LGBTAitP #31: Cuddles Are On Back Order. Have Some Snuggles!

[Arachu]

Hey thread~ *Hugs everybody*


~Bianca

[Lady Serpentine]

Hey thread~ *Hugs everybody*


~Bianca

*Glomps Bianca*

Hello!~

[Heliomance]

So about a month ago, one of my friends was mugged. He (FtM) came in the next day sporting a beauty of a black eye, a couple of cracked ribs, a fair grin, and an account of giving as good as he got.

Today, he went on a rant about not letting a friend walk home alone after we'd been out for the evening, and while he didn't say it in so many words, he heavily implied that he'd been raped, not just mugged.

I'm really not sure what to do or say now.

[Karen Lynn]

Hugs? I... I have no idea...

[Asta Kask]

Wednesday: the week gets worse. Read if you want.

Spoiler

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Well, I didn't think it'd be possible, but my week got worse. I was informed at school today that two of the staff had died. The first one, an older secretary who I occasionally had conversations with on Thursday mornings (we have late start, so we come an hour later, although the buses don't come an hour later, so I'm stuck at school for an hour) had passed away this morning, I don't know how, but I think it was of old age. The second one was my PE teacher. I knew he was sick for the last couple weeks, but, it wasn't released yet how he died, but he had some heart issues, which is why he was gone. But I heard that he had several heart attacks and that's how he died. His sudden, unexpected death has re-opened some old wounds, some older than others, the newest one before this being in the summer. I can pretty much say that I'm finally broken. I feel like I'm clawing at a pit, waist deep in some substance that's slowly dragging me down, trying to get out, but I just can't. I'm just going to lie down and try to mourn alone, so I don't bother anyone. I only hope that things will get better, although, at this point, the only way this seems like it can only get better.

*tight hugs*

[Mina Kobold]

*HUGS/cookies for Akow and Tamsin's friend*

I honestly have no idea what to say or advice, other than to never lose hope that things can get better. I wish I could lend a hand or a word of wisdom, but I am far away and at a loss. ;_;

Though, I will suggest talking with someone about it, Akow. A therapist or close friend could help making the road through seem less lonely, right?


As for Tamsin, maybe be there for him if he needs it? If something terrible happened, he is the one who knows when to talk about it, so just being there and being a friend may be the best thing to do.

[Lentrax]

So about a month ago, one of my friends was mugged. He (FtM) came in the next day sporting a beauty of a black eye, a couple of cracked ribs, a fair grin, and an account of giving as good as he got.

Today, he went on a rant about not letting a friend walk home alone after we'd been out for the evening, and while he didn't say it in so many words, he heavily implied that he'd been raped, not just mugged.

I'm really not sure what to do or say now.

He was... But I... Oh. Oh my.

I have to agree with the kobold here. It is up to him to talk about it, but you can definitely make it known you are there to support and comfort if he does want to talk.

[Hazuki]

Hey all. I'm a long-time lesbian lurker in this thread, but that's not what I'm here to reveal. It has recently come to my attention that an MAAB friend of mine has been suffering from gender dysphoria for a long time. What I know of his story is that he's been dealing with these feelings since childhood, he's in College now, and has hidden them from everyone he knows, except for a few close friends that told him to get over it, his ex-girlfriend, his therapist, and me most recently.

'Tis not my area of expertise, so I was wondering if anybody here would be able to offer some general advice for him? Especially when dealing with less-than-agreeable friends?

[SiuiS]

Some of you may remember me talking about the kids a couple of doors down from me. I had an amusing encounter with them yesterday:

"Scuse me, people keep saying you're a man."
"I used to enjoy pretending to be one."
"Oh. I thought you liked pretending to be a woman."
"Nope. Other way round!"

I wonder what they'll think now? ^_^

Oh, you wicked creature; I approve.

I hate this. It is like we have this giant wall around our country and no one wants to see anything from outside of it. It is QUITE annoying

~Matthew~

What? No. No, think about it. Television is business. McDonalds doesn't sell whoppers, you have to go somewhere else for them. American television won't give British television for the same reason. But you have the Internet, I know you do. You're on it now. You can still watch nice things. It's just not, say, Payless Shoes' place to sell pants, and you shouldn't get mad at them for not carrying pants.

So... I don't really have a therapist. Is this a difference between american and english treatments? I had to see a psychiatrist, but... maybe I made myself look too together? O_o

Ounce of prevention, not pound of cure. You talk to people for catharsis all the time. a therapist is what people go for when self-medicating isn't enough.

What, incest?

Finally.

Hey thread~ *Hugs everybody*

Hi, Bianca!

So about a month ago, one of my friends was mugged. He (FtM) came in the next day sporting a beauty of a black eye, a couple of cracked ribs, a fair grin, and an account of giving as good as he got.

Today, he went on a rant about not letting a friend walk home alone after we'd been out for the evening, and while he didn't say it in so many words, he heavily implied that he'd been raped, not just mugged.

I'm really not sure what to do or say now.

I... Wow. this is why England shouldn't ban knives.

Hey all. I'm a long-time lesbian lurker in this thread, but that's not what I'm here to reveal. It has recently come to my attention that an MAAB friend of mine has been suffering from gender dysphoria for a long time. What I know of his story is that he's been dealing with these feelings since childhood, he's in College now, and has hidden them from everyone he knows, except for a few close friends that told him to get over it, his ex-girlfriend, his therapist, and me most recently.

'Tis not my area of expertise, so I was wondering if anybody here would be able to offer some general advice for him? Especially when dealing with less-than-agreeable friends?

Oh wow. um.
Rationality?

They say "get over it", but, you can prove thy it's a medical condition with serious ramifications (validate), find reputable citation both to bolster these diagnoses and to denigrate the 'it's all in your head' camp (verify) and maybe find information to pass along discretely? I know my life would be mug different if I had this information fifteen years ago.

It sounds like all these people are more interested in twir own comfort, an status quo. It's change back behavior; punish any deviancy until it stops. Other than "there is hope/You're not alone/platitude" there's not much else I can say...

[Mono Vertigo]

@Akowrules: my condolences. *hugs*
@Helio: holy crap.
Don't push the dialogue if he doesn't want, but be ready to lend a ear to him. If possible, encourage him to go to the police, and if he does, ensure he's got friends with him. Like psychotherapists, the police should be there to help, but you can't take the risk of them worsening the situation. If they start acting unprofessionally, his friends will be there to support him and complain about the agents to higher authorities.
I wish we didn't have to take in consideration the possibility of policemen being [REDACTED]. God damn.
Even if your friend does not want to get legal authorities involved, I am personally of the opinion it would be better if victims always filed complaints, so that we could catch more of those responsible, and legal authorities could start viewing the problem in a more realistic light. Of course, if he really doesn't want to do that, don't push him, either. He needs control over the situation he's in.

[Lea Plath]

Hey thread~ *Hugs everybody*


~Bianca

*Snugs* Why hello there :3

Now...*hugs for Tammy's friend and Akowrules* Wow...really wow...

[The Succubus]

@Akowrules: my condolences. *hugs*
@Helio: holy crap.
Don't push the dialogue if he doesn't want, but be ready to lend a ear to him. If possible, encourage him to go to the police, and if he does, ensure he's got friends with him. Like psychotherapists, the police should be there to help, but you can't take the risk of them worsening the situation. If they start acting unprofessionally, his friends will be there to support him and complain about the agents to higher authorities.
I wish we didn't have to take in consideration the possibility of policemen being [REDACTED]. God damn.
Even if your friend does not want to get legal authorities involved, I am personally of the opinion it would be better if victims always filed complaints, so that we could catch more of those responsible, and legal authorities could start viewing the problem in a more realistic light. Of course, if he really doesn't want to do that, don't push him, either. He needs control over the situation he's in.

Being the font of wisdom she is, Musashi has pretty much covered everything I was going to say. One third course of action presents itself - if your friend has a therapist, it might be worth raising it with them. I can't believe I'm typing this but the police will have to take the complaint more seriously if it comes from a professional source, as there's a paperwork trail to record it. It also has the potential benefit of his therapist being aware that support will be needed at some point.

[KenderWizard]

So about a month ago, one of my friends was mugged. He (FtM) came in the next day sporting a beauty of a black eye, a couple of cracked ribs, a fair grin, and an account of giving as good as he got.

Today, he went on a rant about not letting a friend walk home alone after we'd been out for the evening, and while he didn't say it in so many words, he heavily implied that he'd been raped, not just mugged.

I'm really not sure what to do or say now.

Okay, well, first, it's up to him whether or not he wants to share this with you/anyone. You obviously want to help, so to be honest, I'd be inclined to bring it up, carefully and considerately.
"Hey man, I noticed you seem pretty shaken by when you were attacked. Which makes sense, but I just wanted to make sure you're doing okay? Was it worse than you made it out to be?" If he deflects, that's fine, you made your intentions clear and if he changes his mind, he knows you're there.

If he does talk to you and it turns out he was sexually assaulted or raped, your job is to listen and to support his decisions. If he asks "What should I do?" you can give him some options (formal report to the police, talking to a therapist, going to a Rape Crises Centre ... do you have those? Or maybe an LGBT rights group?) But if he says "I don't want to go to the police about this." the answer is always "I understand and I support your decision." Only he can decide what's best for him. Not you and certainly not us.

Further notes on this kind of situation. Spoilered for real life being depressing.

Spoiler

Show

It'd be better if everyone who was attacked or raped felt like they could safely go to the law and be treated compassionately and fairly, and have a good chance of seeing their rapist brought to court and convicted. But that's not the world we live in. And rape victims know it. Sure, we need to slowly change that system, but the way to do that is not to pressure rape victims into reporting and going through the trauma of potentially transphobic/disinterested police, a slim chance of a trial, the gruelling weight of cross-examination and a pretty good chance of, after all that, seeing their rapist get away with it.

Hey all. I'm a long-time lesbian lurker in this thread, but that's not what I'm here to reveal. It has recently come to my attention that an MAAB friend of mine has been suffering from gender dysphoria for a long time. What I know of his story is that he's been dealing with these feelings since childhood, he's in College now, and has hidden them from everyone he knows, except for a few close friends that told him to get over it, his ex-girlfriend, his therapist, and me most recently.

'Tis not my area of expertise, so I was wondering if anybody here would be able to offer some general advice for him? Especially when dealing with less-than-agreeable friends?

I'm glad your friend has you! There's a whole internet out there for both you and her to read about this stuff and feel secure in addressing people who are ignorant or intolerant. ... And maybe find her some better friends, if you can't convince those ones...

[The Succubus]

Interesting tidbit from the world of sports:

http://espn.go.com/mma/story/_/id/90...ew-mma-license

It seems like she as a lot of support on her side, which is really encouraging.

(I first saw this story on Yahoo but given that the comments made me physically nauseous, I found a different source before putting it on here. )

[Heliomance]

Interesting tidbit from the world of sports:

http://espn.go.com/mma/story/_/id/90...ew-mma-license

It seems like she as a lot of support on her side, which is really encouraging.

(I first saw this story on Yahoo but given that the comments made me physically nauseous, I found a different source before putting it on here. )

The comments there are no better

Seriously, don't read the comments.

Y'know, I'd like to see an article like that about an FtM in a similar situation. I wonder if the comments would be condemning in the same way?

[The Succubus]

Sadly I suspect so. Transphobia is an equal opportunities form of being an *******.

EDIT: I didn't see the comments section before I put it up. -.-

[Lady Serpentine]

The comments there are... Sort of better. In the sense that at least there, you have to click to look at them, rather than being able to scroll into them accidentally.

[The Succubus]

One thing that gets raised over and over with these things is how men supposedly have greater strength or muscle mass than women.

Equine defecation.

If you were to compare an average forum poster such as I with her, who would you say has the greater muscle mass? Her, obviously. Having a different genital configuration makes absolutely zero difference when you start training because after a point, it's all academic anyways.

[Lentrax]

The saddest part is, is that now that everyone links all thier online accounts to facebook and twitter, and such, they are not anonyomous as they once were.

And they still say it.

How does one go around being bigoted against bigots?

Is it still bigotry?

edit: Totes agree with you Succubus. These people train to fight. Genitalia doesn't matter. Hormones don't matter.

I could deck myself out with cybernetics till the cows come home, but without training on how to fight against another person, I would still get my flabby rear end handed to me.

On a side note: Why don't "World Championships" have the highest ranked men and women compete gainst each other? How can you say you are the best if you can only compete against half the population?

[Asta Kask]

One thing that gets raised over and over with these things is how men supposedly have greater strength or muscle mass than women.

Equine defecation.

If you were to compare an average forum poster such as I with her, who would you say has the greater muscle mass? Her, obviously. Having a different genital configuration makes absolutely zero difference when you start training because after a point, it's all academic anyways.

The only thing I could think of is height. If she's very, very tall she would have an advantage of reach - although I don't think they'd ban a FAAB for being, say, 6' 6"tall.

[Heliomance]

One thing that gets raised over and over with these things is how men supposedly have greater strength or muscle mass than women.

Equine defecation.

If you were to compare an average forum poster such as I with her, who would you say has the greater muscle mass? Her, obviously. Having a different genital configuration makes absolutely zero difference when you start training because after a point, it's all academic anyways.

It is true though that genetic males find it a lot easier to put on muscle mass, and (I believe) on average have a higher strength ceiling.

That said, that's mostly controlled by hormones, so going on HRT does an awful lot to equalise you with the capabilities of the target gender.

It's one of the few things I'm not looking forward to from HRT, getting weaker. I enjoy the advantage my strength gives me at pole dancing, and I'm going to have to work hard to maintain that strength if/when I start HRT.

[The Succubus]

Have there ever been any actual scientific studies on this, with peer reviewed papers and whatnot?

[Mina Kobold]

Hey all. I'm a long-time lesbian lurker in this thread, but that's not what I'm here to reveal. It has recently come to my attention that an MAAB friend of mine has been suffering from gender dysphoria for a long time. What I know of his story is that he's been dealing with these feelings since childhood, he's in College now, and has hidden them from everyone he knows, except for a few close friends that told him to get over it, his ex-girlfriend, his therapist, and me most recently.

'Tis not my area of expertise, so I was wondering if anybody here would be able to offer some general advice for him? Especially when dealing with less-than-agreeable friends?

Wish I did, but I have both been lucky enough not to encounter particularly disagreeable friends and scared enough that I am not out to anyone I know in person. ^_^'

I'd say that preparing for whenever one wants to come out is a good idea, as is trying to influence people to be less disagreeable in general. Having people around who are accepting and supportive is really important, so looking for safe spaces or trying to make people less bigoted could be a good way to start.

The only thing I could think of is height. If she's very, very tall she would have an advantage of reach - although I don't think they'd ban a FAAB for being, say, 6' 6"tall.

It is true though that genetic males find it a lot easier to put on muscle mass, and (I believe) on average have a higher strength ceiling.

That said, that's mostly controlled by hormones, so going on HRT does an awful lot to equalise you with the capabilities of the target gender.

It's one of the few things I'm not looking forward to from HRT, getting weaker. I enjoy the advantage my strength gives me at pole dancing, and I'm going to have to work hard to maintain that strength if/when I start HRT.

Have to agree with Asta, if they would not throw out someone AFAB for having a genetic advantage, then there is no reason to throw out someone AMAB. Far as I understand, those who make it far in sports already tend to be genetically more fit for the sport than most people, so it seems to be a very arbitrary point.

As for getting weaker; I am not sure, but I think the actual effect is on building muscles, not on what muscle mass you can have. Hypothetically, you might be able to keep the same strength if you maintain the training necessary to avoid reducing your muscle mass. I am horribly uneducated on the specifics of hormonal influence on muscle build-up, though, so I could be far far far far off. ^_^'

Have there ever been any actual scientific studies on this, with peer reviewed papers and whatnot?

I have not seen any, but I presume it is likely that there are. What the studies showed could be anything, however. Wouldn't be the first time that something was taken as common knowledge/scientifically proven despite being utterly fallacious. Accursed lack of knowledge about this! >_<

[Worira]

On... men being stronger than women on average?

Yes, of course there are.

This isn't some zany fringe theory, it's an observable secondary sex characteristic.

[SiuiS]

@Akowrules: my condolences. *hugs*
@Helio: holy crap.
Don't push the dialogue if he doesn't want, but be ready to lend a ear to him. If possible, encourage him to go to the police, and if he does, ensure he's got friends with him. Like psychotherapists, the police should be there to help, but you can't take the risk of them worsening the situation. If they start acting unprofessionally, his friends will be there to support him and complain about the agents to higher authorities.
I wish we didn't have to take in consideration the possibility of policemen being [REDACTED]. God damn.
Even if your friend does not want to get legal authorities involved, I am personally of the opinion it would be better if victims always filed complaints, so that we could catch more of those responsible, and legal authorities could start viewing the problem in a more realistic light. Of course, if he really doesn't want to do that, don't push him, either. He needs control over the situation he's in.

I feel like less of a person for not even considering this.

One thing that gets raised over and over with these things is how men supposedly have greater strength or muscle mass than women.

Equine defecation.

If you were to compare an average forum poster such as I with her, who would you say has the greater muscle mass? Her, obviously. Having a different genital configuration makes absolutely zero difference when you start training because after a point, it's all academic anyways.

Aye. It's always fun to have that go-round.

It is true though that genetic males find it a lot easier to put on muscle mass, and (I believe) on average have a higher strength ceiling.

That said, that's mostly controlled by hormones, so going on HRT does an awful lot to equalise you with the capabilities of the target gender.

It's one of the few things I'm not looking forward to from HRT, getting weaker. I enjoy the advantage my strength gives me at pole dancing, and I'm going to have to work hard to maintain that strength if/when I start HRT.

What? No. You shouldn't get weaker unless you app maintaining your current fitness level. Estrogen stuffs promote fat building and inhibit muscle building, but that doesn't really affect day-to-day living. Most people live in the space where the bell curves align.

On... men being stronger than women on average?

Yes, of course there are.

This isn't some zany fringe theory, it's an observable secondary sex characteristic.

no, that one would get weaker if on hormone replacement therapy.
And while men have an advantage, a man and woman of equal proportions and muscle mass are equal in strength. Literally, the force transmitted, and levers involved, are the same. People assume that an Olympic class female bodybuilder will be weaker than a, say, male desk jockey who plays Wii sports for exercise every weekend. That's just not true.

[The Succubus]

On... men being stronger than women on average?

Yes, of course there are.

This isn't some zany fringe theory, it's an observable secondary sex characteristic.

Hmmm, thank you Worira.

So the next question would be - how large is this difference? Trying to pit two people of exactly identical strength against each other is unlikely to work as there is always some difference that comes into play. For example, two non-trans women decide to fight. Is it not unreasonable to assume that one will be stronger than the other, either through training or being naturally stronger? If that's the case then argument about whether Miss Fox should be allowed to compete in women's MMA instantly becomes irrelevant. If she's significantly stronger, then it's just a matter of moving her into a different weight or strength category with non trans women that are on an equal footing with her.

no, that one would get weaker if on hormone replacement therapy.
And while men have an advantage, a man and woman of equal proportions and muscle mass are equal in strength. Literally, the force transmitted, and levers involved, are the same. People assume that an Olympic class female bodybuilder will be weaker than a, say, male desk jockey who plays Wii sports for exercise every weekend. That's just not true.

Yes! This is the point I was rather clumsily trying to make! Thank you Sius.

[noparlpf]

So about a month ago, one of my friends was mugged. He (FtM) came in the next day sporting a beauty of a black eye, a couple of cracked ribs, a fair grin, and an account of giving as good as he got.

Today, he went on a rant about not letting a friend walk home alone after we'd been out for the evening, and while he didn't say it in so many words, he heavily implied that he'd been raped, not just mugged.

I'm really not sure what to do or say now.

Hmm. I'd suggest pressuring him to go to the cops regardless, if he just got mugged. Although, take into account what Kender said, if you're right, then pressuring him to go to the police might not be ideal. Aside from that, what Musashi and Succubus and others said.

Hey all. I'm a long-time lesbian lurker in this thread, but that's not what I'm here to reveal. It has recently come to my attention that an MAAB friend of mine has been suffering from gender dysphoria for a long time. What I know of his story is that he's been dealing with these feelings since childhood, he's in College now, and has hidden them from everyone he knows, except for a few close friends that told him to get over it, his ex-girlfriend, his therapist, and me most recently.

'Tis not my area of expertise, so I was wondering if anybody here would be able to offer some general advice for him? Especially when dealing with less-than-agreeable friends?

Let's see, aside from therapy stuff, maybe get more tolerant/supportive friends? I dunno. Or try to explain it to them and cite some stuff.

[SiuiS]

Hmmm, thank you Worira.

So the next question would be - how large is this difference? Trying to pit two people of exactly identical strength against each other is unlikely to work as there is always some difference that comes into play. For example, two non-trans women decide to fight. Is it not unreasonable to assume that one will be stronger than the other, either through training or being naturally stronger? If that's the case then argument about whether Miss Fox should be allowed to compete in women's MMA instantly becomes irrelevant. If she's significantly stronger, then it's just a matter of moving her into a different weight or strength category with non trans women that are on an equal footing with her.

The study under "of" specifically says that in people where muscle mass was similar/identical, the gender disparity evaporates.

From an arm chair standpoint, a male gets androgens all the time. So random exertion has a higher chance of producing muscle. Over the corse of a life time, that muscle pulls on the frame an can cause it to become more supportive, which can allow for more muscle. Anecdotally, this is why people who grow up on farms are depicted as broad of everything, because the labor involved isn't strenuous but it's constant. A female who does all this hard work will end up being broader, potentially stronger than a male who spent their childhood playing with model ships. So constant exposure would seem to improve your odds of having a higher end amount Of muscle mass.

The problem with athletes is they are usually top-end, so the cream of te crop will have much more obvious differences. But by dividing them into weight class, you solve this. A female in a certain set of parameters sits in the same bracket as a male – in those parameters. If you've got 30kg muscle mass, you're going to be on even footing with someone else who has 30kg muscle mass, if you remove size.

Being in a specific weight class means Fox is competing against women with the same current hormone level and same muscle mass capacity as herself.

[Astrella]

She has already been approved and several big organisations including this one but also the Olympics have specific rules regarding trans athletes. (2 years HRT in case of the Olympics I seem to recall being one of the conditions.) These rules would not exist if there was any risk of unfairness and are to ensure that competition is fair.

[The Succubus]

If it's okay for the Olympics, it should be okay for these guys as well. Just out of curiousity, have there been any medal winning trans athletes?