OOTS #616 - The Discussion Thread

[Lunaya]

Okay, considering the fact that he's attracted to Mrs. Butterworth, what does it say about Crystal that Belkar isn't impressed with her hotness? Ouch.

[kierthos]

Okay, considering the fact that he's attracted to Mrs. Butterworth, what does it say about Crystal that Belkar isn't impressed with her hotness? Ouch.

I'm thinking Charisma 12, tops.

[Hectonkhyres]

My guess? He rerolled his character entirely when he did the whole 'communing with the inner spirits' thing. He has gone from a rather substandard build (seriously... going mostly full ranger is almost as bad as going bard or monk- some would say worse) to something munchkinish as all hell. If you have to play the game, you play it to the hilt.

He is whooping ass like a frenzied berserker who has reached nirvana. Gods, I love him so much.

[H. Zee]

I'm more impressed by Belkar knowing such a big word than I am by him managing to beat up Crystal.

[Drascin]

No rogues have lower attack bonuses, hit points, and likely combat related feats than rangers/barbarians. Belkar is better at combat then her, that's why she's only an incontinence.

edit: Thrice ninja'd

But still, any averagely-built rogue should give a ranger a few important wounds, not the least of the reasons being that ranger as a class is really bad. Feint/Sneak Attack is a valid tactic, and one that in fact should hit almost every time, since I'm thinking most of Belkar's AC comes from his Dex and dodge bonuses and can't Sense Motive for crap.

This is why Belkar being so overpowering against everybody feels so odd... of course, in this particular case, I'm perfectly willing to take "Crystal is an idiot with no grasp of basic combat rules" as a valid answer

EDIT:

My guess? He rerolled his character entirely when he did the whole 'communing with the inner spirits' thing. He has gone from a rather substandard build (seriously... going mostly full ranger is almost as bad as going bard or monk- some would say worse) to something munchkinish as all hell. If you have to play the game, you play it to the hilt.

He is whooping ass like a frenzied berserker who has reached nirvana. Gods, I love him so much.

You know, that does make a lot of sense, really. If I thought the Giant was using ToB in his setting, I'd think Belkar has just gone Tiger Fang-especialist Warblade.

[Demonicbunny]

I'm more impressed by Belkar knowing such a big word than I am by him managing to beat up Crystal.

Belkar is intelligent, he's always been (and you should know that by now).
It's just that he has that (un)fortunate mix of Chaotic Evil and a low-WIS score.

[Falxo]

Just when we thought Belkar had reached the peak of his awesomeness, he nuked the limits so that he can continue going higher.

Again.

[Winged One]

But still, any averagely-built rogue should give a ranger a few important wounds, not the least of the reasons being that ranger as a class is really bad. Feint/Sneak Attack is a valid tactic, and one that in fact should hit almost every time, since I'm thinking most of Belkar's AC comes from his Dex and dodge bonuses and can't Sense Motive for crap.

This is why Belkar being so overpowering against everybody feels so odd... of course, in this particular case, I'm perfectly willing to take "Crystal is an idiot with no grasp of basic combat rules" as a valid answer

Also, he gets to add his BAB to his Sense Motive to oppose a feint. Besides, I don't think we've ever seen Crystal use the Bluff skill.

[see]

Besides, isn't Tiamat Chaotic Evil?

No.







(What? Oh, Lawful Evil. Just like kobolds.)

[David Argall]

since he didn't go into the full Oracular trance (Oh great five-headed Mistress of Dragons, etc.... although maybe the Giant just didn't want to draw that again...) there's always the chance he's just lying.

So just why should he lie? Recall also here that he also tells Roy and Elan they are running late for family reunions outside the trance. The evidence before us is that he tells the truth about the future.
The apparent purpose of the trance is to get around the forget spell on the valley. It does not seem to add to his accuracy.

Besides, isn't Tiamat Chaotic Evil? What's her incentive to consistently let her Oracle tell the truth?

Tiamat is pretty clearly evil in OOTS, but it is not clear if she is CE. As to a motive, there are a number possible, including getting a cut.

But still, any averagely-built rogue should give a ranger a few important wounds,

Sure, but only a few, and our artist is not that concerned with precision or he would not be using stick figures in the first place.

Feint/Sneak Attack is a valid tactic, and one that in fact should hit almost every time, since I'm thinking most of Belkar's AC comes from his Dex and dodge bonuses and can't Sense Motive for crap.

Valid here means legal. It does not mean good. Feint is a standard action = no damage to Belkar. Crystal has a death attack, but Fort is a good save for rangers and Belkar saves on about a 2. Not to mention that there may well be no good place to hide in the hallway here.

[see]

First, you're you have to burn your action to feint. Second, this is assuming that Crystal has any ranks in Bluff; remember that she's hampered by her low intelligence in the number of skill points she has. Third, Belkar's adding his BAB to his Sense Motive checks to counter it. (Granted, his Wis is partially offsetting that; on the other hand, we don't know how many ranks in the skill he has). Fourth, Crystal is human, and Belkar has (IIRC) human as a ranger Favored Enemy; he's going to get an additional bonus to Sense Motive; it could very well be a full +6.

So, assuming Belkar is 14th level, has a +6 against humans, and a Wisdom of 6, he's got a net +18 to his Sense Motive check to defeat the feint before counting any (cross-class) skill ranks. If Crystal is 13th level and maxed out in Bluff, she's got a +16 plus any Cha modifier. Right there, that leaves a bluff failing 60% of the time.

[Drascin]

First, you're you have to burn your action to feint. Second, this is assuming that Crystal has any ranks in Bluff; remember that she's hampered by her low intelligence in the number of skill points she has. Third, Belkar's adding his BAB to his Sense Motive checks to counter it. (Granted, his Wis is partially offsetting that; on the other hand, we don't know how many ranks in the skill he has). Fourth, Crystal is human, and Belkar has (IIRC) human as a ranger Favored Enemy; he's going to get an additional bonus to Sense Motive; it could very well be a full +6.

So, assuming Belkar is 14th level, has a +6 against humans, and a Wisdom of 6, he's got a net +18 to his Sense Motive check to defeat the feint before counting any (cross-class) skill ranks. If Crystal is 13th level and maxed out in Bluff, she's got a +16 plus any Cha modifier. Right there, that leaves a bluff failing 60% of the time.

Oh, right. I forgot that he gets to add his BAB to that. So that's, given a ranger level of say, 15, about a +13 bonus to Sense Motive (negative Wisdom and all), plus anything his Favored enemy - one of them likely to be Humans - gives... yeah, that's a fairly good chance of ignoring the feint. My bad.

[Tholok Razescar]

" Sneeze too hard, and you'll burst an artery." Oh, Belkar <3

[Ave]

V should have seen this. His theory just crumbled.
Pickle woman was neither kill nor lush object.

[Woof]

That was the first comic in months that made me laugh )

[Tundar]

Pickle-woman!

Hillarious word. I'll never remember her as Crystal again.


Belkar showing traits as a teamplayer is scary, but FUN!

[Delgarde]

guess that rules out everyones theory of belkar using a sheild

It wasn't a very plausible theory anyway - he's a two-weapon-fighting specialist, and isn't about to throw away all his ranger abilities and feats optimised for that style.

[Koshiro]

Everyone seems to think that Haley won't kill Crystal while she's helpless.

Spoiler

Show

If The Giant reads the thread, this can only mean that she will kill her.

My prediction: After Bozzok is killed, Haley enters the room where Crystal is. Crystal throws out some trash talk, saying something like how Haley doesn't have the guts to kill her. Haley, without saying a word and with no emotion on her face, pulls Crystal's dagger from the floor, walks over to her, and...

*SPLORTCH*

Followed by...

Spoiler

Show

...an astonished/happy look on Belkar's face. Then he will excuse himself by saying "I'll be in my bunk."

[Delgarde]

Or they've been playing too much 4th Edition. 4e Rogues are much more dangerous in melee (depending on the build).

Somewhat more so, at least, without the variation in attack bonus between the classes, and with attacks targeting defenses other than AC. But they still don't do well standing toe-to-toe in melee with a heavy fighter - their best strategy is still the same one that worked well in 3E. Wait for someone else to get their attention, then move up and sneak-attack their ass.

[HOLEkevin]

I think I love the new Belkar.

[Ancalagon]

Nice comic.

And very nice that Belkar seems to think "Team player" means "letting your buddies kill the people they hate instead of stealing the kill". ;)

Have not checked the forum but I *BET* there will be a bunch of "Look! Belkar is neutral now" when I do. ;)

[Shadowcaller]

Nice comic.

And very nice that Belkar seems to think "Team player" means "letting your buddies kill the people they hate instead of stealing the kill". ;)

Have not checked the forum but I *BET* there will be a bunch of "Look! Belkar is neutral now" when I do. ;)

And they are all wrong.

[Delgarde]

Have not checked the forum but I *BET* there will be a bunch of "Look! Belkar is neutral now" when I do. ;)

There's at least one, yes. But myself, I think he's merely discovered in himself a much deeper, more sophisticated approach to being evil. Consider his moral tale to the cleric of Loki, about teaching a man to solve his problems with violence. Oh, no - he's not giving up on evil in the slightest. He's just becoming better at it.

[hamishspence]

i'm inclined to agree- until I see belkar risking his neck for others on a regular basis, I doubt very much that he's CN.

[Scarblade]

My greatest concern here is:
Who, oh who, in that immortal world have tought Belkar, Miko's Slash slash slash slash slash slash attack?

[dogmac]

Poor Crystal, there is nothing worse than being told you are not hot on your not-quite-death-bed.

[CrimsonAngel]

loved the comic! Crystal makes me feel smart :3

Something wierds goin on though, last week 613 was up, so I came on to read 614 and 616 was up!

[Greep]

Nice comic.

And very nice that Belkar seems to think "Team player" means "letting your buddies kill the people they hate instead of stealing the kill". ;)

Have not checked the forum but I *BET* there will be a bunch of "Look! Belkar is neutral now" when I do. ;)

yep, got the first one going :D Hop on over if you like, but I'm pretty much done with it. Both sides have the facts layed out pretty much fully and we just kinda ended with "Nyah I think he's neutral, nyah I think he's evil" If you have any mor elight to shed, by all means add to it, keeping it bumped will hopefully stop new threads arising about it haha.

[Majorman]

Nah, I'm gonna go find my cat!

Priceless! Hooray for Belkar!

I wonder, however, who's gonna be "Death's 'lil helper"? Thog?

[Greep]

Nah, I'm gonna go find my cat!

Priceless! Hooray for Belkar!

I wonder, however, who's gonna be "Death's 'lil helper"? Thog?

scruffy! :)