Phoenix Sorcerer Options

[Primal Fury]

I've decided to make a new character. A sorcerer to be precise, and I'd like him to be focused on gaining abilities that have to do with the Phoenix, mostly because he believes he's descended from it (much the same way other sorcerers believe they're descended from dragons.)

Thing is I'm not sure how to go about it. I know he'd heavy focus on fire spells, maybe even a phoelarch familiar (with the improved familiar feat of course) but that's all I've got right now. The only options I see are feat and spell choice. I'm trying to avoid LA completely.

Does anyone have any advice that can help me?

[Keld Denar]

Do you have access to Tome of Battle? Cause something like a Swordsage1/Sorcerer6/Jade Phoenix Mage10/XXX would be kind of cool. Lots of Phoenix flavor there, especially the capstone which allows you to immolate yourself in a fiery explosion and then become reborn. Neato class, and suficiently strong mechanics wise.

[Iku Rex]

Books available?

Do you expect to go all the way from level 1 to level 20?

[Primal Fury]

Sorry. Should have been more specific.

While the Jade Phoenix Mage is very cool, I'd like to stray away from multiclassing. I haven't done that very well in the past. And he's going to be a pure caster anyway. I'm thinking about taking the wild-mage PrC, though I'm not sure what that has to do with the phoenix . And would a phoelarch be an acceptable familiar? I'm asking for my own sake since my DM is INCREDIBLY leniant (sp?). Gotta keep it balanced.

And I do have a fairly large selection of books, so if you suggest it, I'll probably be able to find it.

[jcsw]

Learn the spell Pheonix Fire from the Book of Exalted Deeds, if only for the effect (cause it's wasted as a sorc spell - you'd cast this... max twice ever.)

It kills you and damages all nearby evil (2d6/CL) and neutral (1d6/CL) creatures. You then ressurect in 10 minutes, losing the level as normal.

Fun fact: While it's implied that you have to be good to cast it, no where is it ever stated that you do.

[RTGoodman]

Well, considering Phoelarches are sentient Monstrous Humanoids, I personally wouldn't allow them as familiars. (There is precedent for familiars of human-level intelligence, like Worgs or Pseudodragons, but I think Monstrous Humanoid, especially a CR 6 one, is a little much.)

On the other hand, I MIGHT allow a Phoera as a familiar, provided the Sorcerer/Wizard took the Improved Familiar feat and was at least 7th-9th level.

Personally, I still think Jade Phoenix Mage that Keld Denar mentioned would be the way I'd go, but if you wanted to go straight Sorcerer you should look up the Arcane Disciple feat for some related domains (Fire and/or Healing) and maybe consider the Rainbow Servant PrC from Complete Divine. It's basically a PrC where you get closer to one specific creature (the Couatl), so you could probably re-fluff it to make it the Phoenix Servant or something like that (especially if your DM will allow it to give FULL casting advancement, as per the text, rather than 6/10 advancement as per the table).

[Primal Fury]

AH! Thank you rtg. Of course y'all know I MEANT the phoera, I just got them mixed up.

I'll go take a look at the Rainbow Servant right now and see what I think. Thanks a million

[SoD]

You could play a fire elf, or a fire mephling, to further show the fire based genetics.

[Primal Fury]

Thanks SoD, but I think a half-fire elf would be best. That -2 to charisma isn't good for a sorcerer.

And after a few tweaks to the rainbow servant (access to the fire domain rather than law, and fewer alignment restrictions) it should work quite well.

One question though. Would it be reasonable to give them a different capstone other than detect thoughts? I was thinking more like the Jade Phoenix Mage's capstone. Explosion, then come back from ashes fully healed without level drain. Thoughts?

EDIT: And maybe Healing rather than the Air domain too. Hm.

[Kizara]

Detect Thoughts is beyond idiotic as a capstone for a 10-level PrC, especially a full-casting one.

I think your idea for a capstone (explosion (keep the damage reasonable), come back fully healed a couple rounds later, no loss) is viable for the level we are talking about here (17ish? I'm AFB).

If a PrC capstone is not abtainable (without considerable silliness) until end levels (18-20), it should be balanced against the better 9th-level spells. In other words, it should be incredibly powerful and useful. If things like Foresight, Gate, Shapechange, etc are your balance references, you can go pretty crazy.

(Note that I have nerfed or removed many 9th level spells, like Time Stop (removed, made Epic), and Shapechange (considerable nerf) and I believe you or your DM should too if you want to take my PrC balancing advice seriously.)

[Primal Fury]

Oh! Oh oh oh! Got it! Phoenix Fire! 2d6 damage per (new class name) level in a 30-foot-high, 60-foot-radius (half of which is fire, other half divine). Not only do you come back fully healed in a few rounds, BUT! All allies within range are fully healed of all damage and malladies (except for DM made plot devices of course ).

Very Phoenix-y

[Kizara]

Oh! Oh oh oh! Got it! Phoenix Fire! 2d6 damage per (new class name) level in a 30-foot-high, 60-foot-radius (half of which is fire, other half divine). Not only do you come back fully healed in a few rounds, BUT! All allies within range are fully healed of all damage and malladies (except for DM made plot devices of course ).

Very Phoenix-y

Even with the standard I set, that's too much.


Maybe if you lost 2 levels doing it, I'd consider it.

20d6 damage (half divine) in a large column, "fully healed" for yourself and all allies is stupidly amazing and thus imba.

A toned-down version:

1) You erupt in a flamming inferno of cascading red and orange, dealing 20d6 damage level in a 30-foot-high, 60-foot-radius (half of which is fire, other half divine). (since you have to be level 10 in the PrC to gain this capstone, making it a damage/level effect is completely pointless).

2) Make a DC 35 Will, followed by a DC 30 Fortitude save. Failure means you are now dead, leaving behind a fine mist of ash where you exploded (enough for Ressurection).

3) If you make the save, you return in 2 rounds after you exploded, acting on that round. You gain the benefits of the heal and restoration spells.

4) Your allies within 60ft of the original effect (note that your original explosion could damage them, so they would have to have 'taken it' or moved closer in the mean time) gain the benefits of a cure serious wounds and lesser restoration spells.


The delay, combined with having to make 2 saves versus death make the effect more reasonable, even at this power level. (note that those saves aren't that high at this level, and especially if you gear or buff your saves before hand, should be almost-gimmes.)

[RTGoodman]

Detect Thoughts is beyond idiotic as a capstone for a 10-level PrC, especially a full-casting one.

Well, I think the REAL capstone is, uh, access to the whole Cleric spell list, NOT detect thoughts. For this, I'd probably drop the Cleric spell access for just the immolation ability (based on the Jade Phoenix Mage's, but with healing allies instead of banishing outsiders). It doesn't COMPLETELY heal allies, though, so it's not AS strong as Primal Fury originally suggested.

Something like this:

Scion of the Phoenix

HD: d4
Skills: As Rainbow Servant

Requirements:
Alignment: Any good
Skill: Knowledge (Arcana) 4 ranks
Spells: Able to cast 3rd-level arcane spells
Special: Must have some connection to the phoenix, either through seeing one or having an ancestral link to one.


{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special | Spellcasting
1 | +0 | +0 | +0 | +2 | Fire Resistance, extra domain (Fire) | +1 level of arcane spellcasting class
2 | +1 | +0 | +0 | +3 | -- | +1 level of arcane spellcasting class
3 | +1 | +1 | +1 | +3 | -- | +1 level of arcane spellcasting class
4 | +2 | +1 | +1 | +4 | Extra domain (Healing); phoenix wings | +1 level of arcane spellcasting class
5 | +2 | +1 | +1 | +4 | -- | +1 level of arcane spellcasting class
6 | +3 | +2 | +2 | +5 | -- | +1 level of arcane spellcasting class
7 | +3 | +2 | +2 | +5 | Detect evil; extra domain (Good) | +1 level of arcane spellcasting class
8 | +4 | +2 | +2 | +6 | -- | +1 level of arcane spellcasting class
9 | +4 | +3 | +3 | +6 | -- | +1 level of arcane spellcasting class
10 | +5 | +3 | +3 | +7 | Immolation | +1 level of arcane spellcasting class[/table]

Class Features:
Spellcasting: At each level, a Scion of Phoenix gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had gained a level in whatever arcane spellcasting class he belonged to previously. (Blah, blah, blah, insert the rest of the standard casting PrC stuff.)

Fire Resistance (Su): At 1st level, a Scion of the Phoenix gains resistance to the fires he adeptly wields. He gains resistance to fire equal to 5 + his class level.

Extra Domain: At each level indicated, the Scion of the Phoenix gains access to the granted power and spells of a certain domain (Fire at 1st level, Healing at 4th level, and Good at 7th level). For information on how a non-Cleric receives domain spells, see pg. 20 of the Complete Divine supplement.

Phoenix Wings (Su): Beginning at 4th level, a Scion of the Phoenix can focus his energy to summon a pair of great fiery wings. As a standard action, he can grow or retract these wings, which grant a fly speed of 60 feet with good maneuverability. These wings can function for up to 1 hour per class level, divided up as the Scion chooses. Restrictive clothing and armor of any type prevents the wings from growing, and a Scion cannot summon the wings while grappling.

Detect Evil (Sp): Beginning at 7th level, a Scion of the Phoenix can use detect evil, as the spell, at will.

Holy Immolation (Su): Beginning at 10th level, once per week a Scion of the Phoenix can imitate the iconic power of his namesake and immolate himself in a towering inferno. As a standard action, you explode in a searing blast of white-hot flame that deals 20d6 damage to each enemy in a 30-foot radius. Creatures are entitles to a Reflex saving throw with a DC equal to 19 + your primary spellcasting ability modifier (Int for Wizards, Cha for Sorcerers, etc.) for half damage. Half of the damage is fire damage, but the rest is raw (untyped) divine damage. Allies within the area gain hit point equal to one-half the damage done and automatically overcome the following conditions: blindness, deafness, disease (but not supernatural disease), fear effects, paralysis, or poison.

The blast utterly destroys you, but 1d6 rounds later you appear in the exact same location, healed of all damage, including ability damage, ability drain, blindness, deafness, disease (but not supernatural disease), paralysis, or poison. Any equipment you were carrying or holding re-forms with you, exactly as it was.

__________________________

How's that look?

[Kizara]

I suggest much harsher pre-reqs or losing 2 casting levels over the progression (one at level 1 or 2). Right now its a something-for-nothing PrC, and those are generally overpowered.

[Talic]

Wizard 5 / Elemental Savant 10 / Archmage 5

Fire.
Flight.
Resurr... did I mention fire? Use illusions to make you look like you died and came back.

[RTGoodman]

I suggest much harsher pre-reqs or losing 2 casting levels over the progression (one at level 1 or 2). Right now its a something-for-nothing PrC, and those are generally overpowered.

Yeah, I was going to go with harsher pre-reqs, but I couldn't think of any. (Not having the MM2 has a bit to do with that.) Suggestions?

If we can't think of anything, then just skip spellcasting progression at either 1st and 6th level, or at 5th and 10th level.

[KKL]

A Weakness to water could be a good downside. And not a piddling one either. A modest one that could ruin your day.

[jcsw]

I suggest much harsher pre-reqs or losing 2 casting levels over the progression (one at level 1 or 2). Right now its a something-for-nothing PrC, and those are generally overpowered.

You mean like half the wizard PrCs?

[Kizara]

You mean like half the wizard PrCs?

Yes.

yter63576357

[Rad]

I'd ask for some feat prerequisites. Like Spell Focus [Good] and the fire reserve feat (Complete Mage).

If we are in homebrew territory I'd rather represent the whole thing with heritage feats though., using red dragon as a guideline and maybe throwing in some healing stuff among the bonus spells known.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Switch the Healing domain with the Renewal domain on the Rainbow Servant adaptation. It makes a lot more sense considering the rebirth mechanics of a Phoenix.

[Primal Fury]

You are right Biff. That would make more sense... But why is charm person, of all things, the first spell on that list? Everything else makes sense, especially the domain power, just not that.

I knew it was overpowered kizara, I just prefer to work down from something than work up to something. And I especially like what you did with the Fire domain and fire resistance rtg, and holy immolation is awesome, but would they be able to keep the access to cleric spells? Access to so many spells would prove beneficial to a sorcerer.

And I think lost caster levels should occur when they gain access to a new domain (and possibly at 10th level if they retain access to cleric spells.) Now I don't know what wizard would do, but a sorcerer could just exchange some of his other spells known for the domain spells anyway, right?