4.0; stupid, good, better, worse, what's your opinion?

[ivendale]

I think That 4.0 is a lot of bad joojoo. I mean they killed barbarians, bards, scorserrors, gnomes, skills, and two weapon fighting! I keen come on grog has got to smash with somthing more thanjust one axe.

[KKL]

There's a Barbarian Playtest (1-30, only the Str/Con build), a Bard Playtest (1-10), Sorc's coming out soon in PHB2, nobody cares about Gnomes at all, except people who like Kender, and it's a widely accepted fact that both are subhumans, skills are just fine how they are, and TWF is actually USEFUL instead of either hilariously awesome or hilariously crap.

Oh, and in before, during, and after pointless edition wars.

[Stupendous_Man]

Apples are not better than oranges, nor vice versa. They are simply different.

[skywalker]

Oh wow...

I think 4th edition is, in a way, stupid (dumbed down from 3.5). But it's also, IMO, more fun. So it is both stupid, and better.

My $.02.

EDIT: KKL, by subhuman, did you mean sub(below, perhaps shorter?) than humans? Because I doubt many people would disagree with you there at all.

[kenjigoku]

I think That 4.0 is a lot of bad joojoo. I mean they killed barbarians, bards, scorserrors, gnomes, skills, and two weapon fighting! I keen come on grog has got to smash with somthing more thanjust one axe.

Aside from the fact this is probably going to start another [4e] war, I would like to point out that Barbarians and Bards are ready for PHB2. As for TWF, Martial Power just came out with Tempest Fighters, and you can always multi-class Ranger. Gnomes are in the MM, so you could play one, you just don't get any racial feat support. As for skills... yeah they got nerfed.

Edit: Sweet I totally got ninja'd! See spoiler!

Spoiler

Show

There's a Barbarian Playtest (1-30, only the Str/Con build), a Bard Playtest (1-10), Sorc's coming out soon in PHB2, nobody cares about Gnomes at all, except people who like Kender, and it's a widely accepted fact that both are subhumans, skills are just fine how they are, and TWF is actually USEFUL instead of either hilariously awesome or hilariously crap.

Oh, and in before, during, and after pointless edition wars.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

What, was the Monk thread dying down?

In reality, I hate 4.0, but it does have it's good points.

[KKL]

EDIT: KKL, by subhuman, did you mean sub(below, perhaps shorter?) than humans? Because I doubt many people would disagree with you there at all.

Only plants like Kender and Gnomes. ADHD midgets with sticky fingers != decent race.

[mikeejimbo]

I don't remember Gnomes being Kender...

[Kris Strife]

Apples are not better than oranges, nor vice versa. They are simply different.

I must disagree, oranges are clearly jucier, and more flavorful than apples, but harder to get into at first. (A little like 3.5) Apples are a bit easier to get into and not as messy, but not as tasty and leave you unfullfilled and have poison at the center. (kinda like 4th)

Yes, I've had that apples vs oranges thing in my head for years. No, I dont have anything better to do.

[Icewalker]

I don't know too much about 4e, but I know that despite a lot of anger towards it, there is often anger towards change.

I'd like to link to this, regardless.

Lastly, Stupendous_Man: apples are way better than oranges

[KKL]

I must disagree, oranges are clearly jucier, and more flavorful than apples, but harder to get into at first. (A little like 3.5) Apples are a bit easier to get into and not as messy, but not as tasty and leave you unfullfilled and have poison at the center. (kinda like 4th)

In my fits of hunger I have consumed many innocent apples, none of which whose cores have filled me with vile toxins.

Also, apples > oranges > apples > oranges, it all depends on the person. 3.5e and 4e blow an equal amount of ass, and both have their positive merits that outdo the others.

[Zeful]

I think That 4.0 is a lot of bad joojoo. I mean they killed barbarians, bards, sorcerers, gnomes, skills, and two weapon fighting! I keen come on grog has got to smash with something more than just one axe.

First, you obviously know very little about what your talking about. Had you, you would have known that WotC said at the onset that certain things (Druids, Barbarians, Bards, Monks, Gnomes, Sorcerers et all.) removed from the PHb were done so because they were either changing the class/race's focus (Druid, Monk, Sorcerer), or rewriting it from the bottom up (Barbarian, Bard, Sorcerer).

Also stop perpetuating the myth that gnomes were removed from the game, they were moved to the MM while undergoing a change in focus.

[Kris Strife]

In my fits of hunger I have consumed many innocent apples, none of which whose cores have filled me with vile toxins.

Also, apples > oranges > apples > oranges, it all depends on the person. 3.5e and 4e blow an equal amount of ass, and both have their positive merits that outdo the others.

You didnt know that apple seeds contain arsenic then?

[Icewalker]

Not enough to be particularly dangerous though, I believe. Unless you ate a bucket of apple seeds. That'd probably do it.

[KKL]

You didnt know that apple seeds contain arsenic then?

... Well, I'm still alive. That's gotta count for something.

[Kris Strife]

... Well, I'm still alive. That's gotta count for something.

Doesn't arsenic build up in the body over time?

[Asbestos]

killed barbarians, bards, scorserrors, gnomes

What? All these will be in PHB2. As Zeful said, they're just rewriting them. If you hate 4e so much, why not play the D&D you have and wait for Pathfinder to bring you 3.75 rather than starting a '4e sucks' thread? What is the big deal people?!?!

[Zeful]

No, it generally flushes out of your system after a couple of days unless more is added. If you eat an entire apple a day, your going to go end up poisoning yourself.
You eat a whole apple every week, your going to be fine.

[Asbestos]

No, it generally flushes out of your system after a couple of days unless more is added. If you eat an entire apple a day, your going to go end up poisoning yourself.
You eat a whole apple every week, your going to be fine.

Its sort of a moot point since... they don't contain arsenic!!!!

Apple seeds contain a chemical that is metabolized into cyanide. But, you'd have to eat a heck of a lot of apple seeds to kill yourself from it. You'd very likely get sick from stuffing yourself with apples before you got sick from the seeds.

[Enlong]

What, was the Monk thread dying down?

Just write unarmed Swordsage threads.

[skywalker]

Just write unarmed Swordsage threads.

What's there to argue about over unarmed swordsages?

[Tengu_temp]

{Scrubbed}

[KKL]

What's there to argue about over unarmed swordsages?

Terrible recovery mechanic. Like, TERRIBLE.

[Stupendous_Man]

No, it generally flushes out of your system after a couple of days unless more is added. If you eat an entire apple a day, your going to go end up poisoning yourself..

So i should be really, really, really dead by now?

[KKL]

So i should be really, really, really dead by now?

You're my brother in death. We shall die together!

/me bites a chunk out of another apple.

[Kris Strife]

You're my brother in death. We shall die together!

/me bites a chunk out of another apple.

Can I have your source books then?

[FoE]

Oh gods, not this again.

Can I have your source books then?

Sorry, they'll be buried alongside him in the tomb. But if you can fight past the sixty-six mummies that pelt you with apples, you're free to have them.

HAIL THE DARK LORD SNUGGLES!

[KKL]

Can I have your source books then?

I'm afraid not. If I'm going six feet under or burnt to a crisp and stuffed in a jar, they're going with me into the afterlife.

[Kris Strife]

I'm afraid not. If I'm going six feet under or burnt to a crisp and stuffed in a jar, they're going with me into the afterlife.

Come on, its not like I asked for your dice!

[Kizara]

What's there to argue about over unarmed swordsages?

Unrealistic concept, mechanics and taking the teeth out of situational or RPing restrictions.

Not everybody is in love with the ToB.