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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    ElfRangerGuy

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    Default [3.5] Please Critique my Kobold Warlock

    So at our game this weekend, the guy who was supposed to be DMing couldn't make it because he got the flu. Fortunately, we had a few new people show up, and one of them offered to run an improv of one of his games for us. So, with zero notice, everybody had to make 6th level characters, and two thoughts ran through my head.

    1. "I've always wanted to play a warlock."
    2. "I wanna play an interesting race. Never played a kobold."

    Having never done this type of character before and having had to rush the character creation process, I wanted to get others' input on what I've done, and what I should do in the future if this game continues. So without further ado:

    Sythrax, Dragonwrought Kobold Warlock 6

    --Stats (rolled)--
    STR 3
    DEX 16 (20 with Gloves of Dex +4)
    CON 11
    INT 10
    WIS 13
    CHA 18

    --Feats--
    Dragonwrought (Black) - done mostly for Dragon type and +2 to Hide
    Flyby Attack - couldn't think of anything better
    Extra Invocation (Eldritch Spear) - see tactics below

    --Invocations--
    Darkness
    Devil's Sight
    Entropic Warding
    Fell Flight

    --Magic Items--
    Bag of Holding Type I (all characters got one for free)
    Vest of Resistance +4
    Hand of the Mage
    Gloves of Dex +4
    Ring of Evasion
    Cloak of Elvenkind
    Anklet of Translocation (from MIC)

    HP 24
    AC 17, touch 16, flat-footed 12
    Saves Fort 6, Reflex 11, Will 10 (thanks to Vest of Resistance)
    Tactics:
    Devil's Sight, Entropic Warding, and Fell Flight have 24 hour durations so are always on. Start combats with Darkness (or possible have it up already, depending on location) which I can see through but gives others a 20% miss chance to hit me in melee. Attacks from range always miss thanks to Entropic Warding, unless they're AoEs, but Vest of Resistance and Ring of Evasion help with those. Additionally, Fell Flight should keep me out of melee most of the time, allowing me to ping away with my Eldritch Blast. Eldritch Spear, while not optimal in dungeon environments, ensures that I never have to be near what I'm attacking, which is good.

    I can also Hide within the Darkness, as even with no ranks in Hide (being cross-class for Warlocks) I have a +16 to my roll (+5 from Dex, +2 racial, +4 size, and +5 from Cloak of Elvenkind). Even better, I can apparently do this even in mid-air out in the open, unless I am misunderstanding the rules for Hide stating that it only requires concealment.

    Other:
    I wanted to get the Invocation that gives you shatter at will, but I couldn't fit it in. Anyway, other people in the party can break stuff if need be. After a battle against some well-equipped foes in a tavern, I scored some Boots of Speed and enough cash for a Wand of Enervation, which seemed to be the best spell to add to my arsenal, giving me something to do besides Eldritch Blast. Thanks to my ranks in UMD and high Charisma, and the Warlock's ability to take 10 on all UMD checks, I can auto-succeed wand activation checks.

    Personality:
    Very selfish and arrogant (almost dragon-like). Will attack (from safety) anyone who challenges him because he considers it a personal affront. Has a very "keep what you kill" mentality, and will stop to loot a corpse mid-battle unless he is still in danger personally. Also, he will not let anyone loot "his" bodies until he's taken everything that he wants from them, but he doesn't mind the others picking through his leftovers. Even if he only got the finishing shot and everyone else did most of the work (which actually happened already). That being said, he is mainly looking for the golds and the shinies. Another player made a Gnome Cleric, and already we are butting heads.

    Well, comments? Suggestions? Future suggestions? Any thoughts at all? Thanks!
    "Nothing you can't spell will ever work." - Will Rogers

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    Remember, Evil isn't "selfish". It's Evil. "Look out for number one" is a Neutral attitude. Evil looks out for number one while crushing number two.

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    Sstoopidtallkid's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] Please Critique my Kobold Warlock

    Shatter at-will is Baleful Utterance, in CArc.
    [/sarcasm]
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    Default Re: [3.5] Please Critique my Kobold Warlock

    Darkness and Devil's Sight not good. Replace with Baleful utterance and See the Unseen.
    Last edited by Stupendous_Man; 2008-11-30 at 11:25 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Please Critique my Kobold Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by KillianHawkeye View Post
    So at our game this weekend, the guy who was supposed to be DMing couldn't make it because he got the flu. Fortunately, we had a few new people show up, and one of them offered to run an improv of one of his games for us. So, with zero notice, everybody had to make 6th level characters, and two thoughts ran through my head.

    1. "I've always wanted to play a warlock."
    2. "I wanna play an interesting race. Never played a kobold."

    Having never done this type of character before and having had to rush the character creation process, I wanted to get others' input on what I've done, and what I should do in the future if this game continues. So without further ado:
    Laudable and commendable, good sir, but you have a few slight problems



    Tactics:
    Devil's Sight, Entropic Warding, and Fell Flight have 24 hour durations so are always on. Start combats with Darkness (or possible have it up already, depending on location) which I can see through but gives others a 20% miss chance to hit me in melee. Attacks from range always miss thanks to Entropic Warding, unless they're AoEs, but Vest of Resistance and Ring of Evasion help with those. Additionally, Fell Flight should keep me out of melee most of the time, allowing me to ping away with my Eldritch Blast. Eldritch Spear, while not optimal in dungeon environments, ensures that I never have to be near what I'm attacking, which is good.
    Not quite.

    Entropic Warding, as per pg 134 of Complete Arcane says it acts just like Entropic Shield, which means 20% miss chance. Since you already have that from Darkness, it's pointless.

    Second, you are correct, you do not suffer the 20% miss chance from Darkness. Your allies, on the other hand, do. Friendly Fire Isn't.

    I can also Hide within the Darkness, as even with no ranks in Hide (being cross-class for Warlocks) I have a +16 to my roll (+5 from Dex, +2 racial, +4 size, and +5 from Cloak of Elvenkind). Even better, I can apparently do this even in mid-air out in the open, unless I am misunderstanding the rules for Hide stating that it only requires concealment.
    You are correct that you can hide in concealment, but why bother when Walk Unseen is a Lesser Invocation you can pick up at 8th?

    Other:
    I wanted to get the Invocation that gives you shatter at will, but I couldn't fit it in. Anyway, other people in the party can break stuff if need be. After a battle against some well-equipped foes in a tavern, I scored some Boots of Speed and enough cash for a Wand of Enervation, which seemed to be the best spell to add to my arsenal, giving me something to do besides Eldritch Blast. Thanks to my ranks in UMD and high Charisma, and the Warlock's ability to take 10 on all UMD checks, I can auto-succeed wand activation checks.
    Shatter-at-will sounds fun, but pisses off your other players when you end up destroying valuable loot. There are a thousand-and-one uses for it which are perfectly valid, however there are also Wands of Shatter you can pick up fairly cheaply. As you said, it's impossible for you to fail on a UMD check to activate a wand.

    Personality:
    Very selfish and arrogant (almost dragon-like). Will attack (from safety) anyone who challenges him because he considers it a personal affront. Has a very "keep what you kill" mentality, and will stop to loot a corpse mid-battle unless he is still in danger personally. Also, he will not let anyone loot "his" bodies until he's taken everything that he wants from them, but he doesn't mind the others picking through his leftovers. Even if he only got the finishing shot and everyone else did most of the work (which actually happened already). That being said, he is mainly looking for the golds and the shinies. Another player made a Gnome Cleric, and already we are butting heads.

    Well, comments? Suggestions? Future suggestions? Any thoughts at all? Thanks!
    May I suggest casting Darkness around YOU rather than around them? That way, it doesn't get in the way, you get your concealment, and can ignore it anyways. That means you replace Entropic Shield with your shatter-at-will if you so choose and your combo will still work without hurting the party's overall efficency.
    Last edited by ShneekeyTheLost; 2008-11-30 at 11:36 PM.
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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5] Please Critique my Kobold Warlock

    Don't forget the Kobold web enhancement.

    The Slight Build ability allows you to count as one size smaller on opposed checks if favorable. So that +4 size just changed to +8, and you have a total of +20 to your Hide check.
    Last edited by Lert, A.; 2008-11-30 at 11:37 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Please Critique my Kobold Warlock

    I'll agree that Darkness + Devil's Sight is not worth it. Maybe if you got a lot more Invocations there would be room for it, but there are just way too many other Invocations to pick which are so much better than spending two to get one weak trick.

    Entropic Warding is even moot since you have Flyby Attack. You can get behind total cover, fly out and use Eldritch Blast, then fly back behind total cover. The only way anything could attack you would be with a readied action, which would only give them a single attack/spell rather than being able to full-attack you. Most opponents wouldn't even bother doing that, so everything will focus on other characters instead of you when you do that. Good tactics replaces the need for stacking miss chances, get invocations that are more useful since Entropic Warding is a waste if you never get attacked anyway. See the Unseen and Baleful Utterance are good to have.

    Dragonwrought is good, start out Venerable age to get +3 Int, Wis, and Cha with no penalties to your physical stats, according to the Kobold chapter of Races of the Dragon. Flyby Attack is superb, I already discussed that. Extra Invocation is a wasted feat, spend one of your invocations known on Eldritch Spear and forget about stacking miss chances that should never even be rolled in the first place. Take Ability Focus: Eldritch Blast, it will add +2 DC every time you use an Eldritch Essence with your Eldritch Blast. Get Beshadowed Blast and then Eldritch Chain, and spam Beshadowed Eldritch Chains every round to keep an entire encounter blinded.

    Whenever I've played in a game with a character who's as much a jerk as this character looks, we've just decided in-character that we don't want him traveling with us any more. They had to retire their big jerk of a character and roll something different that would get along better, otherwise they couldn't participate in the adventure.

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    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5] Please Critique my Kobold Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by KillianHawkeye View Post
    I have a +16 to my roll (+5 from Dex, +2 racial, +4 size, and +5 from Cloak of Elvenkind).
    I think you should check that size bonus. Kobolds are small giving only a +1 size bonus.
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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5] Please Critique my Kobold Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Kristoss View Post
    I think you should check that size bonus. Kobolds are small giving only a +1 size bonus.
    Nope.

    As I mentioned the bonus (with errata) is actually +8.

    You are thinking of the size bonus to AC which is +1. Size bonus to Hide for a small creature is +4. Unless it has the slight build trait (Kobolds do) in which they count as a Tiny creature in certain circumstances, Hide checks being one of them.

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    ElfRangerGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5] Please Critique my Kobold Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    Not quite.

    Entropic Warding, as per pg 134 of Complete Arcane says it acts just like Entropic Shield, which means 20% miss chance. Since you already have that from Darkness, it's pointless.
    Hmm... well that stinks. I guess I should have actually looked up entropic shield. Thanks for bringing this up! I'll see if I can get something else for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    You are correct that you can hide in concealment, but why bother when Walk Unseen is a Lesser Invocation you can pick up at 8th?
    Because I am only Level 6? Plus, see my comment on Darkness below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lert, A. View Post
    Don't forget the Kobold web enhancement.

    The Slight Build ability allows you to count as one size smaller on opposed checks if favorable. So that +4 size just changed to +8, and you have a total of +20 to your Hide check.
    Wow! I had no idea about this. Now my Hiding skills are even greater! (Dang, there really needs to be a 'maniacal laugh' smiley. )

    Quote Originally Posted by Biffoniacus_Furiou View Post
    I'll agree that Darkness + Devil's Sight is not worth it. Maybe if you got a lot more Invocations there would be room for it, but there are just way too many other Invocations to pick which are so much better than spending two to get one weak trick.
    I know that it's not the BEST combo, but I think I wanna stick with it. I mean, there aren't exactly a whole bunch of really good Least Invocations. And for one, the ability to ignore magical darkness is a very hard ability to get (only actual Devil's get it besides this AFAIK). And for the other, having Darkness at will pretty much eliminates my Light Sensitivity (unless the Devil's Sight screws that up), while making it harder for people to hit me. Since I can see through it, I might as well be packing my own Darkness. And plus, there's at least a little bit of a cool factor in there somewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Biffoniacus_Furiou View Post
    Whenever I've played in a game with a character who's as much a jerk as this character looks, we've just decided in-character that we don't want him traveling with us any more. They had to retire their big jerk of a character and roll something different that would get along better, otherwise they couldn't participate in the adventure.
    Well, this is kind of a different character for me, personality-wise. But there are usually a lot of pompous, arrogant, or bossy characters in my groups, so I don't think it will be a problem. And with me being a tiny, fragile little thing, perhaps I will have to learn to get along better in exchange for the good favor of my larger and stronger companions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stupendous_Man View Post
    Darkness and Devil's Sight not good. Replace with Baleful utterance and See the Unseen.
    Since it looks like I will be getting rid of Entropic Warding (and keeping Darkness and Devil's Sight), which of these do you recommend? Both could certainly be useful...
    "Nothing you can't spell will ever work." - Will Rogers

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krellen View Post
    Remember, Evil isn't "selfish". It's Evil. "Look out for number one" is a Neutral attitude. Evil looks out for number one while crushing number two.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Please Critique my Kobold Warlock

    Well, Baleful Utterance (shatter at wil) means never being able to be chained up. It also means a thousand and one yuks in non-combat situations.

    See the Unseen kind of has overlap with Devil's Sight, which makes it sub-optimal if you are wanting to retain the Devil's Sight/Darkness combo. The only thing See the Unseen gives you is See Invisible as an always on effect. Handy, but there are other ways to do this, particularly with your ability to UMD.

    OR

    Shatter wands aren't too expensive. You can UMD a wand without risking failure. So, since you can easily duplicate this, grab Se the Unseen for always-on See Invisible.

    Really, it's up to you, since it's your character. These are probably your two best choices to replace Entropic Shield with.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Please Critique my Kobold Warlock

    Yeah, come to think of it, I'm thinking Baleful Utterance will be more fun for the noncombat uses. That and the fact that my Spot and Listen are so low, I probably wouldn't see the invisible creature even with See the Unseen.

    Yeah, I'm picturing it now. "101 ways to torment the Gnomish Cleric", starring Baleful Utterance. Mwa ha ha haha!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krellen View Post
    Remember, Evil isn't "selfish". It's Evil. "Look out for number one" is a Neutral attitude. Evil looks out for number one while crushing number two.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Please Critique my Kobold Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by KillianHawkeye View Post
    Yeah, come to think of it, I'm thinking Baleful Utterance will be more fun for the noncombat uses. That and the fact that my Spot and Listen are so low, I probably wouldn't see the invisible creature even with See the Unseen.

    Yeah, I'm picturing it now. "101 ways to torment the Gnomish Cleric", starring Baleful Utterance. Mwa ha ha haha!!
    Summon Swarm is the other very good Least invocation, which, come to think of it, also has some interesting noncombat uses to torment the gnome with. However, I think you've made a good choice, young padawan.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Please Critique my Kobold Warlock

    Baleful Utterance may seem cool, but really... there is a reason Shatter is a low level spell. If you want to sunder armor, it has to weigh your level in pounds or less. That isn't gonna happen. You won't be breaking down any doors, with it either.

    Instead of Baleful Utterance, I suggest going for Hammer Blast. You've got an amazing To-Hit, and you'll be doing a full Xd6 damage. You can bust walls from 250 feet away, man! That's pretty cool. Now, Shatter does have better damage to crystalline creatures than Hammer Blast ever could, but I promise it'll be easier to hit the bugger's touch AC than it would be to have a Fort DC high enough that it'd fail. (They've got ridiculous Constitution.)

    That's my two sense.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Please Critique my Kobold Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Burley Warlock View Post
    Baleful Utterance may seem cool, but really... there is a reason Shatter is a low level spell. If you want to sunder armor, it has to weigh your level in pounds or less. That isn't gonna happen. You won't be breaking down any doors, with it either.

    Instead of Baleful Utterance, I suggest going for Hammer Blast. You've got an amazing To-Hit, and you'll be doing a full Xd6 damage. You can bust walls from 250 feet away, man! That's pretty cool. Now, Shatter does have better damage to crystalline creatures than Hammer Blast ever could, but I promise it'll be easier to hit the bugger's touch AC than it would be to have a Fort DC high enough that it'd fail. (They've got ridiculous Constitution.)

    That's my two sense.
    He's wanting Baleful Utterance more for annoyance value than anything else. Hammer Blast can't hit armor anyways, and why destroy loot anyways?

    Crystalline creatures HAVE NO CON SCORE, and generally speaking, constructs have a poor Fort save (because they're IMMUNE to almost everything with a Fort save anyways), so it's rediculously easy to land a shatter on one.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Please Critique my Kobold Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Burley Warlock View Post
    Baleful Utterance may seem cool, but really... there is a reason Shatter is a low level spell. If you want to sunder armor, it has to weigh your level in pounds or less. That isn't gonna happen. You won't be breaking down any doors, with it either.

    Instead of Baleful Utterance, I suggest going for Hammer Blast. You've got an amazing To-Hit, and you'll be doing a full Xd6 damage. You can bust walls from 250 feet away, man! That's pretty cool. Now, Shatter does have better damage to crystalline creatures than Hammer Blast ever could, but I promise it'll be easier to hit the bugger's touch AC than it would be to have a Fort DC high enough that it'd fail. (They've got ridiculous Constitution.)

    That's my two sense.
    Actually, that's just the area version. The targeted version can affect an object weighing up to 10 lbs. per caster level.

    I think the area version has the best annoyance factor. Standing by a mirror or window? Check. Walking past a shelf full of potions? Double check. And I don't really need to be 250 feet away for that. Even in combat, I figure I'll use it for defense rather than offense. Shatter the attacker's weapon, then EB them to pieces.

    Any suggestions on a feat to replace Flyby Attack? I really don't like that I couldn't wait to find something better, especially with only a 30-ft. fly speed.
    "Nothing you can't spell will ever work." - Will Rogers

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krellen View Post
    Remember, Evil isn't "selfish". It's Evil. "Look out for number one" is a Neutral attitude. Evil looks out for number one while crushing number two.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Please Critique my Kobold Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Burley Warlock View Post
    Baleful Utterance may seem cool, but really... there is a reason Shatter is a low level spell. If you want to sunder armor, it has to weigh your level in pounds or less. That isn't gonna happen. You won't be breaking down any doors, with it either.
    Actually, according to the Sundering rules, you can't sunder armor if it is being worn.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Please Critique my Kobold Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by graymachine View Post
    Actually, according to the Sundering rules, you can't sunder armor if it is being worn.
    It's not sundering, it's shattering. With magic.

    Okay, I just ran across the Warlock ACF in Drow of the Underdark. It starts at 8th level, and you have to give up your fiendish fast healing thingie, but your blood becomes venomous and you can eventually apply the poison to your EBs. Unfortunately, the poison is otherwise only affective on things THAT TRY TO EAT YOU.

    Now, maybe that just SEEMS awesome to me. What do y'all think? Is it a good trade-off? Granted that I probably won't get much healing from the party's Cleric (being a Gnome), but I've befriended the Druid, and there's a couple others who might spare a little healing. The fast healing I'd normally get is pretty weak, and only once per day, so I don't think I'd be missing much by losing it.

    Maybe I can see about scoring a wand of CLW...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krellen View Post
    Remember, Evil isn't "selfish". It's Evil. "Look out for number one" is a Neutral attitude. Evil looks out for number one while crushing number two.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Please Critique my Kobold Warlock

    Don't forget to pick up a L1 sorcerer spell 1/day as a spell like abilty (page 43 RotD)

    Draconic rite of passage : sacrifice a gem (100gp) and 1 hp, make a DC10 concentration check.

    spend 15 minutes 1/day to recharge the spell like ability.

    Draconic reservoir (feat) (pre-req: 3 hd & Draconic rite of passage) increases the spell like ability to 3/day.

    consider taking a 1 level dip of sorcerer and get a 2nd for free: Greater draconic rite of passage gives a free level of sorcerer for 1000gp and a dc 20 concentration check. (prerequisite: Draconic reservoir & 6 HD)
    Doug

    Currently GMing :
    Moonshae Mysteries IC / OOC / Central Map / west rooms map / east rooms map
    Moonshae Tales IC / OOC / Map
    Map of Area

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