Detect Evil Avoidance

[AmberVael]

Okay, so I'm going to be making a new character soon, and I would like to play them as an evil character (not over the top evil- they'll be able to fit in a party and such, and might actually be closer to neutral, but I'm calling them evil until further notice).
However, the one problem is that this party also contains a paladin.
My end goal, of course, is to turn him into a blackguard (something that the player seems amenable to), but in the meantime in case he starts throwing Detect Evil everywhere, I need to be ready.
So, here is the deal.

I'm level three, have all my wealth to spend, and would like to play an elven arcane-ish caster of some sort (and I mean that VERY loosely- Warlock, Beguiler, Psionics, Shadow Magic...).
Within this build I would like to have a reliable way to avoid Detect Evil that does not involve constant GP expenditure.
Any suggestions? Classes, feats, abilities, perhaps a race?

[Albonor]

Clerics have access to Undetectable Alignment as a level 2 spell. 24h duration, foolproof. Beware of dispel magic....

[BobVosh]

Isn't a spell that makes you detect as whoever is near you?

Aha, Misdirection.

If you know you are going to be detected this helps. Don't forget it takes 3 rounds of concentrating before the DE says WHO is evil, and lingering auras can explain/handwave the first round of seeing evil.

Although as he said Undetectable Alignment wins. Bards get both O.o

[Starbuck_II]

Okay, so I'm going to be making a new character soon, and I would like to play them as an evil character (not over the top evil- they'll be able to fit in a party and such, and might actually be closer to neutral, but I'm calling them evil until further notice).
However, the one problem is that this party also contains a paladin.
My end goal, of course, is to turn him into a blackguard (something that the player seems amenable to), but in the meantime in case he starts throwing Detect Evil everywhere, I need to be ready.
So, here is the deal.

I'm level three, have all my wealth to spend, and would like to play an elven caster of some sort (and I mean that VERY loosely- Warlock, Beguiler, Psionics, Shadow Magic...).
Within this build I would like to have a reliable way to avoid Detect Evil that does not involve constant GP expenditure.
Any suggestions? Classes, feats, abilities, perhaps a race?

The issue, you will make the Paladin fall just be associating with him.
He doesn't even have to know you are evil.
The Code doesn't care (Atonement spell does, but not the Code).


If that idea gives you the giggles, great, just wanted you to know what you are doing.

But yeah, Paladins (2nd level) have Undetectable alignment, Clerics (2nd Level) have it, and Bards (Level 1) have it.

The Quickest path is bard.

Mind Blank will also work.

[Rebonack]

Thin sheet of lead woven into your character's attire covering either the heart or the navel depending on where this particular setting says that the soul of beings happens to be contained. Those two are the most common.

So if the spell is detecting the alignment of one's soul then that should properly protect your PC without requiring funky armor.

Sure it's fluff, but it would be nifty inexpensive fluff!

Run it past the DM, of course, since it isn't a magical solution to a problem.

[kladams707]

The issue, you will make the Paladin fall just be associating with him.
He doesn't even have to know you are evil.
The Code doesn't care (Atonement spell does, but not the Code).

I thought the code said a paladin may not knowingly associate w/ evil.

[Thane of Fife]

The issue, you will make the Paladin fall just be associating with him.
He doesn't even have to know you are evil.
The Code doesn't care (Atonement spell does, but not the Code).

Except that that's not true:

Associates

While she may adventure with characters of any good or neutral alignment, a paladin will never knowingly associate with evil characters, nor will she continue an association with someone who consistently offends her moral code. A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good.

Emphasis mine.

[Starbuck_II]

Correct, it does say knowlingly.
I was wrong on that issue.

[AmberVael]

Clerics have access to Undetectable Alignment as a level 2 spell. 24h duration, foolproof. Beware of dispel magic....

This is true- I meant I wanted to go Arcane caster though. I'll edit that in to the first post.

Isn't a spell that makes you detect as whoever is near you?

Aha, Misdirection.

If you know you are going to be detected this helps. Don't forget it takes 3 rounds of concentrating before the DE says WHO is evil, and lingering auras can explain/handwave the first round of seeing evil.

Although as he said Undetectable Alignment wins. Bards get both O.o

Misdirection could work, though I'd like something a little more... permanent.
And a Bard doesn't get full caster progression, though I thought of it. They're just not quite what I'm looking for.

The issue, you will make the Paladin fall just be associating with him.
He doesn't even have to know you are evil.
The Code doesn't care (Atonement spell does, but not the Code).

Actually, if you're going to be an annoying RAW stickler, a Paladin doesn't fall for associating with evil people. They just can't knowingly associate with someone who is evil. The Associates clause does not fall under code of conduct, nor is it among the list of things that make a paladin fall. It's just a rule- if you know someone is evil, you can't associate with them.

[jcsw]

Planar Motes, complete scoundrel. Hides your alignment for 1 week, but are rather pricey at 300gp.

(Read up the item, it's rather complicated)

[Mercenary Pen]

You could always present them a separate moral quandary- for example:

Respected Senior Paladin of their order falls and becomes a Blackguard (but subtly, and without the knowledge of the rest of their order, using skewed arguments to bring about the fall of much of the rest of said order.

Firstly, this senior Paladin would be unlikely to get Detect Evil done on them on any regular basis, having been a bastion of hope and light for ages (how long will depend on their race)- making it possible for this to slip through the cracks.

Secondly, the plan of action is to have this obvious to the PC paladin but not to the order as a whole, building up a whole alienation between Paladin and Order...

In addition to this run your evil (or possibly dodgy neutral (CN)) caster, espousing (perhaps) a crimes against property are OK, it's just crimes against people/creatures that are evil philosophy...


Okay, wall of text aside, you have a ton of options available to cover this (not least of which are scrolls, which could be passed off as essential cross-class buffing spells, or used alongside a bluff check), so use whatever seems the most fun.

[mabriss lethe]

I'd just max out bluff and lie through my teeth.

Paladin:"I detect evil!...[ting.ting...ting]...It's YOU!"
You: " I'm not evil. A freak knitting accident when I was a child caused this. My mother, she made a sweater from yarn spun from the wool of fiendish sheep. I loved her so much, I couldn't bear not to wear it, she always made me feel so guilty if I didn't. And over the years, some of that evil wool just rubbed me the wrong way."

[KillianHawkeye]

I'd just max out bluff and lie through my teeth.

Paladin:"I detect evil!...[ting.ting...ting]...It's YOU!"
You: " I'm not evil. A freak knitting accident when I was a child caused this. My mother, she made a sweater from yarn spun from the wool of fiendish sheep. I loved her so much, I couldn't bear not to wear it, she always made me feel so guilty if I didn't. And over the years, some of that evil wool just rubbed me the wrong way."

This is pure gold.

[Tacoma]

Paladin: You're evil! PING PING PING

You: Look. I didn't want it to come out like this. I don't really know you guys that well. But I come from a line of Paladins who were cast out and erased from the temple histories because of the actions of my grandfather. He was ordered to slay a powerful demon but realized this demon could be redeemed given enough time and exposure to Good. So he captured the demon and during his life taught it the value of Order and Justice. He passed the demon down to my father who taught it the value of Love and Compassion. Now the demon is mine and I must devote my life to teaching it Loyalty and Humility. But because it's fading aura of Evil is around me it disguises my true nature as an Outcast Paladin. I can never hope to regain my true Paladin status in this life because of the choice my grandfather made. But should my faith hold true, and my son and his son spend their days helping this demon to repent its sins, we will have earned the rewards of a Good afterlife.

[Bluff Check result: 30]
[Sense Motive result: 8]

EDIT: I love this last trick. Make up a fake character sheet with the Outcast Paladin as your PrC. Write up an Outcast Paladin PrC for him to look at. But you have to keep your real character sheet in the middle of a book or something so you can refer to it but act the whole time like the Outcast Paladin sheet is the one you're using. Tell your DM about the ruse ahead of time so he goes along with it. Just hand both pages over and he can read it over himself.

This requires some planning ahead. But the result is better than any Bluff check your character could possibly make.

I do this whenever I play an Assassin or Ninja or whatever. I even bring the wrong sourcebooks.

[ShellBullet]

One way to avoid confliction between Paladin and evil character is that the Paladin tries to turn your character to good side...This has good chance of working, if your DM is ready to use rule 0 and you and Paladin characters decent role-players...Rule 0 is that the game follows DM masters rules or his of interpretation established rules.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Which level? Also, sounds suited for a Beguiler.

[Starscream]

I'd start out as bard and use undetectable alignment for a while. A well planned bard can qualify for the Master of Masks prestige class (from Complete Scoundrel) by level five.

This is a pretty neat class, but even if you only take one level you'll be able to make yourself a couple of magical masks. One of the neat things about them is that each mask makes your alignment appear different depending on what type of mask it is. And you never need to take it off. If you choose to make a "good" mask the paladin will read your alignment as good. If you make a "bad" mask, you'll read as evil, but can always just claim its the mask that's causing it (like with Roy and the crown).

If you continue with the class for a while you can even make the masks invisible at will, then nobody knows what's up.

Either way you get a permanent magic item, usable only by you, which will make your visible alignment whatever you want it to be (and give some cool bonuses besides).

[AmberVael]

Which level?

See first post.
See first post run.
Run, first post, run!

I'm level three.

[Talic]

Low-tech options:

1) Never get scanned. Be the one that nobody would suspect. Symbol of Lathander, start off by rescuing the paladin. Ask the paladin for advice on piety. Over the top stuff.

If you know your opponent isn't evil, and the Pally starts focusing... ? Enter a grapple. The best he can ID is the square. And if you are "above reproach"...

In short, don't fool the spell, fool the caster.


or 2) Don't be evil. At least, not right off. Be a disillutioned neutral that goes evil in a couple levels when he gets that rinf of thought shielding.

[TheCountAlucard]

This is true- I meant I wanted to go Arcane caster though...

And a Bard doesn't get full caster progression...

Dread Necromancer fits both those criteria, and it gets Undetectable Alignment. Plus, it's a pretty fun class, even if you're not playing up the whole "undead army, bwahaha I'm so evil" aspect of it.

[Raging Gene Ray]

My end goal, of course, is to turn him into a blackguard (something that the player seems amenable to), but in the meantime in case he starts throwing Detect Evil everywhere, I need to be ready.

Given that the person playing the Paladin wants to become a Blackguard, maybe they won't try to screw it up with the Detect Evil.

[Kyace]

Beguiler gets Undetectable Alignment. And Glibness later :3
The only annoying thing is that the vast majority of Beguiler's spells are Will Negates. Even the quasi-blasty ones.

[Saint Nil]

You could claim to be owning a cursed object that you have no choice but to own, due to bllodoath taken by you(paladin's favorite type of relative here)

Example-Paladin was raised by his Grandfather
You-I try to honor my Grandfather by keeping his oath to keep this evil object out of the wrong hands
Paladin-My grandfather was like that too!(Ignores evil read)

[Renegade Paladin]

It's Forgotten Realms-specific, but there's a feat called Veil of Cyric that causes you to not detect as evil unless the caster is several levels higher than you. The catch is that for it to work, you have to be convinced you're devoted to good, and sincerely worship a good deity - you think you're praying to your god, but Cyric, the god of lies, is granting you twisted powers for laughs. The "fallen senior paladin" trick is actually the reason for the existence of the feat; a senior paladin of an undisclosed Faerunian order (which will remain so to avoid spoiling players whose DMs may be using that plot arc) is fallen and become a blackguard in just the manner Mercenary Pen described; he rationalizes the hell out of all his subtle evil and has the feat.

The feat appears in City of Splendors: Waterdeep.

[UserClone]

The greater version of the Planar Mote lasts a month and a 2d6 days; that should be plenty of time for you to level up to the point where you can afford a ring of mind shielding or just have spells with which to tackle the problem. 600 gp is easily affordable for a level 3 character, and it's easy to justify having only just bought the mote, because you knew you'd have to fool a paladin. I'd choose a plane with the same ethical bent as you, though, to make it easier to fake it.

[Pie Guy]

See first post.
See first post run.
Run, first post, run!

I'm afraid I have to sig you, so if you'd please step out of the vehicle...

[Deth Muncher]

Well, if you're a halfling, you automatically gain Proficiency: Lead Sheet, as well as Quickdraw applying to it as well, so you're golden.

Or at least seems to think so.

[AmberVael]

The greater version of the Planar Mote lasts a month and a 2d6 days; that should be plenty of time for you to level up to the point where you can afford a ring of mind shielding or just have spells with which to tackle the problem. 600 gp is easily affordable for a level 3 character, and it's easy to justify having only just bought the mote, because you knew you'd have to fool a paladin. I'd choose a plane with the same ethical bent as you, though, to make it easier to fake it.

And... Planar Mote is what? From where?

I'm afraid I have to sig you, so if you'd please step out of the vehicle...

Yay, my silliness is Sig worthy.

[Telonius]

I second the Master of Masks idea. 1 level in it Master of Masks, pick up the Gladiator mask (or any other non-evil mask that's appropriate to the character). Wear it constantly. You'll always ping as non-evil.

[Raging Gene Ray]

And... Planar Mote is what? From where?

Complete Scoundrel.