New Feat: Immune Immunity

[togapika]

Immune Immunity
This feat can only be taken by a character with immunity, such as immunity to fire, or immunity to fear.
Benefit:
This feat makes any immunity possessed by the character not able to be overcome by any means Especially any damn feats, class abilities, or the like that were only made for overcoming something that shouldn't be able to be overridden.

Self serving?
Yes.

Totally right?
Yes!

[Jasdoif]

Totally bitter?

[Agrippa]

I like it.

[Primal Fury]

What feats can get around immunities exactly?

[MeklorIlavator]

Why are you making this? What does it bring to the game?

Also, this smells of adversarial DMing, which just leads to a bad experience for all involved.

[Samurai Jill]

What happens if someone takes Immune Immunity WRT Immune Immunity?

[Knaight]

Penetrate Immunity
Benifit: One Immune Immunity affect can be ignored per time this feat is taken.
Normal: Immune Immunity actually makes immunities count as being immune.

Arms race time. That said, Immune Immunity would be a good idea for when you just really, really need to emphasize the immunity. Sure you can burn a red dragon, sorry the fire elemental is still out.

[AmberVael]

What feats can get around immunities exactly?

Searing Metamagic. Piercing Cold metamagic.

[Innis Cabal]

What feats can get around immunities exactly?

A wide varity thanks to Sandstorm and Frostburn

[lesser_minion]

I like the idea, but I generally find that the stupidest 'workarounds' are the Orb spells (see strips 518 and 519).

So wizards and sorcerers now have a spell that can hit almost anything. With no defence except an attack roll. While they do a lot less damage than a typical single-target spell of their level, it doesn't get around the question - how can they justify ignoring SR?

It might help to extend it to make sure that any spell which directly affects you is subject to any Spell Resistance you posses, rather than just when the spell writer feels like it.

[Shpadoinkle]

I like the idea, but I generally find that the stupidest 'workarounds' are the Orb spells (see strips 518 and 519).

So wizards and sorcerers now have a spell that can hit almost anything. With no defence except an attack roll. While they do a lot less damage than a typical single-target spell of their level, it doesn't get around the question - how can they justify ignoring SR?

It might help to extend it to make sure that any spell which directly affects you is subject to any Spell Resistance you posses, rather than just when the spell writer feels like it.

It gets around SR because, apparently according to WotC (Note that I am not endorsing this, I think it's incredibly ****ing stupid myself): Since they're Conjuration spells instead of Evocation spells (like they should be), you're not really sending MAGIC energy at the target, but instead you're sending NORMAL energy that you've just brought from somewhere else.

[lesser_minion]

Since they're Conjuration spells instead of Evocation spells (like they should be), you're not really sending MAGIC energy at the target, but instead you're sending NORMAL energy that you've just brought from somewhere else.

Yeah, that's kind of the way I guessed they thought it worked.

I think maybe WotC should have brushed up on pseudo-physics though. They are expecting something that should not be able to sustain itself by mundane means to travel at least 9 metres to strike a target.

When it cannot sustain itself by mundane means...!?

How do they pull that one off?

An Acid Arrow is justified in bypassing SR. Not an Orb of Fire.

I'm guessing the Batman issue had got out of hand by the time the spells were written, hence the 'bypass-everything-with-a-touch-attack' rule - after all, they couldn't recall all the PHBs just because someone figured out that combining the right non-blaster spells = 'Win D&D' - but that rule is still not a good idea.

I need to start thinking of all the catgirls...

[Athaniar]

Immune Immune Immunity
Prerequisite: Immune Immunity
Benefit: Your Immune Immunity cannot be overcome by Penetrate Immunity.

[magic_unlocked]

Like it was mentioned in one of the above posts, making this would be like an Arms Race. However, the rule on conjurations, is valid. However, you should not be allowed to conjure certain things. If you look at the PHB, I believe that most damaging conjuration spells, are acid. After all, it is a chemical reaction that can be self-sustaining. Orb of Acid, is just that, an orb of conjured chemicals being magically propelled to the target. An orb of sonic, I can't see it.

There's my 2 cp.

[Dairun Cates]

For the record, I think he's also going with things like the rogue feat that allows you to sneak attack undead and constructs.

[lesser_minion]

Sorry, I should have been more specific about the spells I'm annoyed with - you're right, Orb of Acid should be OK. Orb of Fire and Orb of Sonic (and Orb of Force) should be right out. I think extending this feat to protect resistances from sneakarounds like this should be OK though. That would give:

Protect Resistance [General]
Prerequisites: You must have some form of immunity or resistance
Benefit: This feat protects you from strange workarounds to your magical defenses. If you have Spell Resistance, then it applies to any targeted or area spell, and also to all effect spells which then direct energy against the target, even if they currently forbid it. This also prevents casters from gaining bonuses from non-Core anti-Spell Resistance spells.

Normal: Spells can disallow SR when it should apply for whatever reason they want, and you can have a spell that removes or grants bonuses against an opponent's spell resistance, completely defeating the point (frustrating as it is for a spell to fail)

EDIT:I'm not sure about blocking Sneak Attack vs. Undead feats and the like, because I'm not sure if I agree with that immunity. Especially when you also have Leather Armour of Anti-Sneak Attack Fortification for all those druids as well.

[Kantolin]

I am confused. Two people have said that acid arrow does not overcome spell resistance.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/acidArrow.htm

Are we looking at the same Acid Arrow? O_o

[lesser_minion]

Yeah, I was looking at the 3.0 PHB version, which allows SR. Sorry about the mistake, and thanks for pointing that out.

[The Minx]

Immune Immunity
This feat can only be taken by a character with immunity, such as immunity to fire, or immunity to fear.
Benefit:
This feat makes any immunity possessed by the character not able to be overcome by any means Especially any damn feats, class abilities, or the like that were only made for overcoming something that shouldn't be able to be overridden.

Self serving?
Yes.

Totally right?
Yes!

If it is self-serving, then it is NOT right.

Immunity is not something which shouldn't be able to be overridden. There is a reason why immovable barriers and irresistible forces should not be applicable under any and all circumstances.

[lesser_minion]

I think I'm of the opinion that immunities and resistances should have a very good reason to be bypassable, so this idea does make sense to me in general. I accept that it might not always be appropriate, however - examples of when immunity bypass is justified in balance terms are below, but in many cases the fluff for immunity bypass needs to be better. There are also some slightly idiotic workarounds out there which really just should not exist.

Shatter Mind Blank is good, because psions have real trouble against undead/mind-affecting-immunity types, more so than diviners or enchanters. Better still, this one isn't affected by the Feat above.

Feats that grant sneak attack vs. undead might be OK, because Sneak Attack is a defining feature of the rogue, and they are currently useless against undead.

However, for the rogue I still think a better idea would be to give them more options so that they can take down Undead by being creative instead of by handing out any enhanced abilities to sneak attack. Maybe alternative sneak attacks - a 'No Reflex Save' attack maybe so that they can sneak around and throw stuff.

[Heliomance]

Actually, immovable barriers and irresistible forces are mutually exclusive. The presence of one in a universe means that the other cannot exist.

[The Minx]

Actually, immovable barriers and irresistible forces are mutually exclusive. The presence of one in a universe means that the other cannot exist.

That was sort of my point.

I think I'm of the opinion that immunities and resistances should have a very good reason to be bypassable, so the feat does make sense to me. If a character class is completely dependent on a particular type of attack, then this feat could be unbalanced - examples of when immunity bypass is justified in balance terms are below, but in many cases the fluff for immunity bypass needs to be better.

You mean "doesn't", right? Because the other stuff you wrote seems to indicate that you meant that.

[Checkmate]

Actually, immovable barriers and irresistible forces are mutually exclusive. The presence of one in a universe means that the other cannot exist.

Your logic just made my day.

[magic_unlocked]

Seems like we have a good debate going on here. I think I'll lurk around a bit and see what happens. In the mean time, I'll have more rum. >_>

[Checkmate]

I think this is just as interesting as the issue of whether or not a level 20 vampire monk is supposed to become an outsider or not.

[magic_unlocked]

That is interesting, but, for a level 20 monk, you become a Native Outsider. There really isn't anything special about being a native outsider, other than claiming that you are a native outsider. That, and (if yer mortal) yer immune to hold/dominate person. >_>

[Oracle_Hunter]

Actually, immovable barriers and irresistible forces are mutually exclusive. The presence of one in a universe means that the other cannot exist.

But is an omnipotent being immune to paradoxes? If Ey is, then Ey could create both in a single universe.

If Ey isn't immune, then is Ey really omnipotent?

[lesser_minion]

You mean "doesn't", right? Because the other stuff you wrote seems to indicate that you meant that.

The logic... it burns us, preciousssss!

On a serious note, I've edited the post to clarify what I meant. Sorry about the confusion.

[Checkmate]

That is interesting, but, for a level 20 monk, you become a Native Outsider. There really isn't anything special about being a native outsider, other than claiming that you are a native outsider. That, and (if yer mortal) yer immune to hold/dominate person. >_>

Well, wouldn't a vampire monk become immune for turning and rebuking as she is treated as an outsider for the purpose of spells and magical effects and rebuking is a supernatural ability, and thus magical.

[magic_unlocked]

Actually, no, not really. There are some undead outsiders out there, I believe that the Nightwalker is one.