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    Default [d20r, Class] The Dreadnaught, v1.0

    The Dreadnaught class is a warrior separate from both the warlord and the barbarian. Where the warlord enters combat with style and tactics and the barbarian enters in fury, the dreadnaught wades in swinging, soaking blows and fearing little.

    Abilities: Constitution is your prime statistic, boosting your already immense amount of hit points. Strength will help you end combats quicker, and Dexterity will help you dodge and give you access to feats that may make your life easier. Probably least important is Charisma: nobody likes a brawler.

    Races: Dwarves and half-orcs are the most common among dreadnaughts, though there are some human and half-elven ones. Perhaps the most rare are elven and halfing dreadnaughts, though they are certainly not unheard of.

    Alignment: Dreadnaughts, though they can be of any alignment, tend towards chaos.

    Hit Die: d12

    Starting Gold: 3d4x10 gp.

    Starting Age: As fighter (PH 109).

    Class Features

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Dreadnaughts are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, as well as one exotic weapon of their choice. They are also proficient with all kinds of armor and all shields.

    Skills: A dreadnaught chooses two skill sets. 2 + Int skill points per level, x4 at first level.

    Prowess: A dreadnaught gains 8 points of prowess per level.

    Bonus Feat: A first-level dreadnaught gains a bonus fighter feat at first level. He must meet the prerequisites for this feat as normal.

    Rugged (Ex): A dreadnaught is a being of supreme hardiness. He adds his dreadnaught class level to his hit point total when determining his maximum hit points.

    Power Attack: At 2nd level, the dreadnaught gains the Power Attack feat as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites.

    Knockback (Ex): At 4th level, a dreadnaught gains the ability to shove his foes when making a Power Attack. Whenever the dreadnaught strikes an enemy while using the Power Attack feat and takes at least a -2 penalty to his attack roll, he may knock his foe back. His target must make a Reflex save (DC equal to the damage dealt) or be subjected to a bull-rush. This ability does not provoke attacks of opportunity, but it is subject to the Improved Bull-Rush feat. Furthermore, a dreadnaught does not need to move with his target: instead, his target is moved up to the maximum distance resulted by the check, and the dreadnaught remains stationary. A dreadnaught using this ability takes a penalty to his armor class equal to the amount he invested in Power Attack until his next turn.

    Imperishable: At 5th level, the dreadnaught gains the Endurance and Diehard feats as bonus feats, even if he does not meet the prerequisites.

    Intense Fortitude (Ex): Starting at 7th level, if the dreadnaught makes a successful Fortitude saving throw against an attack or effect which normally deals half damage or only has a partial effect on a successful save, he instead takes no damage and is not affected by the spell.

    Damage Reduction (Ex): At 8th level, a dreadnaught gains Damage Reduction. Subtract 1 from the damage the dreadnaught takes each time he is dealt damage from a weapon or a natural attack. At 11th level, and every three dreadnaught levels thereafter (14th, 17th, and 20th level), this damage reduction rises by 1 point. Damage reduction can reduce damage to 0 but not below 0. This damage reduction stacks with the damage reduction gained by the barbarian class.

    Elemental Resistance (Su): At 10th level, a dreadnaught can shrug off the effects of even the most damaging magics. When affected by a spell that inflicts elemental damage (that is, fire, cold, electricity, sonic, or acid), he reduces each die of damage by one, to a minimum of one. Bonus damage on top of each die is not reduced, and a spell affected by the Maximize Spell metamagic feat suffers no reduction. At 11th level, and every three dreadnaught levels thereafter (14th, 17th, and 20th), the amount subtracted from each die increases by 1, but still cannot reduce the damage per die to below 1.

    Crushing Blow (Ex): At 10th level, whenever the dreadnaught strikes an enemy while using the Power Attack feat and takes at least a -2 penalty to his attack roll, he may inflict a crushing blow. His target must make a Reflex save (DC equal to the damage dealt) or be knocked prone. This is not a trip attack, and so does not activate feats such as Improved Trip, nor does it provoke attacks of opportunity. A dreadnaught using this ability takes a penalty to his armor class equal to the amount he invested in Power Attack until his next turn. A dreadnaught can use this ability in conjunction with the Knockback ability, but his target gets two saves: if his opponent makes either save, neither ability triggers.

    Unstoppable (Su): At 13th level, a dreadnaught can overcome the most daunting of physical tasks. Twice per day, as a swift action, he can add his dreadnaught class level as a competence bonus on one Strength check made to break an object. He may even attempt to break normally unbreakable objects and spells, such as a wall of force, with this ability--magical effects (such as the aforementioned wall of force) use the caster's save DC (appropriate for the spell's level) plus 10 to determine the break DC. Only spells that create or summon objects (not creatures) may be effected via this ability. A broken magical effect is dispelled. The dreadnaught gains two additional uses of this ability per day at 16th level, and two more at 19th level.

    Stability (Ex): At 13th level, a dreadnaught gains a +6 bonus on ability checks made to resist being bull rushed or tripped when standing on the ground (but not when climbing, flying, riding, or otherwise not standing firmly on the ground). Should the dreadnaught already have this feature (such as by being a dwarf), the bonus received from the original ability is instead increased by 6.

    Vicious Circle (Ex): At 16th level, a dreadnaught causes the area around him to become dangerous to even pass through. Any square that the dreadnaught threatens is treated as difficult terrain, and any movement--including five-foot steps and other movement that does not normally provoke--through those squares provokes an attack of opportunity from the dreadnaught. This ability does not give a dreadnaught additional attacks of opportunity, but a feat such as Combat Reflexes would allow him to take advantage of each provocation.

    Unrelenting Cascade (Ex): At 20th level, a dreadnaught can unleash a nigh-unstoppable string of attacks. As a full-round action, he makes one melee attack against an opponent he threatens. If he strikes that foe, he may immediately make another attack against any foe he threatens, at a -2 penalty. He may continue making extra attacks, each at an additional -2 penalty, until he misses an attack. While using this ability, he is considered to have the Cleave and Great Cleave feats, even if he does not possess them or meet the prerequisites, and may make 5' steps between cleave attempts. Should a foe perish while being attacked by this ability, the penalty the dreadnaught takes to attack rolls resets to 0, and the cascade of blows starts anew if he can reach another foe.

    Dreadnaught Progression

    {table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special
    1st | +1 | +2 | +0 | +1 | Bonus Feat, Rugged
    2nd | +2 | +3 | +0 | +1 | Power Attack
    3rd | +3 | +3 | +1 | +2 | -
    4th | +4 | +4 | +1 | +2 | Knockback
    5th | +5 | +4 | +1 | +3 | Imperishable
    6th | +6/+1 | +5 | +2 | +3 | -
    7th | +7/+2 | +5 | +2 | +3 | Intense Fortitude
    8th | +8/+3 | +6 | +2 | +4 | DR 1/-, Elemental Resist 1
    9th | +9/+4 | +6 | +3 | +4 | -
    10th | +10/+5 | +7 | +3 | +5 | Crushing Blow
    11th | +11/+6/+1 | +7 | +3 | +5 | DR 2/-, Elemental Resist 2
    12th | +12/+7/+2 | +8 | +4 | +6 | -
    13th | +13/+8/+3 | +8 | +4 | +6 | Unstoppable (2/day), Stability
    14th | +14/+9/+4 | +9 | +4 | +6 | DR 3/-, Elemental Resist 3
    15th | +15/+10/+5 | +9 | +5 | +7 | -
    16th | +16/+11/+6/+1 | +10 | +5 | +7 | Unstoppable (4/day), Vicious Circle
    17th | +17/+12/+7/+2 | +10 | +5 | +8 | DR 4/-, Elemental Resist 4
    18th | +18/+13/+8/+3 | +11 | +6 | +8 | -
    19th | +19/+14/+9/+4 | +11 | +6 | +8 | Unstoppable (6/day)
    20th | +20/+15/+10/+5 | +12 | +6 | +9 | DR 5/-, Elemental Resist 5, Unrelenting Cascade[/table]
    Last edited by Fax Celestis; 2008-12-26 at 02:41 PM.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Dreadnaught, v1.0

    Fax, this class is brilliant. Unrelenting Cascade is something I've always wanted to see a fighter-type have.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Dreadnought, v1.0

    Exemplary work as usual Fax.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Dreadnaught, v1.0

    Holy crap!

    HULK resist minor damages, step up to Wall of Force effect and SMASH it.

    Dreadnaught be smacking foes all over the place.
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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Dreadnaught, v1.0

    Yeah, I second Afro's sentiment. This class is a great alternative to ToB uber-melee, with much less upkeep. I also agree that Unrelenting Cascade is ridiculously sweet; it's not gonna help you slaughter the BBEG, but it will turn a swarm of the BBEG's minions into ludicrous gibs.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Dreadnaught, v1.0

    Of course, it makes the rat trick even more potent.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Dreadnaught, v1.0

    The tabel lists Crushing Blow as a level 10 ability, whereas the text block lists it as 8th level. Still, a neat class.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Dreadnaught, v1.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Starsinger View Post
    The tabel lists Crushing Blow as a level 10 ability, whereas the text block lists it as 8th level. Still, a neat class.
    10th is correct. Fixing.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Dreadnaught, v1.0

    I almost didn't comment, because I really don't have anything good to say, but I feel like I should comment anyway.

    All this class does is hit things. Not even ludicrously hard. It just hits things, has lots of hp, and AND THAT'S IT.

    The Fighter and Barbarian are criticized as being weak because of this very thing. Hitting things, and only hitting things, isn't really a viable combat contribution.

    Why? Because the times that it's actually good for you to be hitting things, or at least the times you actually can hit things to kill them, it takes you multiple rounds to get the job done whereas any Wizard, or simply someone with a Wand, can destroy half the enemies at once.

    The other times, the times where you can't hit the enemy because of concealment, flight, invisibility, mirror images, incorporeality, gaseous form, etc, etc (spell effects that trump weapon attacks), you literally do NOTHING.

    This is why Tome of Battle is considered quite a step up from the normal way of making warrior classes. It offers options (in the form of boosts, counters, and stances) other than "I attack it." And the ToB classes still have trouble against any enemy with any magic.

    In closing, options are good, 1-20 static progressions of "I get better at hitting things" are bad. Oh, and The DR and Energy Resistance are so small that they don't even matter.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Dreadnaught, v1.0

    The DR is the same as the Barbarian gets, so I don't see an issue there. The Elemental Resistance, however, isn't "Resistance" in the traditional sense: instead, it reduces each die, so that a 6d6 fireball is only doing 6d6-6 if you have Elemental Resistance 1, or doing 6d6-24 if you have Elemental Resistance 4.

    My next step is going to be introducing Investing Feats, which are feats that get better whenever you put more "martial prowess" into them. The dreadnaught will get more martial prowess per level than any other class in the game, and as such will be able to boost multiple feats to enormous heights: this is where the majority of his power will come into play.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Dreadnaught, v1.0

    I agree that the damage reduction should be raised to DR2/- every 3 levels, but I respectfully disagree with just about everything else Ziegander said.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Dreadnaught, v1.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    The DR is the same as the Barbarian gets, so I don't see an issue there.
    Well, you're rewriting things right? The DR that a Barbarian gets is too small to matter as well, but I was talking about this class specifically.

    The Elemental Resistance, however, isn't "Resistance" in the traditional sense: instead, it reduces each die, so that a 6d6 fireball is only doing 6d6-6 if you have Elemental Resistance 1, or doing 6d6-24 if you have Elemental Resistance 4.
    Ah, missed that. That's what happens when I go making assumptions. That's pretty solid elemental resistance then. Perhaps consider making the damage reduction similar. It reduces a flat number, and then also reduces each die by a certain number (that way you take even less damage from large, enhanced natural attacks).

    My next step is going to be introducing Investing Feats, which are feats that get better whenever you put more "martial prowess" into them. The dreadnaught will get more martial prowess per level than any other class in the game, and as such will be able to boost multiple feats to enormous heights: this is where the majority of his power will come into play.
    So, wait, is the class not done, or is this new Feats system not done? If the Dreadnaught gets more martial prowess than any other class I'd like to see it get a few of these bonus feats over the levels as well.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Dreadnaught, v1.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeta Kai View Post
    I agree that the damage reduction should be raised to DR2/- every 3 levels, but I respectfully disagree with just about everything else Ziegander said.
    Well, why exactly do you disagree, and with what specifically? Basically I just don't want Fax to fall into the trap of thinking that all Warrior classes do is hit things, or that Warrior classes shouldn't be capable of anything else.

    1) Because that's unfair and unbalancing if other classes can do other things AND still hit stuff well.

    2) Because it's boring.

    3) Because it's unrealistic. Warriors that can only hit stuff are grunt soldiers. NPCs. Heroic Warriors are exemplary. They hit stuff really well, AND have a brain, and since they have a brain they have options.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Dreadnaught, v1.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegander View Post
    So, wait, is the class not done, or is this new Feats system not done? If the Dreadnaught gets more martial prowess than any other class I'd like to see it get a few of these bonus feats over the levels as well.
    New feat system is not done, but sufficient to say the bonus feats it has are already investing feats.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Dreadnaught, v1.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    New feat system is not done, but sufficient to say the bonus feats it has are already investing feats.
    But it only gets one.

    EDIT: This is also my big problem with this class. Your Rebirth Rogue hits stuff pretty darned well, has a host of useful class features, has tons of skills, and reasons to use them, AND has Powers. Your Rebirth Monk hits stuff pretty darned well, has useful class features, AND has his Atma powers. Spellcasters obviously have spells that can literally do anything. Warriors need an equivalent to Powers/Atma/Spells. ToB did this. The Dreadnaught is not doing this.
    Last edited by Ziegander; 2008-12-13 at 09:52 PM.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Dreadnaught, v1.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegander View Post
    But it only gets one.

    EDIT: This is also my big problem with this class. Your Rebirth Rogue hits stuff pretty darned well, has a host of useful class features, has tons of skills, and reasons to use them, AND has Powers. Your Rebirth Monk hits stuff pretty darned well, has useful class features, AND has his Atma powers. Spellcasters obviously have spells that can literally do anything. Warriors need an equivalent to Powers/Atma/Spells. ToB did this. The Dreadnaught is not doing this.
    According to the part of Fax's feat fix that is done, I believe that the Dreadnaught (along with a few other classes) get feats every level.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Dreadnaught, v1.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegander View Post
    But it only gets one.

    EDIT: This is also my big problem with this class. Your Rebirth Rogue hits stuff pretty darned well, has a host of useful class features, has tons of skills, and reasons to use them, AND has Powers. Your Rebirth Monk hits stuff pretty darned well, has useful class features, AND has his Atma powers. Spellcasters obviously have spells that can literally do anything. Warriors need an equivalent to Powers/Atma/Spells. ToB did this. The Dreadnaught is not doing this.
    Unfortunately, this is specifically what Fax is trying to avoid. So don't keep your hopes up.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Dreadnaught, v1.0

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Unfortunately, this is specifically what Fax is trying to avoid. So don't keep your hopes up.
    What specifically? ToB? I didn't say, "Make all of your warriors use Tome of Battle!" I said warriors need options equivalent to Powers/Atma/Spells. If they don't have them, then his Rebirth system is unfair, unbalanced, and will have boring NPC caliber warriors.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Dreadnaught, v1.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegander View Post
    What specifically? ToB? I didn't say, "Make all of your warriors use Tome of Battle!" I said warriors need options equivalent to Powers/Atma/Spells.
    That, specifically.

    If they don't have them, then his Rebirth system is unfair, unbalanced, and will have boring NPC caliber warriors.
    *shrug* and 3.X wasn't unfair and unbalanced?

    Fax's Dreadnought is still very interesting without using the same ToB/4E-esque system the others have. It employs enhanced feats to hold true to the spirit of the original Fighter class from 3.X. I would recommend that you look at them before rendering judgment.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Dreadnaught, v1.0

    I looked at them. I was hoping he'd make his own feats instead of enhancing existing ones. Yes, they are a step in the right direction, but they still don't offer much in the way of options.

    Also, what the hell is the point of rewriting the system of base classes if you don't want to make them more balanced?

    Yea! Fighters only hit stuff! Everyone else does ANYTHING else.

    Wait... what?

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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Dreadnaught, v1.0

    He is in the process of making his own. No reason to throw out everything that's gone before, though.

    And again, it is more balanced. It simply doesn't have a spread of powers.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Dreadnaught, v1.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegander View Post
    I looked at them. I was hoping he'd make his own feats instead of enhancing existing ones. Yes, they are a step in the right direction, but they still don't offer much in the way of options.

    Also, what the hell is the point of rewriting the system of base classes if you don't want to make them more balanced?

    Yea! Fighters only hit stuff! Everyone else does ANYTHING else.

    Wait... what?
    The feats in question are merely preliminaries: more will be forthcoming as I make them. I decided I'd start with what already existed since it'd be easier to do so.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Dreadnaught, v1.0

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Fax's Dreadnought is still very interesting without using the same ToB/4E-esque system the others have. It employs enhanced feats to hold true to the spirit of the original Fighter class from 3.X. I would recommend that you look at them before rendering judgment.
    And that is a terrible, terrible idea. The fighter was one of the most horrible parts of 3.X and sticking to that idea that a class should remain simple and weak (Which is what the Dreadnaught is, but its a step in the right direction) for "rookies" is a terrible one. So far this is the only thing I've been dissapointed in so far in Rebirth.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Dreadnaught, v1.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegander View Post
    Well, why exactly do you disagree, and with what specifically? Basically I just don't want Fax to fall into the trap of thinking that all Warrior classes do is hit things, or that Warrior classes shouldn't be capable of anything else.

    1) Because that's unfair and unbalancing if other classes can do other things AND still hit stuff well.

    2) Because it's boring.

    3) Because it's unrealistic. Warriors that can only hit stuff are grunt soldiers. NPCs. Heroic Warriors are exemplary. They hit stuff really well, AND have a brain, and since they have a brain they have options.
    1) Lappy like hitting things.

    2) Hitting things is fun.

    3) Fantasy hitting things even more fun than not-fantasy hitting things.
    Last edited by Lappy9000; 2008-12-13 at 10:20 PM.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Dreadnaught, v1.0

    I believe the problem at hand is that the dreadnaught presented here doesn't do anything that another class can't do--that's a valid point, and one I've strived to circumvent with my previous creations.

    The question becomes, what do I give to the dreadnaught that gives it that capability? Remember, he's not your typical leader-of-men, so auras are out. He's not a barbarian, so rage is out. He's not a trickster, so rogue powers are out.

    Thoughts?

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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Dreadnaught, v1.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Vic_Sage View Post
    And that is a terrible, terrible idea. The fighter was one of the most horrible parts of 3.X and sticking to that idea that a class should remain simple and weak (Which is what the Dreadnaught is, but its a step in the right direction) for "rookies" is a terrible one. So far this is the only thing I've been dissapointed in so far in Rebirth.
    That's not what I was referring to; rather that a fighter develops a combat style which he employs consistently, developing it through feats. The Dreadnought strengthens the Fighter's power in melee, and Investing Feats allow more unique combat styles to flourish. By no means does it have to be weak, and the built-in options alone are far from simple. When Fax's custom feats are posted, there will be even more variety and power for the Dreadnought.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Dreadnaught, v1.0

    And that is a terrible, terrible idea. The fighter was one of the most horrible parts of 3.X and sticking to that idea that a class should remain simple and weak (Which is what the Dreadnaught is, but its a step in the right direction) for "rookies" is a terrible one. So far this is the only thing I've been dissapointed in so far in Rebirth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lappy9000 View Post
    1) Lappy like hitting things.

    2) Hitting things is fun.

    3) Fantasy hitting things even more fun than not-fantasy hitting things.
    1) Zieg like hitting things too. Zieg also like doing other things. Especially when all of my friends hit things and do other things.

    2) Hitting things is fun, Lappy. But, my friends all do other things, and when I can't hit things, I can't do aaanything.

    3) I like trees.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Dreadnaught, v1.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post

    Thoughts?
    Similar with a your monk rebuild. Sure he isn't any of those. But he's still above average at hitting things. While full on maneuvers might be....not a great idea...but something makes him stand out from Warrior B12.

    Perhaps martial styles based on weapon selection. He's good at hitting things -because- he knows his or her weapon inside and out. He's pracited with it and knows all its tricks.
    Last edited by Innis Cabal; 2008-12-13 at 10:26 PM.
    My Current Works


    Quote Originally Posted by Serpentine View Post
    Also I'm pretty sure you're GLaDoS now.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Fairfield, CA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Dreadnaught, v1.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Innis Cabal View Post
    Similar with a your monk rebuild. Sure he isn't any of those. But he's still above average at hitting things. While full on maneuvers might be....not a great idea...but something makes him stand out from Warrior B12.

    Perhaps martial styles based on weapon selection. He's good at hitting things -because- he knows his or her weapon inside and out. He's pracited with it and knows all its tricks.
    Interesting. Weapon styles would work well...and would segue nicely with the Weapon Group Proficiency system, which I was contemplating. I'll consider that.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2007

    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Dreadnaught, v1.0

    Lappy like dreadnaught class. Lappy think Fax should make features that let dreadnaught help out allies and not just self.

    Dreadnaught hard to knock down. Maybe dreadnaught provide defense or cover for friends? That way, dreadnaught could clear way for puny friends.


    EDIT: Lappy think Innis Cabal's idea good too.
    Last edited by Lappy9000; 2008-12-13 at 10:29 PM.

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