Sell me on SW Saga Edition

[archmage45]

Ok, so I own the d6 version of Star Wars, and the d20 version, and the d20 revised core book, and while I have no active group, I am a sucker for RPG rule books.

Tell me why I should or should not go for Saga!

[NPCMook]

Updated Rules, content for all 6 movies, easier encounter building.

[Mando Knight]

Better balance between Force/Not-Force, campaign guide support for KOTOR and The Force Unleashed (soon also the Clone Wars and Legacy), played often on our PbP forums...

[ShneekeyTheLost]

You have a extremely flexable set of core classes, with a number of abilities to choose from periodically rather than set in stone abilities. This means you can make a character to fit almost any archetype MUCH easier than in previous editions. It's much like Diablo 2's skill tree, only even more flexable, because very few things actually have prerequsites, and they do because they're that nifty.

Jedi are not gods! They are powerful, yes, but so is everything else. Also, there are clear deleniations on what force powers can and cannot affect, and which force powers are automatically dark-side, and why. It actually makes SENSE why Force Lightning is now a dark-side ability, when you read the description of what you are actually doing.

A reasonabally built Soldier with a heavy repeating blaster is a very scary thing, even to a Jedi, particularly if he takes the feats that let him convert his attacks into 'area effect' which a Jedi then CANNOT DEFLECT (although it does somewhat reduce overall damage output if it is targeting a single individual).

Crits HURT. Saga is at the same time harder to get killed in, and easier. Crits go straight to wound poiints, and you only have as many wound points as your Con stat. Period. Considering that blaster I mentioned is throwing out some 4d6 multiple times, you can see that this is extremely lethal. However, I can't think offhand of anything that increases crit chance, so only crits on a nat 20. This also has the added benefit of portraying the fact that you simply cannot have one jedi against a couple hundred mooks. Stastically, ONE of them is going to crit, and you may get lucky and confirm it and take the jedi out.

[Attilargh]

The Saga book is a nine-and-a-quarter inch square.

Crits go straight to wound poiints, and you only have as many wound points as your Con stat. Period.

...That's Revised edition.

[Mushroom Ninja]

I've played Saga Edition since its release a couple years back. Overall, I've found it very enjoyable. Compared to Revised Edition there are some marked improvements:

- Force Powers are accessible to all classes: Force powers are, in general, more accessible for everyone. You have to burn a few feats to get them, but they're worth it.
-Class Balance: Although still arguably the best class, Jedi don't completely overshine non-Jedi.
- HP System: The VP/WP system has been replaced by the HP & Condition track system. This means your 8 Con character doesn't get one-shotted every other fight.
-Squares: The books are Squares now. OMGWTFBBQSWEET?

Some things have not improved:
-Space Combat: In revised edition, it was far too complex, but in Saga, it's really, really boring.
-Dying: It's really, really hard to do. I've not seen a PC do it yet. While in Revised you'd see PCs falling like flies, you never see them go in Saga.

Overall, it's a fun system.

[Mando Knight]

I've played Saga Edition since its release a couple years back.

You're not the one who traded me the Machop From The Future a few months back, are you? One and a half years doesn't qualify as "a couple" in my book...

The only systems I've played are KotOR's d20 variant and SAGA, so I've got no idea on how space combat worked then...

[NPCMook]

-Dying: It's really, really hard to do. I've not seen a PC do it yet. While in Revised you'd see PCs falling like flies, you never see them go in Saga.

Overall, it's a fun system.

Dying is actually quite easy in the first game I ran one of the players got AoO'd and died, in a single attack

He had 28 HP, and the Stormtrooper critted him for 30 damage beating his DT, and thus killing him in a single shot...

[Mushroom Ninja]

@Mando Knight:
Bah! You and your facts!

By the way, what's the "Machop from the future?"

@NPCMook:
The force points usually help keep the PCs alive in situations like that.

[Kiero]

It's significantly better than any previous D20 incarnation (in terms of actually trying to be like Star Wars, and not being "D&D-in-space"). Jedi characters are well (alright much better than RCR) balanced against non-Jedi. PCs are properly modular, and there's a lot of variety in what you can do.

However NPCs are a pain to make, since you have to run through all the same stuff a PC would, if you don't have one of the pre-made templates to fit. I've heard lots of people say it could do with the same kind of simple rules D&D 4e has for this sort of thing.

[TheThan]

However NPCs are a pain to make, since you have to run through all the same stuff a PC would, if you don't have one of the pre-made templates to fit. I've heard lots of people say it could do with the same kind of simple rules D&D 4e has for this sort of thing.

yeah, but at the same time, character generation is much easier and faster than it is in the old rulebooks, so making NPCs is not as difficult or time consuming as it used to be. so its not as much as a pain as making an npc in the old rules.

[Mando Knight]

By the way, what's the "Machop from the future?"

...Actually, it was a Machoke... I just typed in the wrong name before...

It was a Machoke that I got over the GTS a while back that had a capture date that was several months later than the day I got it. It promptly evolved into a Machamp.

...On another note, get the campaign books and Threats of the Galaxy, too. Threats is essentially SAGA's Monster Manual, and the Campaign Guides provide options such as a talent tree that makes a Jetpack trooper a viable build... as well as providing extra force powers and equipment.

[Kiero]

yeah, but at the same time, character generation is much easier and faster than it is in the old rulebooks, so making NPCs is not as difficult or time consuming as it used to be. so its not as much as a pain as making an npc in the old rules.

Getting hold of that spreadsheet that's floating around to do it saves even more time.

[Attilargh]

...On another note, get the campaign books and Threats of the Galaxy, too. Threats is essentially SAGA's Monster Manual, and the Campaign Guides provide options such as a talent tree that makes a Jetpack trooper a viable build... as well as providing extra force powers and equipment.

Speaking of those, there's one thing that's been bugging me about Saga Edition: They don't proofread the statblocks properly. I've heard the blocks in Threats contain some rather glaring errors (like a droid with the feat Shake It Off), and have personally found a couple of goofs in my KotOR Campaign Guide.

[Mushroom Ninja]

The Campaign Guide books are excellent, including many new talents, feats, and force powers.

Threats to the Galaxy is nice if you need a NPC with no prep time.

Starships of the Galaxy tries to spice up the space combat system, but doesn't do an excellent job of it IMHO.

[archmage45]

Ok... I'm sold. Now just need to convince the significant other that I need yet another rule book (or 3) on my shelf, for yet another game I'm not playing.

Any thoughts on that?

Thanks all!

[Kiero]

Ok... I'm sold. Now just need to convince the significant other that I need yet another rule book (or 3) on my shelf, for yet another game I'm not playing.

Any thoughts on that?

Thanks all!

In all honesty, if you don't think you're ever going to play it, don't bother. Surely there must be better things you can spend your money on?

[Kizara]

Really, a simple way of looking at it is:

Do you like 3.5 ed, sans a few of the more extreme problems? Likewise, did you really like RCE or did you just use it because it was the best you had?

Do you feel RCE has many balance problems that you had a hard time dealing with after a few house rules (give Force Grip a range, etc)?

Do you like 4e, the style and nature of its mechanics and conventions, and the general move towards balance and simplification?

Do you mind more humogonized (sp) classes in the pursuit of greater balance and modularity?


If you answered "No" to Q1 and 4 "Yes" to the other ones, then you would likely enjoy SAGA.

[archmage45]

In all honesty, if you don't think you're ever going to play it, don't bother. Surely there must be better things you can spend your money on?

Probably, but I still enjoy reading RPG books.

Really, a simple way of looking at it is:

Do you like 3.5 ed, sans a few of the more extreme problems? Likewise, did you really like RCE or did you just use it because it was the best you had?

Yes, but mostly because I never had groups interested in major optimization. RCE just because that's what the group wanted to play.

Do you feel RCE has many balance problems that you had a hard time dealing with after a few house rules (give Force Grip a range, etc)?

Again, not a group big on optimization, but I did have to house rule a few things.

Do you like 4e, the style and nature of its mechanics and conventions, and the general move towards balance and simplification?

I haven't played it yet, but yes, I have enjoyed the changes I've read.

Do you mind more humogonized (sp) classes in the pursuit of greater balance and modularity?

Don't mind it at all.

If you answered "No" to Q1 and 4 "Yes" to the other ones, then you would likely enjoy SAGA.

Thanks!

[Kizara]

NP.

Btw, your avatar picture is broken.