Crit my Wizard build!

[Heliomance]

Gray Elf Wizard5/War Weaver5
STR 11
DEX 17
CON 16
INT 32
WIS 14
CHA 16

Feats:
Master Linguist (1)
Scribe Scroll (Wizard)
Quicken Spell (Flaw)
Extend Spell (Flaw)
Iron Will (3)
Enlarge Spell (Wizard 5)
Leadership (6)
Sculpt Spell (9)

Traits:
Absent-Minded
Focused

Flaws:
Inattentive
Non-Combatant

Items of Note:
Headband of Intellect +6
Tome of Clear Thought +4
Ring of Spell-Battle

Stats are rolled, I did insanely well, got 18 18 16 15 14 13, arrayed as 13 15 18 18 14 16

Concept is something of a scholar, comfortable in social situations. In-combat role is buff monkey, with debuffing as a secondary. I'm not very good at battlefield control, so I decided to not bother with that. Master Linguist I just took out of amusement - I had more skill points than I knew what to do with, so I shoved them into Speak Language. Then noticed the Master Linguist feat and thought it was hilarious. I currently know 24 languages. Who needs Polyglot?

Anyway, how is it so far, and where do I go from here? I was considering hitting up Incantatrix. I've taken the 1st and 3rd level Elven Wizard sub levels, and got myself a Hummingbird familiar. What's next?

[Demons_eye]

Dont you need enlarge spell for war weaver?

[jcsw]

I rolled a natural 20, with my scythe, and confirmed the crit, dealing 64 damage to your wizard.

But really: Persistent Spell is pointless at this level, you can cast a maximum of 5th level spells, and persistent is a +6. It's not like you have DMM or something...

[Glyde]

*rolls a 20*

Did I do it right?

NINJA

[Fenix_of_Doom]

I'm jealous of your stats.

Unfortunately I don't know much about war weaver so i can't offer a lot of help, but why did you put 15 into dex instead of 16, the effect is negligible with charisma and useful on dex(just a note since you seemed to want an optimised character).

[Demons_eye]

Scrubed....

[Heliomance]

Dont you need enlarge spell for war weaver?

Huh, you're absolutely right. Can't believe I missed that. Okay, swap out Persistant for Enlarge.

Incidentally, starting cash is 250000, and my cohort's an Artificer, so money is very little object.

[ericgrau]

I think that headband exceeds 1/4 your wealth, plus that and the tome are a poor and overly expensive use of gold. Why do you even need to boost your save DCs on your buffs?? Boost your con with an item. Get lots of low level scrolls to handle strange situations with spells that aren't worth devoting spell slots too. Depending on your spell selection, metamagic rods may be helpful too. Get a ring of protection +1 or maybe +2, ring of force shield and maybe a dusty rose prism ioun stone. Just b/c they're cheap.

Buffing is often an absolutely horrible waste of combat rounds. You could do far more damage with direct damage, just as one possible simple example. Not saying that's the best option, just showing how much of a waste buffing is. Though if you can't handle control then it may be the way to go. Some (but not all) mass buffs are worth it - especially haste - as are buffs cast out of combat that don't consume combat rounds. As long as you can spare the spell slots. If not, and if you always cast the same buffs, then you might want to consider switching to sorceror.

But, tell you what, I'm not one to keep someone from playing the way they want to. Stay wizard in case you change your mind on spell selection later, which you easily might. I'll brb with a list of some good buffs you can use, but you'll still have to figure out how to use the rest of your spell slots for something other than buffing.

EDIT: Ah, just checked up on the war weaver. Apparently it helps you get mass buffs instead of single target. That's quite a bit more useful, but still make sure you pick some good ones.

EDIT 2, Spells:
0: detect magic, prestidigitation
1: mage armor, feather fall
2: resist energy* invisibility*, false life* (self), darkvision*, rope trick, glitterdust (debuff)
3: dispel magic, protection from energy*, heroism*, fly*, haste (!), greater magic weapon*, slow (debuff)
4: stoneskin*, greater invisiblity (usually out of combat)
5: overland flight*
6 (later): mass bear's endurance
EDIT: I think there's also a level 7 or 8 spell that gives a +8 to all saves and has a long duration so you can cast it out of combat. Don't miss that one.

*buff to be used outside of combat only

possible scrolls:
0: mending
1: alarm, hold portal, mount, comprehend languages, detect undead, identify (lots), silent image
2: detect thoughts, locate object, see invisibility, minor image, spider climb
3 (expensive, don't get too many, if any at all): tongues, gentle repose
Though if you have a ton of gold you might even get 4th level scrolls.
For gear I also forgot level 1 pearls of power.

I also found this warweaver guide while googling: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=769208
Can't say if it's good or not. Since I'm not familiar with war weaver, I may have left some good buffs out. Basically if you can make any buff mass it might become worth casting during combat, as long as enough party members benefit from it. That's why I listed mass bear's endurance on level 6: everyone needs con, and con is at least par in power level.

[Heliomance]

I think that headband exceeds 1/4 your wealth, plus that and the tome are a poor and overly expensive use of gold.

As mentioned above, starting gold is obscene, and my cohort's an Artificer, so all my items are homemade.

Why do you even need to boost your save DCs on your buffs??

You're right, I don't. But Int does so much more than that. It boosts my spells per day, it boosts the saves on my debuffs, and it boosts the number of people I can get into my Eldritch Tapestry. This build is very near SAD on Int.

Boost your con with an item. Get lots of low level scrolls to handle strange situations with spells that aren't worth devoting spell slots too. Depending on your spell selection, metamagic rods may be helpful too. Get a ring of protection +1 or maybe +2, ring of force shield and maybe a dusty rose prism ioun stone. Just b/c they're cheap.

Good advice, thanks. I was looking for info on what items were worth taking.

Buffing is often an absolutely horrible waste of combat rounds. You could do far more damage with direct damage, just as one possible simple example.

War Weaver is THE class for buffers. My buffs can affect up to my Int mod of people in one casting. Also, I can pre cast up to four spells of level 5 or lower, and activate them all on everyone as a move action. Oh, and spells I cast like this have their range increased by one step - so Touch range spells become Close.

Not saying that's the best option, just showing how much of a waste buffing is. Though if you can't handle control then it may be the way to go. Some (but not all) mass buffs are worth it - especially haste - as are buffs cast out of combat that don't consume combat rounds. As long as you can spare the spell slots. If not, and if you always cast the same buffs, then you might want to consider switching to sorceror.

I went Wizard because I've never played GOD before, and I wanted to try my hand at it. As I'm not sure how good I'd be at BC, and I'd seen the War Weaver class, I decided to have a go at buffing.

But, tell you what, I'm not one to keep someone from playing the way they want to. Stay wizard in case you change your mind on spell selection later, which you easily might. I'll brb with a list of some good buffs you can use, but you'll still have to figure out how to use the rest of your spell slots for something other than buffing.

Thanks!

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Buffing is often an absolutely horrible waste of combat rounds. You could do far more damage with direct damage, just as one possible simple example.

LOLOLOLO

No. You are wrong. You are terribly, terribly wrong. Compare a Fireball to a Haste spell. Or look at the Bite of the X series in SpC. Really, Buffing is one of the most viable ways of killing-doing it by proxy.

[ericgrau]

LOLOLOLO

No. You are wrong. You are terribly, terribly wrong. Compare a Fireball to a Haste spell. Or look at the Bite of the X series in SpC. Really, Buffing is one of the most viable ways of killing-doing it by proxy.

Some (but not all) mass buffs are worth it - especially haste - as are buffs cast out of combat that don't consume combat rounds.

'nuff said.

Gonna edit my original post when I find some good buffs btw. But you may find others in books that I don't have. Hopefully you'll get a good idea of what works and be able to decide for yourself.

[Heliomance]

Also, I'm pretty sure that the "no item may be more than 1/4 your wealth" thing isn't an actual rule, just a common houserule.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

'nuff said.

Gonna edit my original post when I find some good buffs btw. But you may find others in books that I don't have. Hopefully you'll get a good idea of what works and be able to decide for yourself.

Greater Invisibility makes the common Rogue a deadly foe, especially when partnered with Polymorph. Alter Self, the [Animal]'s [Stat] line(and the Mass version) and Bite of the X are all great investments at the levels you get them.

[Heliomance]

Not planning on taking any Mass X spells, as I can already cast single target touch spells on 11 people (plus myself) at close range :D

[ericgrau]

Ahh, so it is that simple. In that case add greater heroism to my list. I'd still leave out many of the stat boosters, except bear's endurance. Unless your party needs a lot of the same stat. Like if they're all melee fighters then you could also grab bull's strength. Besides that I didn't see any core single target buffs that would be useful if converted to multi-target. But if you can mass all of the out-of-combat buffs I mentioned, it would save spell slots and let you stack an insane number of misc. buffs on your party.

to Sstoopidtallkid: also see spell list in original post. And not sure if polymorph counts as a buff that the war weaver can mass. That also seems like a ton of game slowing paperwork, but if the O.P. can use it then ya that could be useful.

[Eldariel]

Well, Incantatrix is of course the best prestige class in the game, and improves your buffing by tons, so that's a definite consideration. Incantatrix Persisting all spells for you and all spells once ally casts is just plain awesome. I'd also use the magical location "Otyugh Hole" from Complete Scoundrel to pick up Iron Will saving a feat. You could pick up Practical Metamagic, Spell Focus: Whatever, Residual Metamagic and few others with those slots.

As far as spells go, much has already been covered, but Greater Resistance seems like a natural addition (picking Superior on the next level). Also, pack the normal defensive buffs like Anticipate Teleport, Battlemagic Perception, Heart of X, etc.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Ahh, so it is that simple. In that case add greater heroism to my list. I'd still leave out many of the stat boosters, except bear's endurance. Unless your party needs a lot of the same stat. Like if they're all fighters then you could also grab bull's strength.

Cat's Grace is usually good as well, since many people don't run their full AC. Bite of the X from SpC, of course. G. Invisibility is great defensively, Rage is good if your party has a few meleers or a Summoner and you don't want to waste spells.

[Heliomance]

Well, Incantatrix is of course the best prestige class in the game, and improves your buffing by tons, so that's a definite consideration.

I see your Incantatrix and raise you Planar Shepherd.

Incantatrix Persisting all spells for you and all spells once ally casts is just plain awesome. I'd also use the magical location "Otyugh Hole" from Complete Scoundrel to pick up Iron Will saving a feat. You could pick up Practical Metamagic, Spell Focus: Whatever, Residual Metamagic and few others with those slots.

As far as spells go, much has already been covered, but Greater Resistance seems like a natural addition (picking Superior on the next level). Also, pack the normal defensive buffs like Anticipate Teleport, Battlemagic Perception, Heart of X, etc.

What actually makes Incantatrx so incredible? I've looked it over, and it seems a nice class, but not horribly broken. The free meamagic on an ally's spells is quite nice, but it doesn't seem to do much to your own spells until the 10th level.

[ericgrau]

Cat's Grace is usually good as well, since many people don't run their full AC. Bite of the X from SpC, of course. G. Invisibility is great defensively, Rage is good if your party has a few meleers or a Summoner and you don't want to waste spells.

Cat's Grace: Still probably not worth the round to cast.
Bite of the X: Don't remember everything about that spell, but probably yes.
G Invisiblity: Definately yes, also on my list above
Rage: Not worth the round to cast, penalty almost as great as the bonus.

Though any spell that's not worth casting during combat might still be worth it in the buffing round(s), if he can spare the spell slot and already cast everything else.

[Eldariel]

What actually makes Incantatrx so incredible? I've looked it over, and it seems a nice class, but not horribly broken. The free meamagic on an ally's spells is quite nice, but it doesn't seem to do much to your own spells until the 10th level.

The 3rd level ability can be used on any buffs you cast. You can, say, Persist them all. You can also use the ability to buff your ally's spellcasting in a similar manner, with whatever metamagic you want. Then you also gain the ability to steal summons, buffs and a number of other spell effects, and the eventual free metamagic and metamagic reducer.

Then you also get bonus metamagic feats, 4 of them, for the entry cost of 1 feat. Mostly, the class's ability to Persist (3+Int)*2 spells with no level adjustment daily is the primary selling point along with the level 10 ability to reduce metamagic costs (which is obviously insane, as capstones are wont to be). The fact that the class does so much is what makes it truly ridiculous, and the fact that you can enter on level 6 and finish it on level 15.

Really, even if you removed the ability to apply metamagic to permanent effects and the ability to metamagic up allies' spells, the class would still be worth taking for the bonus feats, the free metamagic and especially the reducer. If you removed both those abilities and the metamagic reducer, then it probably wouldn't be good enough to lose a school for anymore. That's how awesome is. I'd take an Incantatrix over a Planar Shepherd not going for infinite Wishes through Wildshape [of course, Planar Binding does that too] any day (although that's mostly because of the power of Arcane spellcasting).

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Cat's Grace: Still probably not worth the round to cast.
Bite of the X: Don't remember everything about that spell, but probably yes.
G Invisiblity: Definately yes, also on my list above
Rage: Not worth the round to cast, penalty almost as great as the bonus.

Cat's Grace is +2 AC for most of the party, +2 AB for a couple of them, +2 to Reflex saves. Bite of the X is short for Bite of the Wolf/Werebear/King and provides a bunch of bonuses with one spell. Rage is +2 Str and Con, stacking, in exchange for the AC penalty that you canceled with Cat's Grace. If you have a Druid or the like in your party it is the epitome of teamwork.

[jcsw]

Get Nerveskitter (SpC).

Ordinarily it gives a +5 on one ally's initiative check.
Now, it gives your entire party +5 on initiative checks. You don't even need to pre-store the spell, you can cast it for free during initiative.

[ericgrau]

Cat's Grace is +2 AC for most of the party, +2 AB for a couple of them, +2 to Reflex saves. Bite of the X is short for Bite of the Wolf/Werebear/King and provides a bunch of bonuses with one spell. Rage is +2 Str and Con, stacking, in exchange for the AC penalty that you canceled with Cat's Grace. If you have a Druid or the like in your party it is the epitome of teamwork.

+2 AB >= +2 AC. +2 AB might increase a high BAB's damage by 15%, or a mid BAB's damage by 20%. If they were hitting on 50-75% of their hits before, they might average a hit or so per round (average single attacks with fulls). At level 10 they might be getting 20-30ish damage per round (after averaging in misses as zeros), so the net benefit is about +3 damage per party member per round. +2 AC is worth a little less than +2 AB. Scorching ray averages 35 damage, or at his level 52.5 for empowered, times the number of enemies it hits. A different buff like a massed greater heroism will also do more. I'm not saying the +2 AC isn't useful, it just isn't worth a round that could be used for something else. If he has a lot of buffing rounds out of combat and already cast everything else, then he could. Ditto for rage.

So come to think of it, even mass bear's endurance or mass bull's strength might not be the greatest once we make the fireball comparison. Except in long combats lasting 4 (bare min, maybe) to 6 or more rounds - assuming +5 damage per round per person from bull's strength, for example. Or cast them before combat. Mass greater heroism (assuming they don't already have heroism) OTOH would be nice, as would the other spells I listed. Just set up a priority since you can always stack the weaker spells on top of the stronger ones later.

Yeah, I remembered what bite of the X was just not how big the bonuses were. I suspect they're plenty large enough though.

[Emperor Tippy]

Gray Elf Wizard5/War Weaver5
STR 11
DEX 17
CON 16
INT 32
WIS 14
CHA 16

I would go:
18 18 16 15 14 13
Str: 14 (12)
Dex: 18 (20)
Con: 16 (14)
Int: 18 (20)
Wis: 15
Cha: 13

With all of your level up points in Int.

Feats:
Master Linguist (1)
Scribe Scroll (Wizard)
Quicken Spell (Flaw)
Extend Spell (Flaw)
Iron Will (3)
Enlarge Spell (Wizard 5)
Leadership (6)
Sculpt Spell (9)

Switch one of those for Faerie Mysteries Initiate. It gets you Int to HP. Switch another one for Keen Intellect (Int to Will saves and a few skills).

Remember that you have an extra 4 feats thanks to Chaos Shuffle, so you may as well use them.

Unless you need Sculpt Spell as a prerequisite I would dump it, Archmage Mastery of Shaping is better.

Flaws:
Inattentive
Non-Combatant

I would replace Inattentive with Vulnerable but that's just me and is a personal call.

Items of Note:
Headband of Intellect +6
Tome of Clear Thought +4
Ring of Spell-Battle

If you can swing it I would go with a +5 Tome and a +4 Headband instead. Thanks to MIC you can upgrade the headband later, but you can't upgrade the tome. And unlike the headband the tome gives extra skill points.

Anyway, how is it so far, and where do I go from here? I was considering hitting up Incantatrix. I've taken the 1st and 3rd level Elven Wizard sub levels, and got myself a Hummingbird familiar. What's next?

You need metamagic. Lot's and lot's of metamagic. I posted a link to a level 16 Cindy in the High Wizardry thread, take a look at that if you are considering incantatrix.

[Heliomance]

I would go:
18 18 16 15 14 13
Str: 14 (12)
Dex: 18 (20)
Con: 16 (14)
Int: 18 (20)
Wis: 15
Cha: 13

With all of your level up points in Int.

Switch one of those for Faerie Mysteries Initiate. It gets you Int to HP. Switch another one for Keen Intellect (Int to Will saves and a few skills).

O_o Those are disgusting. Where do I find them?

Remember that you have an extra 4 feats thanks to Chaos Shuffle, so you may as well use them.

That's a bit cheesy for my tastes.

Unless you need Sculpt Spell as a prerequisite I would dump it, Archmage Mastery of Shaping is better.

Doesn't help if the build doesn't have room for Archmage.

I would replace Inattentive with Vulnerable but that's just me and is a personal call.


If you can swing it I would go with a +5 Tome and a +4 Headband instead. Thanks to MIC you can upgrade the headband later, but you can't upgrade the tome. And unlike the headband the tome gives extra skill points.

What's wrong with picking up a +1 Tome later and using that? Or if that doesn't work, having my cohort UMD a scroll of Wish.

You need metamagic. Lot's and lot's of metamagic. I posted a link to a level 16 Cindy in the High Wizardry thread, take a look at that if you are considering incantatrix.

[Yukitsu]

You have to do all the inherent stat ups at once, not individually, I believe.

[kamikasei]

What's wrong with picking up a +1 Tome later and using that? Or if that doesn't work, having my cohort UMD a scroll of Wish.

Inherent bonuses don't stack. You can't get an inherent +5 to a stat by using five +1 Tomes at different times, you have to use one +5 Tome. You can use five scrolls of wish, but they have to be cast in rapid succession.

[Heliomance]

Never seen that rule before. Where is it?

[kamikasei]

From the description of wish:

Grant a creature a +1 inherent bonus to an ability score. Two to five wish spells cast in immediate succession can grant a creature a +2 to +5 inherent bonus to an ability score (two wishes for a +2 inherent bonus, three for a +3 inherent bonus, and so on). Inherent bonuses are instantaneous, so they cannot be dispelled. Note: An inherent bonus may not exceed +5 for a single ability score, and inherent bonuses to a particular ability score do not stack, so only the best one applies.

For Tomes/Manuals, it simply follows from the fact that they grant bonuses of the same type which therefore won't stack with one another. The only part that really needs to be called out explicitly is that the bonus is capped at +5 and that you can use multiple castings of wish as described.

[Aquillion]

As mentioned above, starting gold is obscene, and my cohort's an Artificer, so all my items are homemade.

Have you cleared this with your DM?

Just asking to make sure. It's the kind of thing that some DMs might object to, since an Artificer cohort is probably one of the most-optimized ways to use a feat that's already very, very powerful.