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    Default [3.5] Which Classes are Most Item Dependent?

    Most of the Campaigns I play in use wealth a good deal below WBL standards. In fact, it's become almost an ongoing joke in some campaigns I've played.

    So, which classes are affected the least/most by wealth well below standard WBL?

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    Default Re: [3.5] Which Classes are Most Item Dependent?

    It doesn't really effect Sorcerers, Druids, and Clerics much at all.

    Wizards can take a small hit though, and any classes which have no casting capabilities (or severely limited capabilities) are really crippled unless the DM takes the low wealth into account. Our group plays low-wealth all the time.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Which Classes are Most Item Dependent?

    Monks, because they will no longer be able to afford partially charged wands. (TM)
    Last edited by Stupendous_Man; 2008-12-04 at 10:54 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Which Classes are Most Item Dependent?

    I'm going to make the joke now, so that it doesn't come up later:

    [EDIT - Except Stupendous beet me to it.]
    A UMD Monk!

    AHAHA!

    There. The jokes been made. Let's not flog a dead horse anymore.


    Incedentally, you may wonder "Well, why're you bringing it up?" Because every time a thread like this comes around, everyone makes that reference to Giacomo's guide. So there. It's out of the way. Don't touch it.


    Now, realistically? A UMD rogue might require lots of items. And least need for items? Fighter. He just needs fancy armor and something nice to smack things with.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Which Classes are Most Item Dependent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deth Muncher View Post
    There. The jokes been made. Let's not flog a dead horse anymore.
    Dead Horse, Dead Horse
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    Last edited by Stupendous_Man; 2008-12-04 at 10:46 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Which Classes are Most Item Dependent?

    I'd imagine anyone that took the vow of poverty would be the least effected.
    Me: I'd get the paladin to help, but we might end up with a kid that believes in fairy tales.
    DM: aye, and it's not like she's been saved by a mysterious little girl and a band of real live puppets from a bad man and worse step-sister to go live with the faries in the happy land.
    Me: Yeah, a knight in shining armour might just bring her over the edge.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Which Classes are Most Item Dependent?

    Generally, Full casters need none/very little(there's a reason sorcerers/druids are considered the only reasonable vow of poverty users), though you can also add Incarmnum to the list from what I gather. Oh, and warlocks can get by with very little gear(or stats, for that matter. warlocks don't need much).

    Skill monkeys are an odd breed, as while they don't lose too much of their primary role(skills), they can be lacking in other areas.

    Melee classes generally take a big hit as they use magic items to make up for their weaknesses/increase their defenses, and this includes the Monk.

    Oh, and Artificers are probably unplayable, simply because they get a huge boost in power.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Which Classes are Most Item Dependent?

    Fighters. Definitely fighters.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Which Classes are Most Item Dependent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stupendous_Man View Post
    Monks, because they will no longer be able to afford partially charged wands.
    I'm hereby trademarking this comment. Hereafter, every time you, or anyone else on these forums, makes a statement to this meaning, you owe me a royalty check on the amount of $0.05 USD. A contributing donation is owed to the board, so it won't sue me for making money off of this.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Which Classes are Most Item Dependent?

    imo artificers are hit the worst, seeing as how the class is almost entirely built around magic items and what not
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    Default Re: [3.5] Which Classes are Most Item Dependent?

    Quote Originally Posted by theMycon View Post
    I'm hereby trademarking this comment. Hereafter, every time you, or anyone else on these forums, makes a statement to this meaning, you owe me a royalty check on the amount of $0.05 USD. A contributing donation is owed to the board, so it won't sue me for making money off of this.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Which Classes are Most Item Dependent?

    Green Star Adepts?
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    Default Re: [3.5] Which Classes are Most Item Dependent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stupendous_Man View Post
    I have beat you to it. Please check my first post for details.
    By negative 4 minutes?

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    Default Re: [3.5] Which Classes are Most Item Dependent?

    I plead time warp.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Which Classes are Most Item Dependent?

    Unarmed Swordsages work well, as do of course Druids and other Casters, and I could see a Warlock surviving any lack.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Which Classes are Most Item Dependent?

    Wizards. They HAVE to at least be able to afford their spellbooks, after all.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Which Classes are Most Item Dependent?

    Ya, but they'll still be fine with low WBL like the O.P. specified.

    Definately non-casters. All casters can buy are a handful of defensive items. Low level scrolls & what not are cheap. A boost to caster stat is nice, but not necessary. All the non-casters get hammered hard. Except maybe monks, but they'll still suffer a lot more than casters. Clerics might get hurt a little due to armor and all their touch range spells. I'd say you're best off playing a wizard, sorceror or druid.

    This is why I don't like low-magic, low-wealth or high that or low this campaigns. It tends to screw some players over horribly. The power difference between a geared 10th level fighter and poorly geared 10th level fighter is utterly ridiculous. Heck, I'll take him on with a 7th level geared fighter.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Which Classes are Most Item Dependent?

    Quote Originally Posted by theMycon View Post
    By negative 4 minutes?
    *chuckles*...
    You realized that your first post was quoting Stupendous_Man right?...
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    Awesome.

    Right, now onto the topic. Casters are fine with less items. Also shock-troopers. Give them a good weapon and they dump AC so no worries.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Which Classes are Most Item Dependent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stupendous_Man View Post
    I plead time warp.
    Fair enough...

    Hmm...
    According to Black's "Law", 8th Ed, Chapter 5 s. 129 (Intellectual property & copyright in case of time warp), I think this means I now owe the server itself, directly, a nickel every time you mention it.

    Dagnabbit.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Which Classes are Most Item Dependent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stupendous_Man View Post
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    This actually made me vocalize a hearty laugh, brought up a fond memory, then it made me sing your post OUT LOUD while laughing and shimmying to and fro. You are a golden shoeless god of war.

    A UMD character is screwed without a steady supply of cheap magic and strong items he shouldn't be able to use. If the DM has rules that shapeshifters don't get the benefit of items worn, then shifter Druids aren't impacted at all.

    I'd say a spellcaster who makes magic items is one most affected by a lack of magic items, since such a lack must correspond to an increased difficulty / reduced profit in making those items.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Which Classes are Most Item Dependent?

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    Default Re: [3.5] Which Classes are Most Item Dependent?

    Wizards are severely reduced, compared to the other casters, if they only have few spells in their spellbooks. They're still wizards, so not weak, but then you wonder why you're not a sorcerer.
    Besides that, some game elements, like AC, are almost exclusively made up with magic items. I found that none of the PCs manages to have a decent AC at mid levels in low-items campaigns. Archers are also hit since one nice thing archers have over melee is to have the right arrow for the job (and archers need a help over melee in general).
    If you plan on a low items campaign you should at least revise the AC rules.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Which Classes are Most Item Dependent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doresain View Post
    imo artificers are hit the worst, seeing as how the class is almost entirely built around magic items and what not
    While this is true, the fact that Artificers can make anything for but a namely price pretty much means they can deal with it. Get Merchant Background and you're truly making real profit.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Which Classes are Most Item Dependent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rad View Post
    Wizards are severely reduced, compared to the other casters, if they only have few spells in their spellbooks. They're still wizards, so not weak, but then you wonder why you're not a sorcerer.
    Besides that, some game elements, like AC, are almost exclusively made up with magic items. I found that none of the PCs manages to have a decent AC at mid levels in low-items campaigns. Archers are also hit since one nice thing archers have over melee is to have the right arrow for the job (and archers need a help over melee in general).
    If you plan on a low items campaign you should at least revise the AC rules.
    AC is largely meaningless at higher levels, especially when you can get concealment, mirror image, etc. Casters still win.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Which Classes are Most Item Dependent?

    I'm imagining 11 characters, one for each class in the PHB, all about level 8 and with nothing but the clothes on their backs in an arena...

    ...Yeah, I'd vote for fighters needing the equipment the most. Though one detail often overlooked is that most wizards are nothing without a spell book.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Which Classes are Most Item Dependent?

    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post
    ...Yeah, I'd vote for fighters needing the equipment the most. Though one detail often overlooked is that most wizards are nothing without a spell book.
    Which they get for free at level 1.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Which Classes are Most Item Dependent?

    and even if they didn't (wizads getting free spellbooks at first level that is) as this is the internet they would have spell marstery, several times.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Which Classes are Most Item Dependent?

    I've seen wizards get by just fine without tons and tons of scrolls. 2 spells per level can be enough. It's not real ultimate power, but it works. Usually all a caster needs is a stat item to boost his DCs. Con and dex items are nice too, as is AC. But the caster is just as powerful without that stuff. It just keeps him from dying.

    Any sort of tank absolutely must of tons and tons of equipment.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Which Classes are Most Item Dependent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenix_of_Doom View Post
    Which they get for free at level 1.
    Which they still need to fill with spells. The free ones at every level can get them by, but it won't be nearly as powerful as a rich wizard. And if that one book gets stolen/destroyed/Deus Ex Machina'd, then where are they?
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