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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Troll in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

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    Default Gestalt build challenge, The Straight

    I'm jealous of dspeyer's thread to some point, so I'll just copy-paste part of the rules :)

    I was toying around with Gestalt, when this idea occured to me. What could be the best straight-leveled gestalt build be? By straight-leveled, I mean 20 X/20 Y, you CAN take LA, but it would shut down an entire side. You can also skip levels, if you want a PrC after some point. So, here we go :)

    Old Rules as written by Duke
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    Unless otherwise specified in the specific challenge, the following rules and guidelines are always in effect:

    * Gestalt builds; 28-point buy; use any WOTC 3.5 product (including Dragon magazine) except where noted (only 3.0 products with an official upgrade to 3.5 are allowed)
    * Make all builds to ECL 20. However, indicate the minimum ECL the build is playable at (the level at which all LA and/or racial HD, if applicable, are accounted for) and label any level that indicates a "power break" where the build has a significant jump in power level. Provide a detailed description of how the build operates.
    * Any race with a listed level adjustment is allowed (no racial progressions from Savage Species, please). LA and HD each apply to one side of the gestalt; you may include LA and HD on the same side as each other, or on other sides. No LA buyoff. LA is applied before racial HD, which must be paid off before class levels on that side. Examples: LA X / RHD Y / class Z / ... // class A / ... -OR- LA X / class Y / ... // RHD A / class B / ...
    * Multiclass at will, but see "voting".
    * Up to two flaws are allowed, but see "voting".
    * Templates are allowed, but see "voting".
    * Voting: Upon the close of entries for each challenge, members of the forum may vote in-thread for the build that best represents the goals set out by the challenge. The voting criteria should consist of:
    o Functionality: How well does the build do in its primary role as specified in the challenge?
    o Weaknesses: Does the build have any glaring weaknesses that can be exploited?
    o Playability: How much of the 1-20 level range can the build be played at and be effective?
    o Creativity: Clever use of races, classes, and/or feats that may not be "typical" choices
    o Cheese: Minimizing the number of cheese points
    + Using flaws (1 point each)
    + Ignoring mutliclassing penalties -- some DMs actually do enforce this in gestalt (1 point each)
    + Single-level dips that would require several pages of justification to RP properly (1 point each)
    + Templates that would require several pages of justification to RP properly (1 point per +1 LA)
    + Attempting to use more than one PrC at any given level (1 point each)
    + Attempting to use "dual progression" PrCs (1,000,000 points each)
    + Over-dependence on items (1 point per indispensable item)
    + Over-dependence on Diplomacy or Use Magic Device skills (1,000,000 points each)

    Last edited by Eloel; 2008-11-28 at 01:37 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Gestalt build challenge, The Straight

    Wizard 20/Factotum 20, Grey Elf. Max out your int and take FoI for every single feat. The factotum gives you extra standard actions at level 8 and before that it lets you use your int for lots of other neat things.
    Last edited by Vortling; 2008-11-28 at 01:41 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
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    Emperor Tippy's Avatar

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    Default Re: Gestalt build challenge, The Straight

    Actually Wizard 20/Fighter 20 grey elf with FMI and turning all your feats into metamagic.

    Best melee would be Warblade 20/Factotum 20 grey elf using FMI and all the FoI you can cram in.

    Fighter 20/Factotum 20 with 13 FoI at level 20 is also nice. You're looking at around 100 IP.
    People who think Tippy equals win.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    Clearly, this is because Tippy equals Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunken Valley View Post
    Tippy=Win
    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    Wow... Tippy, you equal win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Immabozo View Post
    Tippy, I knew, in the back of my mind, that you would have the answer. Why? Cause you win. That's why.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf View Post
    Alright. I finally surrender. Tippy, you do in fact equal win. You have claimed the position of being my idol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Someone who shall remain anonymous
    This post contains 100% Tippy thought. May contain dangerous amounts of ludicrousness and/or awesomeness.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    JackMage666's Avatar

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    Default Re: Gestalt build challenge, The Straight

    Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is FoI?
    If there's a rule, there's someone out there trying to figure out how to get around it just to piss off his DM.

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    - The Jack-signal. Thanks Jokes!

    Avatar created by Yeril, who made it look awesome.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    MonkGirl

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    Default Re: Gestalt build challenge, The Straight

    Font of Inspiration I believe which allows you to use Factotum powers to the max.
    Minister of sarcasm and pragmatism of the Grayview fanclub.

    No, none of us were altering the unimutable laws of physics. That would be wrong.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Emperor Tippy's Avatar

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    Default Re: Gestalt build challenge, The Straight

    Quote Originally Posted by JackMage666 View Post
    Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is FoI?
    Font of Inspiration. Every time you take it you gain additional IP equal to 1+(The number of previous time's you have taken FoI).

    You can take it a number of times equal to your Int bonus (so 13 times at level 20 with max int and a +2 racial mod on it).
    People who think Tippy equals win.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    Clearly, this is because Tippy equals Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunken Valley View Post
    Tippy=Win
    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    Wow... Tippy, you equal win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Immabozo View Post
    Tippy, I knew, in the back of my mind, that you would have the answer. Why? Cause you win. That's why.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf View Post
    Alright. I finally surrender. Tippy, you do in fact equal win. You have claimed the position of being my idol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Someone who shall remain anonymous
    This post contains 100% Tippy thought. May contain dangerous amounts of ludicrousness and/or awesomeness.

  7. - Top - End - #7
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    dspeyer's Avatar

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    Default Re: Gestalt build challenge, The Straight

    Druid // Ninja
    Some velociraptors learn to open doors -- others learn to walk through walls.

    Wizard // Archivist
    It's a classic for a reason.

    Rogue // Warlock
    22d6 ranged touch against a flat-footed opponent, all day long.

    Barbarian // Swordsage
    Everything you could want in a melee character.

    Evolved Draconic Vampire
    LA // RHD
    How strong is too strong?

  8. - Top - End - #8
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    Belial_the_Leveler's Avatar

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    Default Re: Gestalt build challenge, The Straight

    Evolved, Feral, Unholy Vampire Lord // Sorceror

    400+ HP: check
    Strength 60: check
    Hide/move silently bonus of +49 while itemless: check
    undead immunities: check
    saves at +40: check
    ten 9th level spells/day: check


    If all you have is a hammer, don't be lazy; be a blacksmith and start making more stuff.

  9. - Top - End - #9
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    Flumph

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    Default Re: Gestalt build challenge, The Straight

    Black Ethergaunt Wizard 20? Casting as a 37th level Wizard, plus ungodly high Int (could be as high as 50) - that seems fairly effective. Plus you get some bonus features, like immunity to some spells and excellent vision.
    Last edited by icefractal; 2008-11-29 at 05:41 AM.

  10. - Top - End - #10
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    Hida Reju's Avatar

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    Default Re: Gestalt build challenge, The Straight

    My personal favorites are

    Human or Lesser Assimar
    Bard 20
    Warmage 20
    Nothing says love like bard defensive spells/enchantments, the swiss army attack spell list, Great skills, and Charisma Synergy.

    Next up is

    Azurin
    Incarnate 20
    Warblade 20
    I just love taking the power of Incarnum and adding ToB to it to make something just sick and wrong.
    Last edited by Hida Reju; 2008-11-29 at 06:26 AM.
    I must not fear.
    Fear is the mind-killer.
    Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
    I will face my fear.
    I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
    And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
    Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
    Only I will remain.

  11. - Top - End - #11
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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: Gestalt build challenge, The Straight

    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Tippy View Post
    Fighter 20/Factotum 20 with 13 FoI at level 20 is also nice. You're looking at around 100 IP.
    I wasn't aware you could take FoI as a fighter bonus feat, unless theres some other way you're planning on gaining those 6 extra feats (5 if you're human or strongheart halfling)?

  12. - Top - End - #12
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    Emperor Tippy's Avatar

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    Default Re: Gestalt build challenge, The Straight

    Quote Originally Posted by Aneantir View Post
    I wasn't aware you could take FoI as a fighter bonus feat, unless theres some other way you're planning on gaining those 6 extra feats (5 if you're human or strongheart halfling)?
    Chaos Shuffle.
    People who think Tippy equals win.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    Clearly, this is because Tippy equals Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunken Valley View Post
    Tippy=Win
    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    Wow... Tippy, you equal win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Immabozo View Post
    Tippy, I knew, in the back of my mind, that you would have the answer. Why? Cause you win. That's why.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf View Post
    Alright. I finally surrender. Tippy, you do in fact equal win. You have claimed the position of being my idol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Someone who shall remain anonymous
    This post contains 100% Tippy thought. May contain dangerous amounts of ludicrousness and/or awesomeness.

  13. - Top - End - #13
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    Ramza00's Avatar

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    Default Re: Gestalt build challenge, The Straight

    Artificer 20//Factotum 20

    Rules I don't need Rules.
    Stupendous Man drawn by Linklele

  14. - Top - End - #14
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    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: Gestalt build challenge, The Straight

    Quote Originally Posted by dspeyer View Post
    Barbarian // Swordsage
    Everything you could want in a melee character.
    Quoted for Truth. I did something similar (had Half Dragon (LA Buyoff) Lion totem Barb 8/Ftr 2/FB 10 // Ssage 20, and it is pure unrelenting WIN. The only bad side is the lack of Iron Heart Surge.
    Funny, I always figured I'd be killed by a paladin.
    So, what you're saying is we rolled a 1 on our credit check?

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  15. - Top - End - #15
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Gestalt build challenge, The Straight

    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Tippy View Post
    Chaos Shuffle.
    what is chaos shuffle.

    Also, from one of the earlier posts (the wizard/fighter suggestion), what is FMI?
    I'm try not to be too vain but this was too perfect not to sig.
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  16. - Top - End - #16
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    Draz74's Avatar

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    Default Re: Gestalt build challenge, The Straight

    Yeah, FoI I know well, but FMI has me stumped. I'm guessing the M is for Metamagic, though.

    I'd like to throw in a personal-favorite vote for no-equipment-necessary Gestalt combos that work great: Factotum//Psion with Vow of Poverty, and Totemist//Dragonfire Adept with Vow of Poverty.

    Other cool options that haven't been mentioned yet:

    Cleric//Druid (duh)
    Beguiler//Warblade (the ultimate swashbuckler)
    You can call me Draz.
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    Also of note:

    I have a number of ongoing projects that I manically jump between to spend my free time ... so don't be surprised when I post a lot about something for a few days, then burn out and abandon it.
    ... yes, I need to be tested for ADHD.

  17. - Top - End - #17
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    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Gestalt build challenge, The Straight

    Quote Originally Posted by Realms of Chaos View Post
    what is chaos shuffle.
    Using Embrace the Dark Chaos/Shun the Dark Chaos to rearrange your Feats.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Emperor Tippy's Avatar

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    Default Re: Gestalt build challenge, The Straight

    Quote Originally Posted by Realms of Chaos View Post
    what is chaos shuffle.
    Two spells.

    Embrace the Dark Chaos let's you turn any feat that the touched creature has into an Abyssal Heritor feat. Shun the Dark Chaos let's you turn any Abyssal Heritor feat that the touched creature has into any other feat that they currently qualify for.

    Elves gain four Martial Weapon Proficiency feats as one of their racial bonuses. Which can be converted into useful feats.

    Also, from one of the earlier posts (the wizard/fighter suggestion), what is FMI?
    Faerie Mysteries Initiate

    It let's you use Int to HP instead of Con to HP. Meaning that all the sudden the wizard is not so squishy (36 Int means that a level 20 wizard has an extra 260 HP). It is also very nice for factotums. And when combined with Grey Elves (you have to be an elf to qualify for FMI) it nicely offsets the Con penalty. Throw in Keen Intellect and Insightful Reflexes and you also have Int to Reflex and Will saves (plus a few wisdom based skills).

    Combine with Chaos Shuffle and a grey elf for what is effectively Int to Reflex saves, Int to Will saves, Int to HP, and a free bonus feat in addition to the other elf traits.
    People who think Tippy equals win.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    Clearly, this is because Tippy equals Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunken Valley View Post
    Tippy=Win
    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    Wow... Tippy, you equal win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Immabozo View Post
    Tippy, I knew, in the back of my mind, that you would have the answer. Why? Cause you win. That's why.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf View Post
    Alright. I finally surrender. Tippy, you do in fact equal win. You have claimed the position of being my idol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Someone who shall remain anonymous
    This post contains 100% Tippy thought. May contain dangerous amounts of ludicrousness and/or awesomeness.

  19. - Top - End - #19
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    Thurbane's Avatar

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    Default Re: Gestalt build challenge, The Straight

    Quote Originally Posted by JackMage666 View Post
    Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is FoI?
    It's a feat which only exists on the WotC website (i.e. never published in a book), and turns the Factotum from a decent class into OMFG who'd ever play a Rogue again?

    ...now where did I put those asbestos long johns again?

  20. - Top - End - #20
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    Animefunkmaster's Avatar

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    Default Re: Gestalt build challenge, The Straight

    Can I point out some cheesy abuses (Although I am not sure if they are alowed in the above rules, tldnr).

    Fighter1/archivist19//wizard 20

    full bab, dual casting, int based... whats not to like?

    Slyph +Outsider hd (up to 20)//Wizard or Druid 20

    (Slyph's racial gives sorcerer casting based on outsider hd and then some... Outsider hd is pretty good all by itself... this is more broken than abuse.)

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Gestalt build challenge, The Straight

    ive heard that archivist 20// artificer 20 was really good, but i havent gotten to try it. thats mostly because i havent had the chance to do a gestalt game yet.
    Last edited by Nohwl; 2008-11-29 at 11:15 PM.

  22. - Top - End - #22
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    monty's Avatar

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    Default Re: Gestalt build challenge, The Straight

    Druid 20. Who needs gestalt?
    My characters:
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    Sarah, human gestalt druid/totemist
    Adrian, human rogue
    Calypso, half-nymph human gestalt druid/miscellaneous


  23. - Top - End - #23
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Gestalt build challenge, The Straight

    No, no, no, my dear friend Monty.

    Druid 20/Cleric 20

    CoDzilla becomes CaDzilla.
    I'm try not to be too vain but this was too perfect not to sig.
    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Fury View Post
    okay RoC, that is enough! the gitp boards can only take so much awsome, you might actually hurt somebody with this one!
    At long last, I have an extended signature

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Devil

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    Default Re: Gestalt build challenge, The Straight

    Ferocity variant Barbarian 20// Binder 20 with animal devotion and travel devotion. Binding some combination of Paimon, Huares, Tenebrous, Andromalius, Marchosias, Focalor, or whomever. You're a strong, fast melee combatant that can plow through mooks, shoot lightning, command the undead, or do whatever else you decide is cool for the day. And if I remember correctly, unless specified as requiring concentration, you can use any supernatural ability while raging. Most of the binder's abilities do not specify.
    Last edited by mabriss lethe; 2008-11-30 at 03:42 PM.

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