Can drows be good?

[Froogleyboy]

I ask because they are supposed to be evil but their Monster Manual entry says "Usually evil" so they dont have to be evil right?

[mikeejimbo]

Please, dear lord, no more good drow!

[BRC]

Yes. Any race that says "Usually X" can be any alignment. You could have an order of Hobgoblin Paladins.

Although, you then run into the Drizzt Clone Problem...

[insecure]

I ask because they are supposed to be evil but their Monster Manual entry says "Usually evil" so they dont have to be evil right?

Yes, but only if you can avoid the Drizzt problem.

[Froogleyboy]

Me and the guys at the store i play at have been screaming at eachother for 3 hours now I brought up the MM and they brought up Drow of the underdark

[kamikasei]

Yes, drow can be good; no, they're not likely to be; and if you're dealing with people willing to spend three hours in a screaming match over the issue, the correct answer doesn't particularly matter and you should walk/run away regardless.

[Froogleyboy]

Well they said a good drow would be hunted down by an elite group called the "Kinslayers" and slaughterd

[Smiley_]

They Can be good, though it doesn't mean you should try to play one.

Though trying to play one might seem like playing off as a Drizzt clone. Even if it wasn't your intention, you will almost always be accused of playing one if you do play a good aligned drow.

And if you can't get the point through to them, calmly explain that it is entirely possible for a succubus paladin to be made through the BoED. That should end the shouting.

If they still are screaming, don't scream back. It just escalates the matters.

[Ecalsneerg]

There's somewhere in the MM where it explicitly says that usually, and even always, just mean 'the majority of'. I know it's in there, just not what page.

[Froogleyboy]

we scream over everything at the store. the screamin' aint a big deal. It seems to be a touchy subject

[mikeejimbo]

I think that any setting-specific information regarding that will trump the usual rules, too, right?

[kamikasei]

Well they said a good drow would be hunted down by an elite group called the "Kinslayers" and slaughterd

I don't know about the specifics of that, but certainly it's extremely implausible to have a good-aligned Drow hanging out with other Drow in a Drow city doing Drow things without a problem. Drow society is thoroughly evil and doesn't like having good members any more than they want to participate in it.

This does not mean you can't have a good-aligned Drow, it just means that being good-aligned will have an impact on the character's past and development.

The archetypal good Drow is Drizzt, who lives as an exile and counts his home city among his mortal enemies.

There's somewhere in the MM where it explicitly says that usually, and even always, just mean 'the majority of'. I know it's in there, just not what page.

It's in the glossary - page 305.

[Myatar_Panwar]

Though trying to play one might seem like playing off as a Drizzt clone. Even if it wasn't your intention, you will almost always be accused of playing one if you do play a good aligned drow.

I don't know why people still endorse this conception that every good drow must be a drizzt clone. You see it all over the place in these forums. Its really kinda sad.

Just because someone wants to play a good drow doesn't mean they want to be exactly like drizzt. Its really quite silly that people think of it so negatively.

[Tsotha-lanti]

Me and the guys at the store i play at have been screaming at eachother for 3 hours now I brought up the MM and they brought up Drow of the underdark

Drow of the Underdark in no way contradicts this. Canonically, there are plenty of Neutral and Good drow. In Faerûn, for instance, there are small groups or clans of Eilistraee-worshipping Good drow - Eilistraee being the Good-aligned deity of renegade Good drow and dancing naked in the moonlight with a sword, or something.

The guys at the store are clearly stupid.

Good drow have a pretty impossible time existing within drow society (although at least drow priestesses no longer get detect good as a spell-like ability; unless they take some feats, anyway; I think it's now a domain spell though?), which is why they tend to flee to the surface to form their own communities, or else join non-drow Underdark societies that accommodate more alignments, like Skullport.

They Can be good, though it doesn't mean you should try to play one.

This is a stupid meme and should end. Playing Good-aligned drow is just fine. Clones of prominent fictional characters are bad and annoying no matter what character they're clones of - Drizzt, Sephiroth, Norman Bates, Vic Mackey, Master Chief, whatever.

[monty]

Technically, even fiends can be good. They're not likely to, but it's possible.

[Starbuck_II]

Technically, even fiends can be good. They're not likely to, but it's possible.

WotC even stated up a LG Paladin Demon (succubus).

[kamikasei]

I don't know why people still endorse this conception that every good drow must be a drizzt clone. You see it all over the place in these forums. Its really kinda sad.

Just because someone wants to play a good drow doesn't mean they want to be exactly like drizzt. Its really quite silly that people think of it so negatively.

The post you quote is not saying "every good drow is a Drizzt clone". It's saying "every good drow is likely to be accused of being a Drizzt clone by other players. Take pains to avoid this criticism."

Now, this advice is flawed in two respects: it seems clear that neither the OP nor his friends have even heard of Drizzt, and at the same time it's not obviously good to go out of your way to avoid an unfair accusation rather than just saying "no, it's not a Drizzt clone, as will be clear if you just let me get on with playing it". But nor is your criticism of the advice fair.

[Tsotha-lanti]

WotC even stated up a LG Paladin Demon (succubus).

More importantly, AD&D's Planescape had alignment-switched tanar'ri, baatezu, and celestials. (Although I think they mostly retained their Lawful-Chaotic axis alignment, which was the more significant one, in Planescape.)

The post you quote is not saying "every good drow is a Drizzt clone". It's saying "every good drow is likely to be accused of being a Drizzt clone by other players. Take pains to avoid this criticism."

Sounds like a great way to get a stilted, unnatural character. "Oh, no way can he be a ranger, or a TWF rogue/fighter! He'd be a Drizzt clone then!" If you build a character around trying to avoid other people's prejudice toward the most fundamental aspects ("good" and "drow"), you're going to limit yourself for absolutely no reason.

[kamikasei]

If you build a character around trying to avoid other people's prejudice toward the most fundamental aspects ("good" and "drow"), you're going to limit yourself for absolutely no reason.

Well, yes. I said that myself, more or less.

[Studoku]

Good drow aren't always Drizzt clones.

They usually are.

[Myatar_Panwar]

The post you quote is not saying "every good drow is a Drizzt clone". It's saying "every good drow is likely to be accused of being a Drizzt clone by other players. Take pains to avoid this criticism."

Oh, I wasn't using the quote as the reason of my ire or anything. Rather I was quoting it in more of a QFT fasion. He said that most good drow are going to be accused of being a Drizzit clone, which I sadly agree with.

Sorry for the confusion.

[mikeejimbo]

The only problem I have with characters who aren't of the usual alignment is that there's nothing preventing players from taking them. I realize that they should be allowed to play the character they want. In fact, playing an atypical character can be interesting. However, when everyone does it, it becomes typical, and one wonders whether "Usually X" actually means anything. There are a few things people don't seem to play, though. Chaotic Dwarves, for example, don't seem to be clichéd yet. It's interesting.

Either way, I prefer characters who tend to stick to the tried and true methods, including alignments. This, however, implies a lawful alignment. So is it actually lawful to play a chaotic character from a usually chaotic race? It's like, a paradox.

[T-O-E]

Nope, there have never been any good drow. Ever.

[JadedDM]

I have nothing more to add other than to point out that the plural of "Drow" is still "Drow."

One Drow.
Two Drow.

[Roderick_BR]

Well they said a good drow would be hunted down by an elite group called the "Kinslayers" and slaughterd

Yes. That's why good drows don't live in the underdark, and often escape to the daylight. To avoid being killed.
They are like the "evil" people in predominantly neutral/good creatures: Rare, and often hunted down.

[KKL]

Don't be good, play a True Neutral Drow who honestly doens't care and /part the #underdark because relentless backstabbing and powermongering wasn't his thing.

But yes, Drow can be good and not be labelled a Drizzt. You'll get those jokes though, but hey, laugh it off.

[Worira]

I have nothing more to add other than to point out that the plural of "Drow" is still "Drow."

One Drow.
Two Drow.

Red Drow.
Blue Drow.

[monty]

Red Drow.
Blue Drow.

I lol'd at this.

[Moff Chumley]

The point is, DON'T TRY IT!

[Demented]

When in doubt, there's always the Helm of Opposite Alignment.