((Greater) Mirror Images, Displacements, Invisibilities, etc.) along with the whole Evocation (in Shadow Evocations), fixing the worst things you'd miss there, and a slew of super utility-spells like Major Image, Simulacrum, Project Image, etc. Oh, and stuff like Shadow Walk.

[Heliomance]

One of the requirements for Incantatrix is that you've not banned Abjuration.

[Eldariel]

One of the requirements for Incantatrix is that you've not banned Abjuration.

Ah yeah, Incantatrix. I was thinking of Focused Specialist, sorry. Necro.

[Heliomance]

trouble is, Necromancy has some incredibly good debuffs in it.

[Eldariel]

trouble is, Necromancy has some incredibly good debuffs in it.

It's a smaller loss than Illusion, Conjuration or Transmutation though - those are the Big 3. You can debuff with Conjuration pretty well.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

trouble is, Necromancy has some incredibly good debuffs in it.

Bannable schools, in general, end up running out, at which point that one more lost school hurts.

• Divination is legally unbannable, and too good to consider banning anyways.
• Conjuration is worth begging your DM to let you ban Divination for.
• Transmutation is better than Conjuration.
• Illusion has a lot of versatility, giving you some of the best defenses and good will save spells, as well as Contingency. Not really bannable.
• Necromancy has some of the best no-save debuffs and general 'Crush my enemy' spells, but it lacks some of the variety of other schools. Not much to lose, but what you do lose hurts like hell.
• Enchantment has a lot of the best will-saves, and has some other fun stuff too, but you can duplicate everything it does elsewhere. Bannable.
• Abjuration has a few really good spells, but all of them are on the Cleric list, so if you've got a pal you can ban it.
• Evocation. Ban.

Iot7V has to keep Abjuration, and Incantrix loses 3, so while Enchantment and Evocation are out, the third school will hurt no matter what. I recommend delaying taking Incantrix until you get the good Necro spells(most of them are 5th or lower), then banning it. The best effects in the school are low level, and you can still use them.

[Eldariel]

I'd stop at level 4 spells simply since I don't want to delay Incantatrix any longer than that. Once you have Enervation, False Life, Animate Dead, the Rays and maybe Cause Fear-types for low levels, you've got all you need. Magic Jar is handy, but that's really most there is to it. And this allows you to start Incantatrix on level 8. Not as early as I'd like, but if you have Shadowcraft Mage or such to take before it, it's ok.

Of course, the reading that you don't lose the ability to cast spells you already know from the prohibitten school is, while perhaps RAW, clearly against RAI.

[Heliomance]

Wait - you keep spells you already know when you ban a school? If so, that's fine, as the build doesn't go into Incantatrix until 10. I was planning on finishing War Weaver before hitting Incantatrix.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Wait - you keep spells you already know when you ban a school?

Schools are normally banned before your first level of Wizard. Incantrix is the exception, and so it works a bit wonky, and IMHO allows you to keep spells you could cast before leveling in it.