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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Monk/druid gestalt?

    Planning on making a monk/druid, (game level is four, everything allowed (except probably natural spell)) on the grounds that druid is overpowered anyway, so adding AC, speed, and flurry can only improve matters. Tips? Comments? Recommendations on race?

    Also, does does monk unarmed/animal form type damage interact? Do I just pick the better one, or do they stack, or what?
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    The Minx's Avatar

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    Default Re: Monk/druid gestalt?

    Quote Originally Posted by shadow_archmagi View Post
    Planning on making a monk/druid, (game level is four, everything allowed (except probably natural spell)) on the grounds that druid is overpowered anyway, so adding AC, speed, and flurry can only improve matters. Tips? Comments? Recommendations on race?

    Also, does does monk unarmed/animal form type damage interact? Do I just pick the better one, or do they stack, or what?
    Just pick the better one, I guess.

    Remember to use the table for large monks, since you're probably going to be a dire bear or some such.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Monk/druid gestalt?

    Wild Shape makes you lose your natural attacks, and a Monk's unarmed strike sort-of-kind-of falls into that category. The AC Bonus is an (Ex) class ability and a dodge bonus, so it stays, along with Fast Movement.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Monk/druid gestalt?

    You can make Unarmed Strikes regardless of form, including Flurry of Blows, and you can use any of your current form's natural weapons as secondary attacks. Secondary attacks are made at -5 to hit, or -2 with Multiattack, and add only half Str bonus to damge, though rake attacks don't suffer the attack penalty. For example, a Druid 8// Monk 8 in Dire Lion form would be able to use Flurry of Blows to get one extra unarmed strike but make all his attacks for the round at -1, here's the attack routine without Multiattack:
    Charge, Pounce, Flurry of Blows
    Unarmed Strike +11/+11/+6, 2d8+7
    2 Claws secondary +6 each, 1d6+3
    2 Rakes secondary +11 each, 1d6+3
    Bite secondary +6, 1d8+3 plus Improved Grab

    I'd go Human and get Improved Grapple, Combat Reflexes, and Improved Trip for your Monk bonus feats. Take Power Attack and Multiattack at 1, Natural Bond at 3, and Leap Attack at 9, or at 6 if Natural Spell isn't available. Get a Fleshraker companion (MM3) at level 4, Natural Bond will negate the Level -3 drawback. Another idea would be to use the Druidic Avenger variant from UA, which trades your animal companion for the Rage and Fast Movement Barbarian abilities. In that case, get Extra Rage at 1 and move Multiattack to 3 instead of Natural Bond.

    You should also consider switching Monk for Swordsage from Tome of Battle, using the Unarmed variant detailed in the Adaptation section on page 20.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: Monk/druid gestalt?

    You get to do Unarmed Strikes as your primary attacks (be creative, there're always parts of the body without natural attacks, or parts of the parts doing natural attacks that don't participate in it) and Natural Attacks as secondary - pick Multiattack and go to town. I made very successful use of this concept at the Gestalt Warrior Arena (no spellcasting - I was a Wildshape Ranger/Master of Many Forms instead of Druid - turned into Sanguaro Sentinel, added Wis and Con [Fist of the Forests] to AC and wrecked with the combination of maneuvers and vast amounts of damage).

    So yea, I suggest straight Druid on one side with Unarmed Swordsage or Monk/Fist of the Forests with maybe a small Barbarian-dip (for Pounce) or whatever. Just stick to the nature-theme; all of this goes there, but Monk and FotF allows you to reflavour it that way.

    EDIT: Friggin' ninjas.
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  6. - Top - End - #6
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Monk/druid gestalt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishy View Post
    Wild Shape makes you lose your natural attacks, and a Monk's unarmed strike sort-of-kind-of falls into that category. The AC Bonus is an (Ex) class ability and a dodge bonus, so it stays, along with Fast Movement.
    Improved Unarmed Strike is a feat, you keep your feats when Wild Shaped.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Orc in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Monk/druid gestalt?

    speaking of ninjas, they would basically get you everything a monk would, except for the speed bonus, and it would get you sudden strike and ghost step stuff. if natural spell is banned, you might want strong-heart halfling for small size and bonus feat and other jazz. you probably want to be a summoner since nat. spell is banned, so take that feat that gives your summons +4 str and con.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Everyman's Avatar

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    Default Re: Monk/druid gestalt?

    Quick note: The following advice assumes you can't take Natural Spell. If you do end up being able to take it, I'd advise against it due to the extreme cheese value. Of course, gestalt is all about the gouda anyway, so if you want it, go for it.

    Being unable to cast spells while wildshaped means you should consider focusing on buffs. As a druid, you've got Magic Fang (great even when you don't wild shape), Stoneskin, and a slew of other great buffs (personal favorite: Meld with Stone). Pick a few out that compliment your fighting style (up-front brawling, sneaky guerilla, dodge expert) and get them cast first before combat. There is a great spell in the Spell Compendium that gives you a bonus to Wisdom equal to your caster level (Owl something?), which can help boost your saves (Stunning Fist and spell DCs) AND your AC.

    I have no wildshape recommendations (not a druid player, usually), but I would recommend you develop a favorite form for brawling (bear or lion) and at least two good movement ones, just to take advantage of all those movement bonuses your monk levels grant.

    All in all, just try and have fun.

    PS. Remember to wildshape into a panda at least once while using your kung-fu skills.
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  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    monty's Avatar

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    Default Re: Monk/druid gestalt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarkahn View Post
    Being unable to cast spells while wildshaped means you should consider focusing on buffs. As a druid, you've got Magic Fang (great even when you don't wild shape), Stoneskin, and a slew of other great buffs (personal favorite: Meld with Stone). Pick a few out that compliment your fighting style (up-front brawling, sneaky guerilla, dodge expert) and get them cast first before combat. There is a great spell in the Spell Compendium that gives you a bonus to Wisdom equal to your caster level (Owl something?), which can help boost your saves (Stunning Fist and spell DCs) AND your AC.
    Owl's Wisdom. It's core, obviously.

    The problem with that strategy is that all of the buffs you mentioned are either 1 or 10 min/level, which means that they will rarely be useful unless you know in advance you're going into combat, because in combat, by the time you cast one or two of them, wildshape, and start attacking, the fight will be almost over anyway. The only other reasonable option I can think of is Persist cheese, which I'm assuming is also banned if Natural Spell is.
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    Sarah, human gestalt druid/totemist
    Adrian, human rogue
    Calypso, half-nymph human gestalt druid/miscellaneous


  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Sstoopidtallkid's Avatar

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    Default Re: Monk/druid gestalt?

    Quote Originally Posted by monty View Post
    Owl's Wisdom. It's core, obviously.

    The problem with that strategy is that all of the buffs you mentioned are either 1 or 10 min/level, which means that they will rarely be useful unless you know in advance you're going into combat, because in combat, by the time you cast one or two of them, wildshape, and start attacking, the fight will be almost over anyway. The only other reasonable option I can think of is Persist cheese, which I'm assuming is also banned if Natural Spell is.
    Extend Spell works nearly as well as Persist for the 10 min/level spells.
    [/sarcasm]
    FAQ is not RAW!
    Avatar by the incredible CrimsonAngel.
    Saph:It's surprising how many problems can be solved by one druid spell combined with enough aggression.
    I play primarily 3.5 D&D. Most of my advice will be based off of this. If my advice doesn't apply, specify a version in your post.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    monty's Avatar

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    Default Re: Monk/druid gestalt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sstoopidtallkid View Post
    Extend Spell works nearly as well as Persist for the 10 min/level spells.
    At what level? At level 6, an extended 10/level spell lasts two hours. Over a standard adventuring day, that'll still eat up your spell slots pretty quickly if you're casting multiple buffs.
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  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Monk/druid gestalt?

    Quote Originally Posted by monty View Post
    At what level? At level 6, an extended 10/level spell lasts two hours. Over a standard adventuring day, that'll still eat up your spell slots pretty quickly if you're casting multiple buffs.
    A standard adventuring day is 2 hours. Think about how quickly your party goes through 4 combats. Unless you're traveling, the time between them is extremely short. 2 hours should cover it easily.
    [/sarcasm]
    FAQ is not RAW!
    Avatar by the incredible CrimsonAngel.
    Saph:It's surprising how many problems can be solved by one druid spell combined with enough aggression.
    I play primarily 3.5 D&D. Most of my advice will be based off of this. If my advice doesn't apply, specify a version in your post.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Monk/druid gestalt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sstoopidtallkid View Post
    A standard adventuring day is 2 hours. Think about how quickly your party goes through 4 combats. Unless you're traveling, the time between them is extremely short. 2 hours should cover it easily.
    And I'm sure while you're in the dungeon, the monsters will nicely attack you within the 2-hour window and leave you alone the rest of the day. Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

    Unless you're rope-tricking through the rest of the day, but now the wizard's burning extra slots instead.
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    Adrian, human rogue
    Calypso, half-nymph human gestalt druid/miscellaneous


  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Sstoopidtallkid's Avatar

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    Default Re: Monk/druid gestalt?

    Quote Originally Posted by monty View Post
    And I'm sure while you're in the dungeon, the monsters will nicely attack you within the 2-hour window and leave you alone the rest of the day. Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

    Unless you're rope-tricking through the rest of the day, but now the wizard's burning extra slots instead.
    Generally, yes. After 4 fights the party is tired, the Fighter is nigh-dead, the casters are out of spells, and the Rogue was just unpetrified after his 3rd failed Search check. Rope Trick happens after the 4th fight, and generally 4 fights happen within an hour of each other, maybe more, maybe less.
    [/sarcasm]
    FAQ is not RAW!
    Avatar by the incredible CrimsonAngel.
    Saph:It's surprising how many problems can be solved by one druid spell combined with enough aggression.
    I play primarily 3.5 D&D. Most of my advice will be based off of this. If my advice doesn't apply, specify a version in your post.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    monty's Avatar

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    Default Re: Monk/druid gestalt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sstoopidtallkid View Post
    Generally, yes. After 4 fights the party is tired, the Fighter is nigh-dead, the casters are out of spells, and the Rogue was just unpetrified after his 3rd failed Search check. Rope Trick happens after the 4th fight, and generally 4 fights happen within an hour of each other, maybe more, maybe less.
    I suppose what this comes down to is how your games tend to be played, then.
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    Adrian, human rogue
    Calypso, half-nymph human gestalt druid/miscellaneous


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