[3.5] Warfare in D&D

[weenie]

So I was thinking.. We all know that warfare in a high level D&D setting boils down to which side has more casters and who gets access to the Locate City bomb first, but what would warfare look like in a low level(E6) D&D world?

I think casters would still be a great asset, but rather than direct combat they would be used for communication and other sorts of battlefield control.

Also in a lower level world low level units become useful again. 100 lvl 1 foot soldiers represent sure death for even the most epic of heroes, even if he'd have no problem taking them on one at a time.

But still it probably wouldn't be the same thing as ordinary medieval warfare either. Siege towers would be replaced by potions of spider climb, a besieged town would always have a fresh source of water thanks to Clerics spamming create water all the time and it would be actually possible to catapult elite strike teams over castle walls if they had a caster amongst to cast feather fall before they landed.

So if you had to plan an assault on another kingdom, how would you go about it?

[Blackfang108]

...and it would be actually possible to catapult elite strike teams over castle walls if they had a caster amongst to cast feather fall before they landed.

Rings of featherfall (if applicable. I'm not sure of the magic item avalibility in E6) would be more efficient.

Mostly, I'd Kill everything with fire.

Lots and lots of oil.

[bosssmiley]

So I was thinking.. We all know that warfare in a high level D&D setting boils down to which side has more casters and who gets access to the Locate City bomb first, but what would warfare look like in a low level(E6) D&D world?

Quick answer: "Warhammer Fantasy Battle"

Longer answer:

• Knights would return to their rightful place as useful shock troops.
• Archery wouldn't be rendered obsolete by wind wall and the like.
• A squad of pegasus/griffon-riders would be hardcore again.
• Arcane casters would return to the SpecOps/Intel status they held back in the day, rather than being the WMDs of the D&D world.
• Clerics would be combat medics again (rather than divine power/righteous mighted tanks)
• Bardic music would make a significant difference on the field (♪ Men of Harlech stand ye steady... ♫)
• Humanoids are back where they belong: rampaging across the countryside looting and killing en masse
• Allied giants and low-mid CR monsters would be the anchor points of the battlefield

Dragon #160 had an article or two devoted to answering exactly this question. The 2E "Birthright" setting (low magic, armies and the clash of kings) is also perfect source material.

[BRC]

Generally, the lower level you get, the more things will look like real combat.
A human warrior with a longsword (assuming a +1 to str and con), will have 5hp and deal an average of 5 damage per hit. So if you get hit with a longsword, chances are you are down. Perhaps abit more lethal than reality, but it's pretty close. At low levels you won't have one cleric being able to heal massive amounts of troops. You won't have Wizards fireballing the battlefield, you probably won't have much in the way of flying units, ect.

[Vexxation]

I'd catapult simple traps, like Color Spray traps, at the enemy archers. In a level six world, the average foot soldier will be out of commission for quite awhile.

My army would be either Clerics or Druids.
If Clerics, they'd all be in normal breastplates, with normal maces and shield, but they'd each give themselves a Shield of Faith and a Magic Weapon. Other spells would be based on focus. Crowd Controllers would be using Cause Fear and Obscuring Mist. Frontliners would be using Bless and Entropic Shield. Following behind would be the Hospitalers, healing the injured as they advanced, or slaying the wounded foes they come by.

Druids would be much the same, except those of high enough level to Wildshape. The Wildshapers would go Bear or Wolf. The lower druids would be wearing breastplates and armed with quarterstaves to be targeted by their Shillelagh spell. Animal companions would all be either Badgers or Wolves. Combat would be much the same as that of the Clerics, though Druids of 3rd or higher would be Barkskined. Flaming Sphere would probably see some use. Obscuring Mist would still be used as crowd control. As usual, the Healers would be behind, curing the wounded as they could.

As far as ranged attack, standard siege weapons, plus Wizards. The Wizards would be abusing Mage Hand, firing Colossal bolts at the walls, with rope attached. The ropes would be attached to giant winches, so as to retrieve the bolts and rip holes in the walls. Powering the Winches would be Half-Orc barbarians under Bull's Strength.

That would probably be pretty effective, as long as my supply of troops was big enough. Of course, that would depend on the size of the defending force.

It's totally doable for less that the combined WBL of the troops, especially since I used no magic items.

[Emperor Tippy]

So I was thinking.. We all know that warfare in a high level D&D setting boils down to which side has more casters and who gets access to the Locate City bomb first, but what would warfare look like in a low level(E6) D&D world?

I think casters would still be a great asset, but rather than direct combat they would be used for communication and other sorts of battlefield control.

Also in a lower level world low level units become useful again. 100 lvl 1 foot soldiers represent sure death for even the most epic of heroes, even if he'd have no problem taking them on one at a time.

But still it probably wouldn't be the same thing as ordinary medieval warfare either. Siege towers would be replaced by potions of spider climb, a besieged town would always have a fresh source of water thanks to Clerics spamming create water all the time and it would be actually possible to catapult elite strike teams over castle walls if they had a caster amongst to cast feather fall before they landed.

So if you had to plan an assault on another kingdom, how would you go about it?

Fly + Displacement + Wand of Fireballs. Good bye army. Or Explosive Runes.

At lower levels you move from armies being made worthless by virtue of a single caster to armies being made less than useful by virtue of Fireball.

Casters are a better in combat asset in E6 than they are out of combat. They don't have any of the spells that help an army at level 6. Or they don't have enough castings to be a real help.

Now if you can get them making instant reset magic traps then they become useful out of combat.

[Vexxation]

Or Explosive Runes.

Yes. Excellent idea. You take a wizard, and powerlevel him or her to level 5. How? Well, even killing unarmed civilians gives *some* XP. So commit some atrocities. Whatever.

Every day, said wizard prepares explosive runes, and scrawls it out. Two years later, you send a "letterbomb" to every person in the opposing keep. BANG BANG BANG BANG- you get the picture.

[Emperor Tippy]

Yes. Excellent idea. You take a wizard, and powerlevel him or her to level 5. How? Well, even killing unarmed civilians gives *some* XP. So commit some atrocities. Whatever.

Every day, said wizard prepares explosive runes, and scrawls it out. Two years later, you send a "letterbomb" to every person in the opposing keep. BANG BANG BANG BANG- you get the picture.

Actually as sappers. At 16 Int a wizard gets 3/day. A sorcerer gets 4/day. After 10 days or so you have a book that deals 180d6 force damage in a 10 foot radius. That's an average of 630 damage. If you maximize 1/3 of those (Sudden Maximize) it's an average of 780 damage. If you are allowed flaws and take Arcane Thesis, Invisible Spell, and Cooperative spell then you can maximize all of your castings. In which case it's 1080 damage.

Invisibility+Fly+Dispel Magic.

Now there is a hole in the wall or the gate is gone.

If you can get Craft Contingent Spell then craft a contingent dispel magic on them and use them as catapult ammo.

[Oslecamo]

And who says the other side simply doesn't have commoners ordered to read all mail in an empty room before you reading it?

Anyway, lower soldiers are still important for

1-Feeding your monster allies.
2-Reading all letters.
3-Walking ahead of you to set up all the enemy nasty traps.
4-Give them robes and pointy hats and hope the enemy wizard thinks your commoners are wizards and wastes some spells on them.
5-Souls have their uses.
6-Certain powerfull rituals demand lots of assistants to get well done(cough red wizard cough)

EDIT:

Tippy:how exactly are you making sure your dispel magic fails?

[Vexxation]

And who says the other side simply doesn't have commoners ordered to read all mail in an empty room before you reading it?

Well, they're gonna be short a lot of commoners very quickly, then.
So, they stop accepting/sending mail? Start putting Explosive Runes of intercepted combat orders.

[Oslecamo]

Well, they're gonna be short a lot of commoners very quickly, then.
So, they stop accepting/sending mail? Start putting Explosive Runes of intercepted combat orders.

Bah, I'll go back to old good flag/smoke message system. Explosive rune that!

[Vexxation]

Bah, I'll go back to old good flag/smoke message system. Explosive rune that!

Wind Wall, Obscuring Mist, Fog Cloud.
MWAHAHAHA! Magic ruins everything.

[Emperor Tippy]

EDIT:

Tippy:how exactly are you making sure your dispel magic fails?

You can auto fail any check.

[Oslecamo]

Great, you've made a wall 50 foot long and 25 foot high.

Wich I could easily have ordered my experts to build out of wood.

And it would actually block everything, including enemy soldiers from passing by it.

Now make some reflex saves against my rain of catapult boulders/javelins.

At such low levels, all those spells simply don't last long enough or affect a big enough area to really make a diference. I can still easily overrun those spells with basic weapons and soldiers, or even use it to my advantage.

EDIT:Tippy:where's that rule?

[Vexxation]

At such low levels, all those spells simply don't last long enough or affect a big enough area to really make a diference. I can still easily overrun those spells with basic weapons and soldiers, or even use it to my advantage.

I meant that they could be used to screw up smoke signals. They're only effective in a siege for shutting down a portion of the battlefield or laying a trap within.

As for the battles, yeah. It's really more strength in numbers than anything at those levels. But cleverness can prevail. Like Tippy said, auto-reseting traps. Of, say, Grease, or Sleep, or even damaging spells could be devastating to an opposing army.

[Emperor Tippy]

Actually, the ideal situation (assuming that you aren't allowed to use magic traps) is one wizard leading a group of 20-30 fighter types with a few bards thrown in as well. For spells you want Invisibility Sphere, Stinking Cloud, and Fireball.

The wizard uses Invisibility Sphere to make his whole group invisible until they are in position, at which point they all ready actions to attack and the wizard casts Stinking Cloud followed by a Sudden Quickened, Sudden Maximized, Fireball. Most of the enemies are now dead and those that aren't are nauseated, which makes it easy for your soldiers to kill them.

Throw in a few wizards or use 3 Sorcerers, each knowing one of the 3 spells, and it becomes more repeatable.

[Oslecamo]

I meant that they could be used to screw up smoke signals. They're only effective in a siege for shutting down a portion of the battlefield or laying a trap within.

As for the battles, yeah. It's really more strength in numbers than anything at those levels. But cleverness can prevail. Like Tippy said, auto-reseting traps. Of, say, Grease, or Sleep, or even damaging spells could be devastating to an opposing army.

Untill my rogues get in position and sucessfully disarm your magic traps. For almost free. While your wizard had to spend several feats, experience and thousands of gold to build them.

Those thousands of gold probably would have been much better applied in massive amounts of basic material instead of traps that'll probably only catch one soldier or two.

[Vexxation]

Untill my rogues get in position and sucessfully disarm your magic traps. For almost free. While your wizard had to spend several feats, experience and thousands of gold to build them.

Those thousands of gold probably would have been much better applied in massive amounts of basic material instead of traps that'll probably only catch one soldier or two.

I'm sure I could counter the rogues, but then we'd just go back and forth all night one-upping until the absurdity was nigh-infinite.

I suppose that everything depends on the foe.
If you are fighting a BBEG warlord, it's a lot easier than taking on, say, Tippy at his Imperial Stronghold. Other factors are the level of magic, level of deific intervention, and amount of money each side has to start off with.

[Emperor Tippy]

Untill my rogues get in position and sucessfully disarm your magic traps. For almost free. While your wizard had to spend several feats, experience and thousands of gold to build them.

Those thousands of gold probably would have been much better applied in massive amounts of basic material instead of traps that'll probably only catch one soldier or two.

Who said anything about the traps catching enemies? And if you want to do that you make fireball cannons.

You make a trap of fly. Another trap of Heroism. Another one of Greater Magic Weapon. Another of Keen Edge. Another of False Life. Another of Blur. Another of Resist Energy (all types). Another of Enlarge Person. Another of Expeditious Retreat. Another of Mage Armor. Another of Shield. Another of Bear's Endurance. Another of Bull's Strength. Another of Cat's Grace. Another of Fox's Cunning. Another of Owl's Wisdom. Another of Silence. Another of Aid. Another of Delay Poison. Another of Shield of Faith. Another of Entropic Shield. Another of Divine Favor. Another of Deathwatch. Another of Arcane Sight. Another of Bless. Another of Detect Thoughts. Another of See Invisibility. Another of Protection from Arrows. Another of Protection from Evil (all alignments). Another of Alter Self. Another of Resistance.

And that's just for spells from the PHB.

You have all of your soldiers run through your traps (which are in wagons that are lined up end to end) and all the sudden your entire army is under the benefits of all of those spells. All the sudden they have become a threat.

[Oslecamo]

You have all of your soldiers run through your traps (which are in wagons that are lined up end to end) and all the sudden your entire army is under the benefits of all of those spells. All the sudden they have become a threat.

So all I need to make your economy colapse is some rogues with good diplomacy and bluff with some potions of gliberness back up? Sign me in!

Traps are ridiculously easy to destroy for their cost.

Not to mention the possibility of me capturing your wagons.

[Emperor Tippy]

So all I need to make your economy colapse is some rogues with good diplomacy and bluff with some potions of gliberness back up? Sign me in!

Traps are ridiculously easy to destroy for their cost.

Not to mention the possibility of me capturing your wagons.

Economy? This has nothing at all to do with the economy. These are just for the soldiers.

And how exactly are you doing so? To get around the Detect Thoughts that every single one of my soldiers has up requires a DC 100 Bluff check. Even with Glibness you fall far short of that mark. And if the guards can't read your mind (you're under the effects of nondetection or the like) then they just attack you.

The Silence effects prevent you from bluffing as well.

[Oslecamo]

Economy? This has nothing at all to do with the economy. These are just for the soldiers.

And how exactly are you doing so? To get around the Detect Thoughts that every single one of my soldiers has up requires a DC 100 Bluff check. Even with Glibness you fall far short of that mark. And if the guards can't read your mind (you're under the effects of nondetection or the like) then they just attack you.

The Silence effects prevent you from bluffing as well.

Hmm, forgery?

All wagons are to be deslocated to the hill to the north, with minimum escort

You know, if we have infinite money, may as well talk to my contruct army who doesn't need to sleep or breath or eat and also can't be fooled.

Or my massive undead army gotten from raiding giant's cemeteries.

It'll come up to wichever of us manages to spam more units to the battlefield, since teching up to the super nukes is out of question.

[chiasaur11]

Hmm, forgery?

All wagons are to be deslocated to the hill to the north, with minimum escort

You know, if we have infinite money, may as well talk to my contruct army who doesn't need to sleep or breath or eat and also can't be fooled.

It'll come up to wichever of us manages to spam more units to the battlefield, since teching up to the super nukes is out of question.

Tippy using...
paper?

I figured it'd be direct mindlink. Harder to subvert, quicker, more reliable.

[Stupendous_Man]

You have all of your soldiers run through your traps (which are in wagons that are lined up end to end) and all the sudden your entire army is under the benefits of all of those spells. All the sudden they have become a threat.

So it's a buffing sequence *and* an obstacle course...

[Oslecamo]

Tippy using...
paper?

I figured it'd be direct mindlink. Harder to subvert, quicker, more reliable.

I don't see any way you can make long distance mind links with just 3rd level spells.

[Fax Celestis]

I don't see any way you can make long distance mind links with just 3rd level spells.

Whispering Wind and a wand of Sending immediately spring to mind.

[Emperor Tippy]

I don't see any way you can make long distance mind links with just 3rd level spells.

First level Telepath power Mindlink. Getting line of effect could be tricky (I'm not sure if Ring Gates are an item that you can get in E6.

There is also Missive.

And a number of items that could do it. But again I'm not sure what item rules E6 uses.

[Triaxx]

Magic Missiles become man killers again. Especially if you slap them into wands, and maximized. Arm the front liners with them and UMD to use them.

Don't forget that you've got access to web, which can be lit up with flaming arrows. Also, Stinking Cloud.

[Kemper Boyd]

Eberron has a pretty decent description of how warfare would look.

[weenie]

The thing is that in E6 you're not going to have as many casters as in regular D&D. Also if you convert characters so that regular lvl20 equals E6 lvl6, you're not going to have that much lvl5+ wizards that could create all those wands of Fireball. Even lower level wizards are hard to come by, so it's risky to send them buff up the front lines. Item creation is rare and costly. There's no horde of zombies digging up gold all the time, thus wealth levels should be a lot lower. A typical army doesn't have enough money to buy armor for all infantry units, let alone buying them rings of detect thoughts..