When the DM asks, "Are you sure?"

[Geordnet]

I always ask my plays that, then, even when there isn't anything, say in a very disappointed voice "Okay, if that's really what you want to do." And when they ask why I respond with "Oh, nothing, don't worry about it. Nothing now anyway." Just to scare/annoy the crap out of them.

Remind me not to be one of your players, either...

[TuggyNE]

The gate to the graveyard was only partway open (which, to me, would give the impression that something wasn't right in the enclosure).

Under the law of conservation of detail, yes, perhaps. It might also mean someone was just in there a little while ago, or that the caretaker doesn't do his job very well.

Without metagaming in that way it means nothing at all; there are a hundred reasons a gate might be partly open, and second-to-last on the list is "there are secretly wolves and wargs inside! roll initiative." (Last is of course "there are secretly demons inside! roll initiative.")

[Toofey]

That's a different problem entirely. In a game where the PCs' players expect them to be heroes who overcome the odds and defy destiny blah blah Big Damn Heroes blah, hearing that an enemy is too powerful will act as encouragement: the bigger the threat, the more awesome the PCs look when they defeat it, right?

It's extremely difficult to communicate whether the PCs are supposed to fight or flee, when the only channel of communication is scared-looking weaker NPCs telling them they can't.

Their god telling them point blank they're outmatched isn't a scared looking NPC. I agree that it's a matter of player expectation. It always amuses me. I typically have a set of steps I go through if the players are embarking on a very dangerous course of action, or the plot calls for a fight where everyone could TPK for a legit reason.

a fight or 2 ahead of time I check around to make sure people are cool with their characters being killed: in my group they always say they are, but never are.

If I think there's a chance of TPK/loss of gear, or know I am going to disjoin them I'll mention the utility of keeping backup equipment the session before. similarly they never seem to do this either.

Then, if they get killed, I point these things out, at this point I also point out that I have done this repeatedly, and this should stop surprising them.


That said If i never killed them they wouldn't feel like they won when they did. They've won some real nailbiters, and even when they've lost given some time to get over being upset they've agreed that it's a better story for it.

Me: Do you attack the ancient wizard

That's your mistake right there, my guys want to attack someone who has them outgunned, I'll let them after giving them an "are you sure" but I never ask "do you attack" unless I'm looking for a yes reply.

[Cerlis]

Remind me not to play with Trinoya as GM or Pickford as a Player.

Me either....

Obviously if you are going to ram someone you fire your torpedos at the same time (at impact)

You should know better

[Trinoya]

Me either....

Obviously if you are going to ram someone you fire your torpedos at the same time (at impact)

You should know better

After a statement such as that I not only have no doubt that you'd fit in with all my players, but you'd be the most successful one, out living all the rest.

[tommhans]

I guess "Are you sure" happens all the time.
When i was PC , one in the group decided to run into a room, the DM started smiling and said " are you sure" he said yes. He almost died of all the traps he triggered :P

Another time me and another dude decided to catapult into a castle, the dm again said are you sure? my character broke his leg but i was still fighting, killed the main bad guy by forcing him towards me in a tower, crawling out a tower and thenfire breathing on all the liquid and oil that was stored in there.

But ye now im DM, and the players do what they want but i have told them a giant invasion is on the clock, and they did this awesome magic show but i did tell them are you sure you want to do this? a main city got burned down and alot of people because of they were held this magic show. Some poor bastards got raped by giants :/ There was only one that actually said "guys maybe its not so smart to do this" .

But yeah im glad they did, was an amazing show :p

I guess are you sure can be used for several things, i ususally do it when its ridicolously stupid decisions :)

[Mastikator]

Me: You can barely see the lone wolf in the darkness.
Player: I shoot it.
Me: You hit it, it seems to take severe damage, it starts running away.
Player: I run after it.
Me: You run after the lone wolf into the dark night?
Player: ...no I remain with my group.

When I DM I think players deserve a good death.

[Lorsa]

This requires someone to reiterate the point: Always remember to describe things in detail to your players for EXACTLY the reasons shown here. Good stuff to remember.

It's impossible to explain everything in minute detail all the time. It would be unnecessary and slow down the play (and sometimes your real life time constraints puts pressure on your long detailed descriptions). Flow is just as important as description, so sometimes the players will base their actions on faulty or not complete information. That's when you tell them more details and ask if they want to reconsider. Also, quite often in the heat of battle people miss things because the brain sorts out information that isn't necessary when a big orc has an axe up your face.

[Deophaun]

The problem here is, thats nothing more than railroading him away from the location.

Please quote, exactly, anything I said that was railroading. Me thinks you are confused as to what the term means.

Either he can make a choice on the information his character can get on his own

How odd that of the four options I gave, three were exercises in giving the character varying levels of information. It's almost like I wanted the character to decide on a course of action based on the information the character had.

Having him do spot and listen checks is just about the only other way he could have legitimately warned him that something was up outside of asking, "Are you sure?"

Again, I think you are confused on the meaning of the word "legitimate." There is a reason that many DMs make spot and listen checks in secret, and that many rules systems encourage that secrecy. It's because knowing that you had to make a spot or listen check is metagame knowledge. It is most certainly illegitimate for a character to make decisions using knowledge it does not have ("I rolled a 4!).

[Amnestic]

"Oh look, a 75 foot tall and thick cube of adamantite just fell from the sky and blocked the only passage to the graveyard. MAYBE YOU SHOULD TURN AROUND NOW!!!"

'Carl': "Well duh. We gotta go sell this Adamantite now. A cube this size would be worth thousands upon thousands of gold!"

[Traab]

'Carl': "Well duh. We gotta go sell this Adamantite now. A cube this size would be worth thousands upon thousands of gold!"

And then he gets back to his group ready to sell it.

Shopkeep:" Sorry, that stuff aint worth nothing around these parts, that garbage falls from the sky here! Its just as well though, that graveyard has had all sorts of strange and scary things happening there, you might have been killed!"

[Vknight]

GM: ...too late. You take the damage.

Exactly. And he would moan and complain, and whine about how that wasn't fair. He left the group cause I was picking on him for this...

Here is I think the best one of those(I was GM)

Spoiler

Show

Me: You approach up to the ruins at the center of the island. Massive pillars stand in smaller and smaller circles leading inwards. The moment you step past the biting winds, and driving snow stops. The old man Raxeir points you to a massive pillar at the center of the ancient ruins.
There stands your prize 'He Whose Name Is Lost' and those that follow his teachings.
(To explain. The party were stuck on a frozen wasteland until they did this. With 5 different gangs/tribes on it. And a cult to 'HWNL', they were to find his cult and get information on it. The back-story to 'HWNL' being he learned how to create & shape things, so he was stripped bare of skin and thrown to the biting winds to die)

So they approach find a frozen corpse tied to a stack frozen in laughter.
What does that player decide to do? Steal the jewels stuck to the corpse.
(If you have played Skyrim you know who the Greybeards are. These guys were like that[I had yet to play Skyrim in irony] and there were 20 of them. One of which was that players characters father)

So after he has a 20 man cult staring him down. What is his next move? The rest of the party grovels. He charges.
He gets wrapped in chains. At this point the player is upset that they have this mysterious chain ability.
Gets more upset when they tie him to a pillar to spend the night without rest. Gets more upset when he can't push them around.
Next day tries it again this time his dad starts kicking his &^8$&%5.
They were sent there because of his connection to the cult leader...
Now they are told to leave.
The rest of the party has a bit more information that this cult does have magical capability but they could not confirm it was what they were looking for. They also learned that there employer does not pay the full amount if they mess up the job. So the guy tried to attack his employer, on the mans ship, with his crew.

Gm[Me]: Are you sure you want to attempt to steal the sword?
E: Yes
Gm: Your not good at pick-pocketing being a Warlock
E: I got to get that sword
Gm: He did beat you up in a solo fight without the aid of the sword
She rolled and failed and was now in trouble, facing off against a guy who beat her in single combat but now had a artifact level weapon. She wanted it back

I have several other times such as when they decided in a airship to ram a Blue Dragon

[Slipperychicken]

Here is I think the best one of those(I was GM)

Spoiler

Show

Me: You approach up to the ruins at the center of the island. Massive pillars stand in smaller and smaller circles leading inwards. The moment you step past the biting winds, and driving snow stops. The old man Raxeir points you to a massive pillar at the center of the ancient ruins.
There stands your prize 'He Whose Name Is Lost' and those that follow his teachings.
(To explain. The party were stuck on a frozen wasteland until they did this. With 5 different gangs/tribes on it. And a cult to 'HWNL', they were to find his cult and get information on it. The back-story to 'HWNL' being he learned how to create & shape things, so he was stripped bare of skin and thrown to the biting winds to die)

So they approach find a frozen corpse tied to a stack frozen in laughter.
What does that player decide to do? Steal the jewels stuck to the corpse.
(If you have played Skyrim you know who the Greybeards are. These guys were like that[I had yet to play Skyrim in irony] and there were 20 of them. One of which was that players characters father)

So after he has a 20 man cult staring him down. What is his next move? The rest of the party grovels. He charges.
He gets wrapped in chains. At this point the player is upset that they have this mysterious chain ability. I gave my NPCs fiat-powers to screw him for not following the plot.
Gets more upset when they tie him to a pillar to spend the night without rest. Gets more upset when he can't push them around.
Next day tries it again this time his dad starts kicking his &^8$&%5.
They were sent there because of his connection to the cult leader...
Now they are told to leave.
The rest of the party has a bit more information that this cult does have magical capability but they could not confirm it was what they were looking for. They also learned that there employer does not pay the full amount if they mess up the job. So the guy tried to attack his employer, on the mans ship, with his crew.

Even I, after repeatedly reading this account, don't know how the player was supposed to expect anything bad from taking the jewels. I get the other stuff, though. Did the chain actually have stats, or did you just say "they move their hands and you're chained up".

I have several other times such as when they decided in a airship to ram a Blue Dragon

This one is stupid, but also awesome.

[Geordnet]

This one is stupid, but also awesome.

There you have another fine line, because the distance Rule of Cool takes you varies depending on the game and the GM. This is one of those cases where the explanation is needed first.

"That might hurt the dragon, but it might not. Either way your ship will undoubtedly get the worse end of the bargain. Do you proceed?"

[Lord Torath]

Even I, after repeatedly reading this account, don't know how the player was supposed to expect anything bad from taking the jewels. I get the other stuff, though. Did the chain actually have stats, or did you just say "they move their hands and you're chained up".

Well, would you try to desecrate the altar of <insert your favorite diety's name here> with his High Priest and 19 of his most faithful standing in a circle around you? At the very least, I'd wait until I was alone.

[Vknight]

Huh oh darn. Forgot this stuff
Well the cult was all around him when he was climbing up the pillar to rip the jewels off the thing they worship... Well they could see him in the middle of the day

The chain thing was one of the cultists. The one with the chain devil ability is named Raxier, the old guy who had demonstrated this ability and had been traveling with them since he found them 2 days into there travels
Part of the reason he got upset was because the NPC was following them he can't use his ability on me.
He did get a roll for the chains but failed.


As for the Blue Dragon one
-You notice in the distance a blue dragon. As the airship approaches you seen the bulk of the beast. The guide shouts to to stay away from Scalabreg a fight with that beast is something he wishes not. You all notice the dragon has a jolly roger painted on its thigh.
*Players immediately say we aim to ram at the Dragon*
-You can make a knowledge check on that. They make the check and get this, Scalabreg is on of the pirate lords, and that is his mount dragon.
*The party in a Airship barely able to hold ten people and supplies continues the charge*
They continues there charge against a guys personal mount who is a pirate lord. Even without that they tried the same tactic on another Dragon and had almost crashed the ship from the added weight of a large sized dragon.
Also they had tried to fight one of those pirate lords and was how they ended up on the island from the earlier tale

[Maugan Ra]

Basic adventurer survival tip - Never desecrate a corpse. Never desecrate an altar. Never deal with a dragon. And never cross a wizard.

Of course, the first rule of being an adventurer is that all following rules may be disregarded if the money is good enough

[Slipperychicken]

Well, would you try to desecrate the altar of <insert your favorite diety's name here> with his High Priest and 19 of his most faithful standing in a circle around you? At the very least, I'd wait until I was alone.

It's just a corpse, they might not mind. Personally, I'd ask general questions about the body (why is he there? who is that? why does he have jewels? etc), then maybe ask if they were going to keep the jewels.

[Vknight]

It's just a corpse, they might not mind. Personally, I'd ask general questions about the body (why is he there? who is that? why does he have jewels? etc), then maybe ask if they were going to keep the jewels.

'He Whose Name Is Lost'
That was the corpses name. The guy they were following, his teachings, it was his body.
Think on it

[Threadnaught]

Nearly every time mine make a decision, I ask them this and they still think it's code for "I'm gonna use this against you." Sometimes they think/realize it's code for "That is the stupidest damn idea I've ever heard in my entire life, and I've heard all your other brain-killers." Those rare few times they don't think I'm manipulating them to their dooms, or trying to save them from a humiliatingly painful death at the hands of their own stupid, they take time out and seriously consider their options.

Teaching is fun.

[SimonMoon6]

Me: Do you attack the ancient wizard
Player: Yes
Me: Are you sure?
Player: Yes
Me: You know he has a reputation a good one with your employer
Player: I got a *whatever*
Me: Ok well your attack misses. He casts
Player after his character would be damaged severely, or dead: I was joking...

He did that so many times the one time he attacked a farmer and was so proud for killing him. The town wouldn't help them after he did that and the next session he wanted a redo

"Load saved game"

[Wookieetank]

"Load saved game"

I actually had a DM who had a crazed wandering merchant NPC who was able to save our game. I don't think we were ever given a load option, but everytime we ran across him we saved our game for amusement purposes. We actually played more carefully in that campaign than others with that group, for fear of having to go through the same areas/adventures a second time if we ever had to reload.

[Geordnet]

"Load saved game"

Iron Man.

[Vknight]

"Load saved game"

Basically any bad decision they made they thought they could skip around, not deal with or out right ignore

[Agincourt]

The crucial thing to realize about the famous gazebo incident is that it was bad DMing. Once it was clear that the player didn't know what a gazebo was, the DM should have described it, so the player actually knew what his character saw.

Google is failing me. What is the gazebo incident?

[Slipperychicken]

Google is failing me. What is the gazebo incident?

Type in "Eric and the Gazebo".

[ellindsey]

Modern-day superhero game I was running many years ago.

The players had managed to learn about a major arms smuggling operation that one of the local criminal groups was conducting that evening. They had actually managed through some good detective work to track down when and where a large batch of explosives and ammunition was being unloaded, and had surrounded and were entering the warehouse where it was taking place without being spotted. One of the characters, an Iron Man-ish armor-suit wearing hero, had just entered the main room of the warehouse.

I described to him the scene - boxes of obvious guns, ammunition, explosives, grenades, etc - being unloaded by a half dozen normal-looking men. I told the player she had managed full surprise and could act first.

She told me that she would use her area-effect electrical blast on the room, to stun all the men without killing them. I asked her if she was sure. She was.

The resulting chain-reaction of explosions amazingly didn't kill any of the PCs, but they didn't end up with any prisoners to interrogate. And the local authorities were not pleased with the resulting body count.

[Jay R]

Google is failing me. What is the gazebo incident?

Read about it from the original author here.

[Cerlis]

one problem one needs to avoid is whenever the game goes from "dont do something stupid, and think things through" to... "Guess what the DM has plotted for you".

2 of the Gms i've delt with more than one time (we have a long history of One-shot, never-come-to-again campaigns) seemed to have the attitude of looking down on rash or not completely thought out decisions that any normal person WOULD do.

There have been times when i'm at a loss because its obvious that we need to stay and confront the situation, but nothing seems to be working and I cant read the DM's mind.

Othertimes I HAVE to do something stupid because its what my character would do. Like tell the other werewolves to stand back while i approach the "Big wolf" by myself because i dont know they are werewolves too and think i'm the only one that can "take it" if something bad happens.

....

come to think of it I do that alot. I really probably should stop making my characters with attributes I admire lol

[Lorsa]

So the MitD is a gazebo? It all makes sense now!