[3.5] Sacred Watcher

[KevLar]

Sacred Watcher is a template from BoED, the deathless equivalent of a ghost. And, as far as I know, the only incorporeal deathless out there. (Are there more? I'd be glad to know.) And I have a couple questions about it.

One, the sample encounter is a fighter 5/sacred watcher, and three of the feats (Blind-Fight, Improved Initiative and Power Attack) are marked with a B - for bonus feats. No bonus feats are mentioned in the "Creating a Sacred Watcher". I think I'm missing an important rule here. What gives?
EDIT- Oh. The Fighter bonus feats. Never mind, then.

Two, the entry has obviously been copied/pasted from the Ghost, because it mentions "1 to 3 other special attacks described below", and yet the only special attack you can find below is the Positive Energy Touch. Am I missing something?

And three (related to two)... isn't that an awfully weak creature? It's a CR 7 encounter (5 from the fighter + 2 from the template) whose damage potential versus a normal party - and by that, I mean living and corporeal, alignment is irrelevant - is... 2d6 per round. Versus undead, add the frightening amount 2d8+5 positive energy. 5 times/day. Most of the CR comes from the fighter levels, which are completely worthless except for BAB. I mean, OK, it's like a ghost, incorporeal and flying and stealthy and all, so the defenses are OK... but offenses? What danger could that CR 7 pose?

The ghost equivalent (again, fighter 5 for base) from MM had at least Malevolence. And you had the option to customize it with Frightful Moan (boo!) or Telekinesis or Horrific Appearance... powerful stuff, which could make a challenging or at least inconvenient enemy for the party. How does the Sacred Watcher justify his CR, exactly?

[woodenbandman]

The question to be asked in this situation is how does CR justify the sacred watcher template. CR is so brokenly wrong it's not even funny.

[Malacode]

I've never found CR to work, expecially when dealing with templates. Templates below about +2 LA or +2 CR just stop being useful after, say, ten levels, which means that such a template on anything above said tenth level DECREASES power while either keeping CR the same, or increasing it... THe same applies to all templtes, just that the cap level of usefullness is different. The only way to reliably design a level aprropriate encounter is to double check it youself

[mikej]

I've never found CR to work, expecially when dealing with templates. Templates below about +2 LA or +2 CR just stop being useful after, say, ten levels, which means that such a template on anything above said tenth level DECREASES power while either keeping CR the same, or increasing it... THe same applies to all templtes, just that the cap level of usefullness is different. The only way to reliably design a level aprropriate encounter is to double check it youself

+1

Speaking from experience, sending a Werewolf X class NPC at my PCs is pretty redundant past level 5. Looking at CR/ECL system in 3.5 its pretty lame, we had Vampire & Saint template PCs work perfertly fine without being to overpowered.

To make something like the Sacred Watcher to work, you need to put forth a lot of effort. In my opinion most of the challenged from facing such templated opponent is how my PCs come in contact or the evironment its placed in.

[Kaiyanwang]

+1

Speaking from experience, sending a Werewolf X class NPC at my PCs is pretty redundant past level 5. Looking at CR/ECL system in 3.5 its pretty lame, we had Vampire & Saint template PCs work perfertly fine without being to overpowered.

Vampire has weakness but.. saint? Seems to me quite powerful..

[mikej]

Vampire has weakness but.. saint? Seems to me quite powerful..

Touche

Now its LA isn't right for all the benefits with little drawbacks, but I only factor " most act exalted ", most players see all the cool abilities but not the role-play archor tied to it.

Edit: Sstoopidtallkid basically covered most of it.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Vampire has weakness but.. saint? Seems to me quite powerful..

2 LA +massive RP requirements. The loss of HD/BAB/saves is pretty hard to handle.

[Kaiyanwang]

Now its LA isn't right for all the benefits with little drawbacks, but I only factor " most act exalted ", most players see all the cool abilities but not the role-play archor tied to it.

ME touche. *hides behind hard cover*