Getting Class Skills

[mikeejimbo]

Is there a way to get a skill added to your class skill list permanently, preferably without having to deviate from your current class? Seems like it'd be a good thing for a feat to do. Basically, I have an idea for a character concept, but don't want to waste precious skill points. (Unless feats are MORE precious.)

[Primal Fury]

Well, I do have a feat in mind, namely able learner. It adds all skills as class skills, but only if your character is a human or doppleganger.

[mabriss lethe]

Well, I do have a feat in mind, namely able learner. It adds all skills as class skills, but only if your character is a human or doppleganger.

not exactly. You're still limited by the cross-class skill cap, but it only takes in skill point to raise a cross class skill, not two.

[mikeejimbo]

Well, I do have a feat in mind, namely able learner. It adds all skills as class skills, but only if your character is a human or doppleganger.

Of course! I'd forgotten about that feat. He's going to be a human anyway, so this will fit. And it's not such a loss that he's limited in his max ranks either, he probably won't be using that skill too much. (It's mostly for flavor anyway, which is odd to waste a feat on, I know, but, well, I think it's cool.)

Are there any other ways?

[tyckspoon]

The Martial Study feats add the chosen discipline's key skill to your list along with a Tome of Battle maneuver. Excellent choices, if there's a skill you need on the list.

[Artanis]

If variants are allowed, a level in the Human Paragon racial class will let you designate any skill as a class skill for every class you take. Ever.

I know it's deviating from the current class, but it's all I could think of

[Sstoopidtallkid]

The Apprentice line from DMGII.
Able Learner.
A level of Human Paragon.
Martial Study.

[Emperor Tippy]

There is a feat.

Flexible Mind from Dragon #326 let's you choose two skills that you have ranks in and they are forever more class skills, and you gain a +1 bonus on those skill checks.

There is also a feat from one of the books that let's you add 1 skill but I can't remember what it is. I just remember that it was mentioned back in a thread about paladins getting epic casting.

[Keld Denar]

Knowledge Devotion adds another Knowledge if you have 1.

Educated adds all knowledges as class skills.

Apprentice allows you to buy ranks in 2 skills that were at any point class skills as if they were always class skills, or allows you to add a crossclass skill to your skill list.

Crystalkeep is your friend.

[mikeejimbo]

If variants are allowed, a level in the Human Paragon racial class will let you designate any skill as a class skill for every class you take. Ever.

I know it's deviating from the current class, but it's all I could think of

That's not so bad, actually. I only didn't want to deviate to a class that has it as a class skill because I'm not actually sure about how that works with class skills (don't they only count as class at that level? Meaning I would only be able to put points in them at levels I take that class?) I also wanted as near to full casting as I could get.

There is a feat.

Flexible Mind from Dragon #326 let's you choose two skills that you have ranks in and they are forever more class skills, and you gain a +1 bonus on those skill checks.

There is also a feat from one of the books that let's you add 1 skill but I can't remember what it is. I just remember that it was mentioned back in a thread about paladins getting epic casting.

That sounds pretty good too.

Apprentice allows you to buy ranks in 2 skills that were at any point class skills as if they were always class skills, or allows you to add a crossclass skill to your skill list.

That also sounds like it might be OK.

Crystalkeep is your friend.

I shall have to remember that!

[tyckspoon]

That's not so bad, actually. I only didn't want to deviate to a class that has it as a class skill because I'm not actually sure about how that works with class skills (don't they only count as class at that level? Meaning I would only be able to put points in them at levels I take that class?) I also wanted as near to full casting as I could get.

They always count as class skills for purposes of your skill rank cap, but the cost you pay for them depends on what class you are currently taking. So after you have had a skill as a class skill at any time, you can take up to level+3 ranks in that skill with other classes at 2 skill points per rank. Or you can be a Factotum (all skills are class skills) with Able Learner (cross-class cost reduced to 1/rank) and effectively have every skill ever printed be a class skill for you.

[mikeejimbo]

They always count as class skills for purposes of your skill rank cap, but the cost you pay for them depends on what class you are currently taking. So after you have had a skill as a class skill at any time, you can take up to level+3 ranks in that skill with other classes at 2 skill points per rank. Or you can be a Factotum (all skills are class skills) with Able Learner (cross-class cost reduced to 1/rank) and effectively have every skill ever printed be a class skill for you.

Wait a minute, if you're a Factotum, why would you need Able Learner?

[kenjigoku]

Wait a minute, if you're a Factotum, why would you need Able Learner?

If you multi-class out then only the skills on the other classes list are class skills when determining how many points you need to pay. Therefore, Able Learner with Factotum allows you to have all skills as class skills and only cost one point per rank for any class you multiclass into.

[tyckspoon]

Wait a minute, if you're a Factotum, why would you need Able Learner?

Cross-classing a skill is composed of two parts. The first is the lower skill cap: Instead of (level+3), you can only have (level+3)/2 ranks in a cross-class skill. This limit is based on whether or not the skill in question has ever been a class skill for you; if it has, you can have up to (level+3) ranks. Taking a level in Factotum fixes that by making everything a class skill.

The other restriction on cross-class skills is the cost: They cost 2 skill points/rank instead of 1 (technically, you actually buy half-ranks, but it's usually easier to calculate them as 2/rank when assigning skills in bulk.) The cost of a skill is determined by what is on the class skill list for the class you are currently taking a level in. So you can take a level in Factotum to have all skills be class skills, but you still pay 2 skill points/level to get those skills if you leave Factotum. Able Learner corrects that, by changing the out-of-class cost to the normal in-class 1/1 rate.

Yeah, it's kind of pointlessly complicated. Wizards really didn't want people to have skills.

[mikeejimbo]

OK, yeah, I got it. I thought that was the case. If you stayed in Factotum, you wouldn't need Able Learner, then?

[Keld Denar]

OK, yeah, I got it. I thought that was the case. If you stayed in Factotum, you wouldn't need Able Learner, then?

Nope, you already only pay 1 point per rank, you don't need a feat that makes that redundant. Able Learner is only really for people who multiclass, which is what humans are good at, due to their lack of a favored class!

[mikeejimbo]

Nope, you already only pay 1 point per rank, you don't need a feat that makes that redundant. Able Learner is only really for people who multiclass, which is what humans are good at, due to their lack of a favored class!

Right, that's what I thought, anyway. Multiclassing is pretty much the most confusing bit of 3.5, I think.

[Mystral]

If you are playing FR, try "cosmopolitan".

Not only does it ad a skill as a class skill to your list, it gives you a +2 bonus for that class skill to boot. You have to come from the right region, of course.

[Darrin]

Skill Knowledge feat (Unearthed Arcana, p. 81) would also work, particularly for non-humans. It either makes two skills that are class skills in one class become class skills for all classes, or it makes one skill that is cross-class into a class skill.