Tank-ish Crusader Build

[kjones]

I want to make a Crusader who can soak up a lot of hits - it seems like this is one of the things the class does best. Damage output + battlefield control are secondary concerns.

Thus far, I'm thinking S&B, but the only feat that comes to mind as readily useful is Devoted Bulwark. My biggest concern here is making sure that enemies actually target me, and don't just waltz on by to wail on my allies - Iron Guard's Glare stance (-4 to attacks on allies) should help here. I'd consider using a reach weapon, but I really want a shield.

Suggestions (mostly on feats)?

[Frosty]

Thicket of Blades stance + Spiked chains + Combat Reflexes + Improved trip/Stand Still + Animated Tower shield.

[ColdSepp]

Thicket of Blades stance + Spiked chains + Combat Reflexes + Improved trip/Stand Still + Animated Tower shield.

Or a Glaive and Armor spikes. Either way, this is the build.

[Eldariel]

If you want to use a Shield, you'll have to prepare for tight formations and stuff like Shield Block, which in turn opens you up for all manners of AoE magic nonsense. That said, you can't really build an S&B Control-build. You can build a decent combat S&B build, and one of those Shield Slam-builds, but that's about all there is to it. Read this if you're interested - it may be closest to what you want.

[KKL]

Thicket of Blades stance + Spiked chains + Combat Reflexes + Improved trip/Stand Still + Animated Tower shield.

You could always use a Duom instead of a Spiked Chain.

[MeklorIlavator]

Here's a build from Bears With Lasers that's worked pretty well in the past:

Try this. Use a guisarme.

1: Combat Reflexes, Power Attack
3: Stand Still
6: Dodge
9: Karmic Strike
12: Imp. Bullrush
15: Pushback (MiniHB) or Deft Opportunist
18: Shock Trooper

You could fit in Improved Trip at the cost of two feats. You use the 3rd-level Devoted Spirit stance Thicket of Blades combined with Stand Still to keep anyone from closing with you, though; combine this way increases of your reach, like Enlarge Person potions/spells. Karmic Strike means that even if they get to attack you, you get to attack them back when they hit you, at full AB (+4 via Deft Opportunist). If you took Pushback instead, you get to bullrush them with each hit, moving them 5' if you succeed; when they move, they'll provoke an AoO.

Combine this with various Devoted Spirit and White Raven strikes, and you're set.

Just a note--you could do battlefield control more effectively as a fighter, psychic warrior, or fighter/psychic warrior. You'd be much less effective overall, however, so I don't recommend that. ;)
Incidentally, I forgot to work Extra Granted Maneuver into the build. It's a really good feat for crusaders. Take it instead of Dodge, then push Dodge and Karmic Strike back three levels, give up Imp. Bullrush, and get Deft Opportunist at 15, then Martial Stance (Immortal Fortitude) as your level 18 feat, I guess. Or Imp. Bullrush/Shock Trooper as level 15/18.

On maneuver selection, here's what I'd do:
Level 1: Leading the Attack (WR), Charging Minotaur (SD), Crusader's Strike (DS), Vanguard Strike (DS), Stone Bones (SD), Martial Spirit stance (DS)
Level 2: Iron Guard's Glare stance (DS)
Level 3: Battle Leader's Charge (WR)
Level 4: swap Stone Bones out for Stone Vise (SD)
Level 5: White Raven Tactics (WR), perhaps the best maneuver in the book
Level 7: Revitalizing Strike (DS 3)
Level 8: swap Battle Leader's Charge out for Divine Surge; Thicket of Blades (DS 3) stance
Level 9: Elder Mountain Hammer (SD), or Flanking Maneuver (WR) if your flankin' buddy does a lot of damage
Level 11: Rallying Strike (DS)
Level 12: swap Charging Minotaur out for Irresistible Mountain Strike (SD)
Level 13: Swarming Assault (WR) if a lot of your allies melee one creature at the same time as you, Colossus Strike (SD) otherwise
Level 14: Aura of Perfect Order stance (DS)
Level 15: White Raven Hammer (WR) - no-save stun FTW.
Level 16: swap something out for Greater Divine Surge (DS)
Level 17: Strike of Righteous Vitality (DS)! Heal yourself. You can combine this with Greater Divine Surge by burning 17 CON with GDS for a crapton of damage, using White Raven Tactics on yourself, then using Strike of Righteous Vitality to Heal yourself, removing the CON damage, right away... as long as you had all three of'em granted.
Level 19: War Master's Charge (WR)
Level 20: swap an old Stone Dragon maneuver out for Mountain Tombstone Strike.

It doesn't include a shield, but it does really shut things down.

[Grynning]

Gestalt with the PHB II Knight for Knight's Challenge.

Now you're a 4th edition Paladin.

[Epinephrine]

Stone Power works well with the Crusader's delayed damage pool in order to soak damage.

Backstab works well at getting you attacked - if an enemy you flank attacks one of your allies, you get an AoO on them. You'd need to develop the flanking angle; my crusader is paired with a swordsage who uses Island of Blades.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Stone Power is one of the best ways of boosting soak ability. If you really want a Reach Weapon&Shield, the Kusari-Gama from the DMG works. It's a Light Spiked Chain. Try tossing in Stand Still, Combat Reflexes, Robilar's Gambit, and Tripping/Disarming to force the enemy to do NOTHING.

[kjones]

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

I'm posting this in my efforts to help out one of my players, who was interested in a S&B crusader... he's now changed his mind, and wants to play a whisper gnome spiked chain crusader.

I tried explaining to him that while he may be getting lots of AoO's, they won't do piss-all, but he's not hearing it. I might need to pull out some numbers and show him that control crusaders are only effective through status effects, not damage. And whisper gnome? He'll be wearing heavy armor - he's not sneaking anywhere.

Anyway, I was looking at Stone Power, but it seems wasteful to take it in addition to Power Attack... would you rule that you can use Shock Trooper to mitigate the penalty from Stone Power instead of Power Attack? (Since Stone Power states that you can use it as a prereq for things that require Power Attack.)

Again, thanks for the input. I know I should just let him play whatever he wants... but I'm afraid that left to his own devices, he'll come up with a very sub-optimal build, and I'm planning a relatively deadly campaign.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, we're starting at level 5.

[Eldariel]

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

I'm posting this in my efforts to help out one of my players, who was interested in a S&B crusader... he's now changed his mind, and wants to play a whisper gnome spiked chain crusader.

I tried explaining to him that while he may be getting lots of AoO's, they won't do piss-all, but he's not hearing it. I might need to pull out some numbers and show him that control crusaders are only effective through status effects, not damage. And whisper gnome? He'll be wearing heavy armor - he's not sneaking anywhere.

Anyway, I was looking at Stone Power, but it seems wasteful to take it in addition to Power Attack... would you rule that you can use Shock Trooper to mitigate the penalty from Stone Power instead of Power Attack? (Since Stone Power states that you can use it as a prereq for things that require Power Attack.)

Again, thanks for the input. I know I should just let him play whatever he wants... but I'm afraid that left to his own devices, he'll come up with a very sub-optimal build, and I'm planning a relatively deadly campaign.

Stone Power is used on subsequent rounds when you have damage in delayed damage pool. It's a great way to afford more hits and to utilize the DD pool.

Whisper Gnome Spiked Chain Crusader actually isn't horrible. You can get nice damage from maneuvers, and PA is as good as ever. Str bonuses won't be that big, but bleh. You could actually make it a Finesse-build; that would unfortunately limit your stances, or damage. 1.5x damage from THF is really Str-focused. Still, 16 Str wouldn't hurt him too bad on higher levels as he's got other sources of damage. On first level, the loss of To Hit and damage is huge though.

[Epinephrine]

I tried explaining to him that while he may be getting lots of AoO's, they won't do piss-all, but he's not hearing it. I might need to pull out some numbers and show him that control crusaders are only effective through status effects, not damage. And whisper gnome? He'll be wearing heavy armor - he's not sneaking anywhere.

Anyway, I was looking at Stone Power, but it seems wasteful to take it in addition to Power Attack... would you rule that you can use Shock Trooper to mitigate the penalty from Stone Power instead of Power Attack? (Since Stone Power states that you can use it as a prereq for things that require Power Attack.)

You can sneak in full plate. It's actually quite doable - full plate has a -6 penalty, but magical and masterwork is only -5. If you go to Mithril Full Plate you're already looking at only -4.

If he's a Whisper Gnome he may not be shooting for a really low dexterity; the Max Dex bonus on full plate is a rather shabby +1 (+3 though for Mithril), so if he plans to have more than 12 (16) Dex with items he'll want it boosted anyway: Enter the Nimble enhancement (+1 bonus, adds +1 to the dex bonus, subtracts 2 from the armour penalty). This can reduce the penalty to -3 (-2), which is less than his racial/size bonus, and allows him to benefit from up to a 14 (18) Dexterity. If you have the dexterity to beneift from the +1 Dex bonus it's great, since you can still use a Magic Vestment to gain AC, so you're gaining AC from the Nimble enhancement as well as from the vestments.

If he's got feats to use, Heavy Armour Optimization (RoS) allows you a +1 AC in a type of Heavy Armour (choose your full plate) as well as a -1 to the armour penalty - it can now be as low as -2(-1), and you still have a decent AC. A second feat in armour optimization can pick up Greater Heavy Armour Optimization, increasing AC by another +1, and reducing the armour penalty by another 2. This can completely eliminate the penalty for even non-mithril full plate, allowing you to wear adamantine full plate and have no penalty.

For Stone Power - Yes, I would alter it to behave like Power Attack, getting an additional multiplier. It's not RAW, but I like rule 0. At low level Stone Power is awesome for soaking damage. You get hit for 5, put it in your delayed damage pool. You swing at -3 to hit, gaining +1 to hit and damage from the Furious Counterattack (-2 to hit, +1 damage), to gain 6 temporary hitpoints - which completely negates the damage you just took.

Interestingly, you can gain the temp hit points without connecting, so you can actually guarantee absorbing 10 damage a round by swinging at -5.