Dex to Damage With Thrown Weapons [3.5]

[Ascension]

I'm trying to build a "Batman" build, a sneaky, batarang dagger-throwing, bat-winged gestalt druid (using the Aspect of Nature variant). Between Halfling Paragon and the Agility aspect I think I can get my Dex to 28-32 before factoring in magic items, depending on how heavily I focus on Dexterity vs. Wisdom (36 point buy). Is there any easy way I can apply all that Dex to damage? This thread suggests Shadow Blade and the Dragon Compendium Deadeye Shot feat for this purpose, but Shadow Blade specifies melee damage and according to Crystal Keep the Deadeye Shot feat does something else entirely.

The ECL at the start of the campaign is 6, but I'm planning long-term (since I can't even use the Agility aspect until level 8).

[Mad Wizard]

Off the top of my head, I would say to check the Master Thrower PrC in the Complete Warrior, but I'm not entirely sure.

[RMS Oceanic]

I've got Dragon Compendium Here:

DEAD EYE [GENERAL]
Your precision with ranged weapons translates into
more telling strikes than you could normally make.
Prerequisites: Dex 17, Point Blank Shot, Weapon
Focus (any ranged weapon), base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You may add your Dexterity bonus on
damage rolls made with ranged weapons for which
you have the Weapon Focus feat, so long as the target
is within 30 feet.
Special: Dead Eye does not increase the damage dealt
to creatures immune to critical hits.
A fighter may select Dead Eye as one of his fighter
bonus feats.

It's not perfect, but I think getting Dex AND Str isn't bad.

EDIT: Also, according to errata, it's a BAB of +1, not +14.

[Ascension]

Blast. BAB +14 kills me.

I guess I should skip Halfling Paragon and just focus on Rogue for the Sneak Attack dice.

BAB +1? Far more usable!

[RMS Oceanic]

As I mentioned in my Errata, it's +1, not +14. That was a typo in the book.

Also, since this is a ranged weapon thread, I might as well ask: what can increase the effective range of Poitn Blank Shot, Sneak Attack and other such abilities?

[tonberrian]

Use Bloodstorm Blade to treat thrown attacks as melee and qualify for Shadow Blade.

[Ascension]

Use Bloodstorm Blade to treat thrown attacks as melee and qualify for Shadow Blade.

I would, but I need to keep one side pure druid, at least until level eight, and the build's starting to get pretty crowded, even for gestalt.

[monty]

Use Bloodstorm Blade to treat thrown attacks as melee and qualify for Shadow Blade.

And then Weapon Finesse to get Dex back to hit, of course.

[tonberrian]

And then Weapon Finesse to get Dex back to hit, of course.

Of course. Get that by taking three levels of Swashbuckler opposite the Druid and you can have Int to damage as well. Every little bit helps.

EDIT: So what's the other side, then? To be effective at throwing daggers, you need to have some way of having the daggers coming back to you. From what I've seen, Bloodstorm Blade is easily the best way to do this. Quick Draw needs a crapload of daggers to work with, and anything else requires another PrC.

[Ascension]

Is Halfling Paragon worth it or should I drop that? And should I go for Master Thrower or Bloodstorm Blade first?

[Keld Denar]

I'd take BSB first. It gives much better benefits. 4 levels are really all you need. Then get the 5 levels of MT to pick up Palm Throw. Palm Throw is REALLY good.

Take a look at my Flick the Flaming Dagger Flinger build. Its on the forums here.

[KevLar]

I could swear that the feat (Dead Eye) was originally printed (in a Dragon magazine issue) with a +1, and then errata'd in the Dragon Compendium to +14.

Makes slightly more sense, too. If you have 2 feats and 17 Dex, a BAB of +1 is pretty much a given.

I'll see if I can find it.

[monty]

Bloodstorm Blade really is useful. Lightning Ricochet is a big one - you can full attack with a single dagger (two with Palm Throw, if you're going Master Thrower), which gives you much better returns on enhancement investments.

[RMS Oceanic]

Wizards has Dragon Compendium errata on their website somewhere: it's meant to be +1.

Also, since this is a ranged weapon thread, I might as well ask: what can increase the effective range of Point Blank Shot, Sneak Attack and other such abilities?

[NEO|Phyte]

Also, since this is a ranged weapon thread, I might as well ask: what can increase the effective range of Point Blank Shot, Sneak Attack and other such abilities?

Crossbow Sniper lets you sneak attack/skirmish at 60', and also gives you half your dex mod to damage, when using a crossbow that you have Weapon Focus for. It's a general feat from the PHBII.

[Quietus]

If you want to go crossbows, Crossbow Sniper adds 1/2 your dex to damage, and doubles range of precision strikes made with crossbows. It's in one of the completes, not sure which.. I want to say Adventurer?

[tonberrian]

Order of the Bow Initiate 10 (Comp. Warrior) extends it to 60' for all ranged attacks, but it's not worth it.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

The X Stat to Y Bonus thread in Tonberrian's sig is always useful. It mentions a Fighter variant from Dragon 310, Champion of Correlion Loriathen[sp?], and the Feycraft template for magic items from DMGII.

[tonberrian]

Yes, it is always useful. That's why it says "always useful". However, you should always look at the primary source. Case in point - Feycraft weapon template actually makes things eligible for Weapon Finesse - it doesn't mention weapon damage at all.

Edit: Okay, Dex to damage, then.

[woodenbandman]

^Treats it as 1 category smaller for weapon damage.

[Curmudgeon]

Also, since this is a ranged weapon thread, I might as well ask: what can increase the effective range of Poitn Blank Shot, Sneak Attack and other such abilities?

Telling Blow (Players Handbook II) can increase the range for sneak attack and skirmish. Telling Blow triggers sneak/skirmish damage on any critical hit even

• if the target has concealment
• past 30' range
• if you haven't moved 10+'

The problem, of course, is that you need to make critical hits for Telling Blow to be worth the feat expenditure. So a wide threat range -- for both melee and ranged weapons -- is essential. A keen rapier works well for melee. Crossbows are generally better than bows for threat range, but most are still not ideal. However, a great crossbow (Races of Stone) threatens on 18-20. Casting Keen Edge on the bolts will make this 15-20. You'll need Exotic Weapon Proficiency (great crossbow), plus magic and maybe a feat to allow full attacks (and a reasonable DM to allow great crossbows to benefit the the same as heavy crossbows in feats and whatnot, since great crossbows weren't around yet when Rapid Reload was written). Rapid Reload or the Quick Loading enhancement (Magic Item Compendium) takes care of some of the speed issue (reducing reload time from a full round to a move action) for either one feat or a +1 enhancement cost. You can get up to full attack speed (free action reloading) by adding the Self-loading enhancement (Arms and Equipment Guide) to either of the above for an additional 10,000 gp enhancement cost. (These do stack as explicitly stated on page 116 of AaEG.)

Telling Blow is only a marginal investment even with a wide threat range on both melee and ranged weapons. What pushes it to be worthwhile is synergy with the Craven feat (Champions of Ruin). Craven adds +1 point of damage per character level to all sneak attacks. While the normal sneak attack damage is in d6s and thus cannot be multiplied on a critical hit, the extra damage from Craven is not dice, and will get multiplied on a critical sneak attack.

Multiplying Damage

Sometimes you multiply damage by some factor, such as on a critical hit. Roll the damage (with all modifiers) multiple times and total the results. Note: When you multiply damage more than once, each multiplier works off the original, unmultiplied damage.

Exception: Extra damage dice over and above a weapon’s normal damage are never multiplied.

So if you make a critical hit, Telling Blow adds sneak attack damage to the critical. Craven adds a non-dice bonus to the sneak attack, and this non-dice bonus will get multiplied by the critical.

Because of the expense in both feats and magical enhancements, this is an option for higher-level characters.