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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

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    Default To Kill A Ninja...

    I have a Pirates vs. Ninjas game coming up. I will be leading the Pirates. I know we'll be up against three ninjas with three pirates. I'm up against a kid who's been playing 3.5 since he was nine. And none of our good players like pirates besides me.

    Therefore, I have many questions I want to consider before doing this:

    1. How do you stop a ninja's sudden strikes, rogue's sneak attack and, depending on level, ethereal jaunting powers?

    2. What is my optimal level?

    3. Who all should I have on my 3 man team classwise?

    4. One of the other ninjas is an assassin. How can I stop his seemingly almighty death attack?

    5. What should the map be like so that it is balanced but useful to both teams?

    Oh, and I'm using guns from Ptolus. I can go into detail if you want.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Tempest Fennac's Avatar

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    Default Re: To Kill A Ninja...

    Which class are your Pirates using? Use Magic Device with See Invisibility would help with shutting down their ability to use Sudden Strike after the 1st round. You can stop death attack by just not giving him 3 rounds to study a target.
    "It doesn't matter what you think I'm supposed to be, 'cause I myself know all too well." Line from "King of My World" by Saliva.
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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

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    Default Re: To Kill A Ninja...

    Awesome job on your avatar.

    And we're planning on using a mix. I was planning on Barbarian, Ranger, and perhaps a Rogue or Swashbuckler.

    The ship bouncer, the sharpshooter, and the captain. Should make a good team, right?

    But you can seriously reflavor anything that isn't a caster to be a pirate. Which is both good and bad. Either way, their class choice is limited, ours is not.

    Would you have any suggestions for classes?

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Keld Denar's Avatar

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    Default Re: To Kill A Ninja...

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonBaneDM View Post
    1. How do you stop a ninja's sudden strikes, rogue's sneak attack and, depending on level, ethereal jaunting powers?
    Things that stop SA include fortification, indiscrenable anatamy, and concealment. To stop EJ, you'd need See Invis or True Seeing running, which would allow you to see into the Ethereal plane, thus denying them surprise.
    Quote Originally Posted by DragonBaneDM View Post
    2. What is my optimal level?
    As high as possible. The higher the level, the more likely your characters are going to be able to afford some method of becoming immune to Sudden Strike/Sneak Attack.
    Quote Originally Posted by DragonBaneDM View Post
    3. Who all should I have on my 3 man team classwise?
    I'd suggest Rogue/Swashbucklers with Daring Outlaw and 2 levels of Swordsage. This'll get you the ability to flank very easy, some minor teleportation powers, lots of Sneak Attack, and nearly full BAB. Don't completely dump Str (need 13), and take Power Attack (along with an Elven Courblade) as a finessable 2handed weapon. That way if they are immune to SA as well, you can still do considerable damage.
    Quote Originally Posted by DragonBaneDM View Post
    4. One of the other ninjas is an assassin. How can I stop his seemingly almighty death attack?
    Anything that stops SA stops Death Attack. You can also stop it by noticing your attacker before the 3 rounds are up (See Invis, See Invis Skill Trick from CScoundrel, True Seeing), or by just pumping your Fort save. DA DCs are relatively low, a level 10 Assassin w/ 20 int only has a DC25, which at ECL15 is really low. Swashbuckler gets good Fort saves, and with a decent con and a +5 resistance cloak, you could easily avoid this.
    Quote Originally Posted by DragonBaneDM View Post
    5. What should the map be like so that it is balanced but useful to both teams?
    Probably lots of cover and places to hide. Imagine the Basement map from the old N64 Goldeneye game. That would be ideal for both sides. If you don't want to get SAed though, a wide open, well lit plane would be good since mundane hiding wouldn't be a valid option.

    Honestly, if you really want to cheese it, make all of your guys Necropolitan (Libris Mortis). Undead can not be SAed except in a very few rare circumstances. Necropolitan has no LA, and only costs a bit of gold and xp, which should be irrelevant if you do this challenge at >level 6. Then you can dump con, since you won't need it, get a d12 HD for all levels, and be completely immune to nearly anything the ninjas can throw at you.

    Plus, it worked for the guys in Pirates of the Carribean!
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  5. - Top - End - #5
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    KeresM's Avatar

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    Default Re: To Kill A Ninja...

    We poisoned him, slit his throat, keel-hauled him, then fed him to a shark.

    He earned it.

    Ninjas in our games tend to suffer horrific and early deaths.
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  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

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    Default Re: To Kill A Ninja...

    Meh.... Why can't I be in your game dude!?!?! My campaign's lone pirates are me and the paladin.

    They're all freaking sheep!!!

    Oh, and what's indiscrenable anatamy? Sounds helpful!

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Keld Denar's Avatar

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    Default Re: To Kill A Ninja...

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonBaneDM View Post
    Oh, and what's indiscrenable anatamy? Sounds helpful!
    Any time the specific anatomy of a foe can not be determined, it is impossible to SA. Oozes are a prime example of this. You can't SA an ooze, because you don't know where it's kidneys are, or even if it has kidneys. The easiest way to get this is by taking 1 level of Warshaper. Unfortunately, this requires you to have Druid levels, WS Ranger levels, WS Monk levels, or to be a Shifter or Changeling as your base race. You could make a group of Changeling pirates with levels in Swashbuckler and Rogue, each with a 1 level dip in Warshaper at some point. Wouldn't be a bad dip, since it has a decent HD size and full BAB.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY!
    _________________________________
    A beholder’s favorite foods include small live mammals, exotic mushrooms and other fungi, gnomes, beef, pork, colorful leafy vegetables, leaves, flower petals, insects, and birds.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: To Kill A Ninja...

    Stop a Sneak Attack ?

    The druid/sorcerer/wizard should cast Rot of Ages (level 1). Here is the description:

    lol no sneak attack 4 u. Too bad about the short duration, though.
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  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: To Kill A Ninja...

    [QUOTE=Keld Denar;5413504]Honestly, if you really want to cheese it, make all of your guys Necropolitan (Libris Mortis). [QUOTE]

    You could play the Dead Pirate Roberts! I don't think Buttercup would fancy him anymore though...at least I'd hope not
    I apologise if I come across daft. I'm a bit like that. I also like a good argument, so please don't take offence if I'm somewhat...forthright.

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  10. - Top - End - #10
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

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    Default Re: To Kill A Ninja...

    *whistle*

    Well, this guy does claim to be master at breaking rules. This'll teach him. Now, should I be encouraging the use of magic items?

    I know a See Invisibilty or True Seeing item is the only way to truly get these guys, but that also opens up options for them as well.

    Is it worth it?

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Telonius's Avatar

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    Default Re: To Kill A Ninja...

    Wicked little pirate build here. Requires a few books (Stormwrack, Complete Scoundrel, Complete Adventurer, Complete Warrior), and is level 11. (Didn't get many comments in the thread, so there may be some huge glaring error in the build...)

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: To Kill A Ninja...

    Do NOT allow wands. Or at least not en masse. UMD builds is a bit out of the 'ninja' concept, but just in case.

    As for magic items in general:
    If you want to beat them: Yeah, I'd use some Magic items. Of course, if you go relying on items too much, the Pirate vs. Ninja feeling might be lost a bit.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: To Kill A Ninja...

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    Impossible! The only way to kill him is to stab him through the heart with the Ancient Bone Saber of Zumacales. But, it doesn't have to be his heart... I mean, you could stab him in the head or the lung. And, it doesn't have to be made of bone, metals and sticks work okay. You could poke him with a pillow and kill him...

    ...Oh, no! He's dead. Dead. Death surrounds us.


    Sorry... It was fun.

    Anywho. Light Fortification can be put on armor or a shield as a +1, for 1,000 gp, and gives SA a 25% miss chance. The Shield would be a good idea for the Swashbuckler, and the armor for the Barb and Ranger (who should pick the race the ninjas will be as his favored enemies, over and over).
    Also, get all the pirates some Slippers of Spider Climbing, at 4,800 gp a set, and a few Salves of Slipperiness, at 1,000 gp a bottle. Smear in strategic positions, and hope they didn't put ranks in Balance?

    Oh, potions of See Invisibility are 300 gp and would last for 30 minutes.
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  14. - Top - End - #14
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Person_Man's Avatar

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    Default Re: To Kill A Ninja...

    Fear effects would be ridiculously useful in this scenario. Fear effects from different sources stack, and often take effect when you attack, regardless of if you hit or not. For example, if each Pirate took Frightful Presence (Draconomicon) or Dreadful Wrath (Player's Guide to Faerun), then the Ninja would all have to make 3 Will Saves each round, and if they fail 2 they've essentially lost.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Tempest Fennac's Avatar

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    Default Re: To Kill A Ninja...

    You would have an unfair advantage if you allowed your party to use different classes (I'd agree that the Rogue/Swashbuckler idea would work best for fluff). BTW, I'm pleased you like my avatar. (I've had it for the last few months.)
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  16. - Top - End - #16
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Darrin's Avatar

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    Default Re: To Kill A Ninja...

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonBaneDM View Post
    1. How do you stop a ninja's sudden strikes, rogue's sneak attack and, depending on level, ethereal jaunting powers?
    If the target has any type of concealment/cover, you can't use sneak attack/sudden strike. Use obscuring mist, smokesticks, darkness, blurr, displacement, etc. Also, you'll want to avoid grapples, since you lose your Dex bonus to everyone not in the grapple.

    Ideally, you might want to consider Blind Fight + Mage Slayer + Pierce Magical Concealment. A dip into warlock/dragonfire adept gives you unlimited darkness, which means your opponents have a 20% miss chance but you ignore all concealment. Warlocks can also get See the Unseen or... I forget which invocation lets you see invis, and which lets you see in darkness.

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonBaneDM View Post
    2. What is my optimal level?
    Hmm. Not sure. I was thinking ECL 6-9 might be best for you, since Rogue 3/Swash 3 with Daring Outlaw is a fairly strong combo. Add one or two levels of Swordsage or Warlock and you can negate most of the advantages of the other side.

    For ethereal opponents, consider Dream Dwarves or Star Elves. Dream Dwarves can see ethereal as a racial ability, and Star Elves have an ability similar to ghost touch... I think that will work on ethereal targets.

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonBaneDM View Post
    3. Who all should I have on my 3 man team classwise?
    Human Rogue 3/Swash 3/Swordsage 2/Fighter 1
    Feats: Craven, Blindfight, Mage Slayer, Pierce Magical Concealment, Daring Outlaw, Staggering Blow
    Primary Flanker. With Island of Blades stance, any adjacent allies count for flanking. If the other two are busy, switch to Assassin's Stance for 7d6 sneak attack.

    Whisper Gnome Rogue 3/Swash 3/Warlock 2/Fighter 1
    Feats: Blend into Shadows, Blindfight, Mage Slayer, Pierce Magical Concealment, Daring Outlaw
    Sneaky Sniper, cast darkness on self/allies for concealment, snipe with eldritch blast + sneak attack.

    Desert Half-Orc Rogue 3/Swash 3/Barbarian 1/Warblade 2
    Feats: Blindfight, Mage Slayer, Pierce Magical Concealment, Daring Outlaw
    Typical Pouncing Brick build.

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonBaneDM View Post
    4. One of the other ninjas is an assassin. How can I stop his seemingly almighty death attack?
    If the assassin can't sneak (i.e., you have concealment), he can't use his death attack. Otherwise... I like the Necropolitan suggestion. Sorry, Mr. Assassin... already dead!

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonBaneDM View Post
    5. What should the map be like so that it is balanced but useful to both teams?
    Since it's Pirate vs. Ninja.... has to be a Robot--*cough cough* uh, Iron Golem Factory. If you have Robo Rally, grab one of those boards. For extra fun, activate the conveyor belts, lasers, and smashers.

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