Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page

[DaveMcW]

I've dropped the assumption that Wormhole is a level 9 power. It just felt so obvious to me that I jumped the gun on it. Now the highest confirmed power of Laurin's is Disintegrate.

Wormhole might not be a level 9 power, but I am pretty sure augmenting it to transport an entire army cost at least 17 power points. I haven't seen anyone argue otherwise.

You can spend only a total number of points on a power equal to your manifester level.

[RMS Oceanic]

Wormhole might not be a level 9 power, but I am pretty sure augmenting it to transport an entire army cost at least 17 power points. I haven't seen anyone argue otherwise.

You can spend only a total number of points on a power equal to your manifester level.

Well since it's functionally similar to Gate, we can take a look at its duration, namely "Concentration, up to 1 round/level". This is guesswork, but it would make sense that Wormhole would have a similar duration, so the main question is how many rounds did it take for the army to march through. If Wormhole was augmented, then it would most likely have been for its width. But Gate also includes variable dimensions in its description. It all depends on what is included in the manifestation of Wormhole.

[DaveMcW]

Incidentally, I agree with you that it is 9th level like Gate.

But for those who do not, I am arguing that the big Wormhole is still evidence that Laurin is 17+.

[Silverionmox]

Ditto, plus I'm not sure why we can't just list him as "dead".

"Missing in action" would qualify too, since it's not totally implausible that he became trapped on the wrong side of the gate when Soon ordered Dorukan to seal it.

[ChristianSt]

Dorukan s listed with (Deceased, SoD) - which is certainly true because he died in SoD.

But wouldn't it be better to provide an online-strip source that he is dead? Since there is at least one which states that he is dead, that would be easy to change: In 196 the dialogue in the first panel states that Xykon has killed Dorukan. (If we have one for Lirian imo the same applies, but I don't know if it was stated online)

[SavageWombat]

"Missing in action" would qualify too, since it's not totally implausible that he became trapped on the wrong side of the gate when Soon ordered Dorukan to seal it.

Missing: Presumed Dead would be the more accurate phrasing. But the whole "do we know for sure" question seems unpopular with some posters.

[Kornaki]

What's crazy is that we've been told explicitly in comic that Kraagor died and people don't want to put it up, but the evidence we have for Girard's death is they found somebody's skeleton and Haley said 'yeah probably Girard'.

To list one as deceased and the other as missing in action on the basis that for plot reasons if Girard was live we probably would have seen him by now is to defy the whole purpose of this thread - either both are dead or both are missing: presumed dead.

[ChristianSt]

What's crazy is that we've been told explicitly in comic that Kraagor died and people don't want to put it up, but the evidence we have for Girard's death is they found somebody's skeleton and Haley said 'yeah probably Girard'.

While I agree with both being dead (at least for the purpose of this thread), a large part of evidence for Girard's death is also Familicide. It is a really overpowered spell and Girard needs a good reason to life through it.

[SavageWombat]

What, no discussion of 928 yet?

1) Add Horrid Wilting and Contingency to Miron, almost-but-not-quite cementing him as a wizard

2) Discussion on Laurin's power? I favor Ultrablast at first, but someone suggested that should have killed Belkar outright.

[Porthos]

Laurin has an unspecified healing power.

Whatever the power is that Laurin used in the last panel, also needs to target Tarquin, which rules a lot of them out.

[AstralFire]

Laurin has an unspecified healing power.

Whatever the power is that Laurin used in the last panel, also needs to target Tarquin, which rules a lot of them out.

I no longer have Complete Psionic, but there was a very augmentable healing power that could be picked up via expanded knowledge there.

Though, does it NEED to also target Tarquin? He was not visibly damaged.

[Ramien]

I no longer have Complete Psionic, but there was a very augmentable healing power that could be picked up via expanded knowledge there.

Though, does it NEED to also target Tarquin? He was not visibly damaged.

He's got the glowy bits around his head that makes it look like something's happening.

[AstralFire]

He's got the glowy bits around his head that makes it look like something's happening.

Not in the panel where she's casting a healing power, though.

[Porthos]

I no longer have Complete Psionic, but there was a very augmentable healing power that could be picked up via expanded knowledge there.

Though, does it NEED to also target Tarquin? He was not visibly damaged.

I was talking about two separate powers there.

I've seen references to chaining powers. Chaining to Tarquin to reach others, confident that Tarquin will easily make whatever save makes sense. Especially if he has Spell/Power resistance. Doubly so if they've pulled off this maneuver before.

[Matt620]

Looking at Tarquin's face, I think he was pretty clear that he would be immune to the power Laurin dished out and was okay with it hitting him.

Perhaps it's some sort of nightmare power? I'm sure there are psionics out there that can cause it. If so, Tarquin's Ring of True Seeing could have prevented it from affecting him.

With Miron having Contingency, he's got to be an arcane caster. Probably Sorcerer, since he's a big ditz. Horrid Wilting is possible for water domain clerics, but contingency is all arcane. Although if he could cast that Teleport, why did Laurin need to open a Wormhole? Kilkil, perhaps?

[Shreav]

Looking at Tarquin's face, I think he was pretty clear that he would be immune to the power Laurin dished out and was okay with it hitting him.

Perhaps it's some sort of nightmare power? I'm sure there are psionics out there that can cause it. If so, Tarquin's Ring of True Seeing could have prevented it from affecting him.

Psionic Blast, perhaps? That would plausibly explain why nobody (and in particular, Belkar) isn't injured further by it, but everyone except Tarquin and Durkula has a pained expression on their face. The yellow "rays" could also be a visual presentation of "the air ripples with the force of your mental attack".

[AstralFire]

Most things that'd give Tarquin immunity to any of the candidate powers would work for all candidate powers.

Psionic Blast is the wrong shape, though, it's a cone and this affected people in a burst from what we can see.

[zimmerwald1915]

What, no discussion of 928 yet?

1) Add Horrid Wilting and Contingency to Miron, almost-but-not-quite cementing him as a wizard.

Thanks to contingency, Miron must be an arcane caster. Thanks to horrid wilting, Miron must be level 15 or higher (time to add him to the first post, or should we wait for confirmation of his class?). Which means the spell his contingency activated was almost certainly teleport. Does that in turn mean that Miron knows teleport? Does your contingent spell have to be a spell you know?

Laurin has an unspecified healing power.

I think body adjustment fits rather well, don't you?

[Porthos]

Thanks to horrid wilting, Miron is now level 15 or greater. Which means the spell his contingency activated was almost certainly teleport. Does that in turn mean that Miron know

Contingency
Evocation
Level: Sor/Wiz 6
Components: V, S, M, F
Casting Time: At least 10 minutes; see text
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: One day/level (D) or until discharged
You can place another spell upon your person so that it comes into effect under some condition you dictate when casting contingency. The contingency spell and the companion spell are cast at the same time. The 10-minute casting time is the minimum total for both castings; if the companion spell has a casting time longer than 10 minutes, use that instead.

The spell to be brought into effect by the contingency must be one that affects your person and be of a spell level no higher than one-third your caster level (rounded down, maximum 6th level).

The conditions needed to bring the spell into effect must be clear, although they can be general. In all cases, the contingency immediately brings into effect the companion spell, the latter being “cast” instantaneously when the prescribed circumstances occur. If complicated or convoluted conditions are prescribed, the whole spell combination (contingency and the companion magic) may fail when called on. The companion spell occurs based solely on the stated conditions, regardless of whether you want it to.

You can use only one contingency spell at a time; if a second is cast, the first one (if still active) is dispelled.

Material Component
That of the companion spell, plus quicksilver and an eyelash of an ogre mage, rakshasa, or similar spell-using creature.

Focus
A statuette of you carved from elephant ivory and decorated with gems (worth at least 1,500 gp). You must carry the focus for the contingency to work.

Does casting from a scroll fit that definition?

I think body adjustment fits rather well, don't you?

I'll have to look at that when I'm not about to run out the door. But at first glance, it seems right.

[zimmerwald1915]

Does casting from a scroll fit that definition?

No idea. That's why I asked

[AstralFire]

Contingency can be used in conjunction with UMD, so yes, scrolls work.

Though I must express that I feel it exceedingly unlikely that Mr. Burlew would let someone do that.

[Matt620]

If Miron's spell was teleport, he must be Lvl 15 minimum, since teleport is 5 and Contingency requires the spell to be 1/3 your level or less.

Miron may not have chosen to specialize in a school: He's cast Abjuration (GDM), Evocation (Contingency), Conjuration (Teleporting spell for said contigency, and that mage armor type spell from blocking Haley's arrow) and Necromancy (Horrid Wilting). Since you can't choose divination to lose, that might be a thought

[Matt620]

Does casting from a scroll fit that definition?



I'll have to look at that when I'm not about to run out the door. But at first glance, it seems right.

That only works on yourself, though. Maybe I read the wrong thing, but it looked to me like Laurin was healing all three of them.

[zimmerwald1915]

That only works on yourself, though. Maybe I read the wrong thing, but it looked to me like Laurin was healing all three of them.

Laurin's dweomer only manifested around herself. If she had been healing Miron and Tarquin as well, her dweomer would have manifested around them.

[Chronos]

Quoth zimmerwald1915:

There's no particular reason to believe Belkar succeeded on his Fortitude save.

There's even less reason to believe he failed. All of his levels are in classes that have good Fort progression, he has at least two such classes, he probably has decent Con, and there are a lot of things you can do to boost a save that you know is coming (Rage, Resistance, Guidance, maybe Conviction if the Azure City clerics use Spell Compendium, etc.). Yes, either one is possible (if nothing else, saves auto-succeed or fail on a natural 20 or 1), but we're definitely not certain he failed.

On Miron, all we can say for sure is that he has some sort of teleportation power. It could be Teleport, or it could be something like Dimension Door maximum range straight up (a common Contingency choice).

On Laurin, while I personally agree that transporting the army would require at least a 17 PP expenditure, I don't think that that matches the standards of this thread. Consider that we didn't even use his genocidal sacrifice-farm plans as evidence of his alignment-- If that's not proof, then neither is "Yup, that power looks pretty powerful".

On the big blasty power she's using this strip, is it possible that it's something that affects both enemies and allies, but in a different way? There are a few spells that do that, such as Prayer, but I don't know if there are any powers. And I'm guessing that it's a fear effect, from the look on Belkar's face.

[orrion]

There's even less reason to believe he failed. All of his levels are in classes that have good Fort progression, he has at least two such classes, he probably has decent Con, and there are a lot of things you can do to boost a save that you know is coming (Rage, Resistance, Guidance, maybe Conviction if the Azure City clerics use Spell Compendium, etc.). Yes, either one is possible (if nothing else, saves auto-succeed or fail on a natural 20 or 1), but we're definitely not certain he failed.

Does he still get the Con bonus after being blood drained? 'Cause that's Constitution damage.

[zimmerwald1915]

Does he still get the Con bonus after being blood drained? 'Cause that's Constitution damage.

Does it matter? Chronos was referring to the abortive discussion of whether Belkar kept the level Tsukiko's wight drained off him almost two books ago.

[orrion]

Does it matter? Chronos was referring to the abortive discussion of whether Belkar kept the level Tsukiko's wight drained off him almost two books ago.

Oh, then carry on. The mention of Laurin and Miron in that same post threw me off on the timeline.

[ti'esar]

Psionic Blast, perhaps? That would plausibly explain why nobody (and in particular, Belkar) isn't injured further by it, but everyone except Tarquin and Durkula has a pained expression on their face. The yellow "rays" could also be a visual presentation of "the air ripples with the force of your mental attack".

Durkon doesn't have a pained expression, but he does have a shocked one (the same as Belkar, in fact, except that his mouth isn't open). Given his notable lack of reaction to most things since being vamped, I'd take that as strong evidence he was also affected.

Can we guess anything about what Miron's dodge effect in panel 4 is representing?

[Slayer Lord]

I'm surprised Miron and Jucinda the catgirl aren't up yet for Team Tarquin. Is it because their classes haven't been confirmed yet?