Tactical Question - Haley

[SavageWombat]

If Laurin uses some form of Psionic Flight to escape, does Haley get to use her Favored Enemy (Airborne Tramp) bonuses? Or is Laurin not so much a skank as a MILF?

[Carl]

doesn't have Favoured Enemy (airborne tramp)...

[Haldir]

ah, but her intense hatred of airborn tramps gives her a circumstance bonus. It's just like picking the lock in Azure City, but with hate.

[jere7my]

If Laurin uses some form of Psionic Flight to escape, does Haley get to use her Favored Enemy (Airborne Tramp) bonuses? Or is Laurin not so much a skank as a MILF?

Are all female characters defined by their sexuality for you, or just stick figures?

[Haldir]

I think sexuality defines a whole helluva lot for alot of people, otherwise the internet wouldn't be dominated by pornography. I recommend you enjoy the joke for its face value.

[jere7my]

I think sexuality defines a whole helluva lot for alot of people, otherwise the internet wouldn't be dominated by pornography. I recommend you enjoy the joke for its face value.

Good point. I took a closer look, and the joke has "Face value: one tenth of one cent" written on it in four-point type. So, not much to hang on to there.

Seriously, has Laurin said or done anything to give any impression of her sexuality at all, apart from having had a child at some point in the past? We have a completely non-sexualized female character called a "skank", "tramp", and "MILF", and that's funny...why, exactly? Would it make any sense to call Miron a boytoy or a stud for the sake of a joke?

[Haldir]

The point is that the vast majority of people have strong ties between personality and sex, from Laurin's perspective and from the Op's perspective, as twisted as it might be, the common thread is breeding. Accept that it's a thing, or don't. You won't change it with gender-defensive trolls.

[jere7my]

The point is that the vast majority of people have strong ties between personality and sex, from Laurin's perspective and from the Op's perspective, as twisted as it might be, the common thread is breeding. Accept that it's a thing, or don't. You won't change it with gender-defensive trolls.

I honestly can't parse what you're saying here, but you might want to review the forum rules.

[Ramien]

The point is that the vast majority of people have strong ties between personality and sex, from Laurin's perspective and from the Op's perspective, as twisted as it might be, the common thread is breeding. Accept that it's a thing, or don't. You won't change it with gender-defensive trolls.

Say what? Laurin's perspective, as near as we can tell, involves providing the best life she can for her daughter. Nothing about 'breeding' except the assumption that it must have happened at one point for her to have a daughter. But beyond that, her motivation and view have nothing to do with sex, or even her gender - anyone can want to give their children a better life.

[The Oni]

I tend to agree, Laurin doesn't appear to be especially promiscuous, so Haley wouldn't be getting any bonuses from it anyway even if she could fly. The catfolk gal, maybe - but she's elsweyr.

Suddenly imagining D&D minmaxers tailoring their character's sex lives for mechanical bonuses...

[Tass]

Would it make any sense to call Miron a boytoy or a stud for the sake of a joke?

If it was funny, yes.

Besides, you can't tell me Miron is not a stud. Look at that sexy scarf.

[rodneyAnonymous]

Are all female characters defined by their sexuality for you, or just stick figures?

Haley made the "Favored Enemy (Airborne Tramp)" joke.

[Ramien]

Haley made the "Favored Enemy (Airborne Tramp)" joke.

Yes she did, but putting Laurin in either that category or 'MILF' is just crossing the line a bit for some people.

[137beth]

But has she taken a level of ranger yet?

[Nimin]

Good point. I took a closer look, and the joke has "Face value: one tenth of one cent" written on it in four-point type. So, not much to hang on to there.

Seriously, has Laurin said or done anything to give any impression of her sexuality at all, apart from having had a child at some point in the past? We have a completely non-sexualized female character called a "skank", "tramp", and "MILF", and that's funny...why, exactly? Would it make any sense to call Miron a boytoy or a stud for the sake of a joke?

If it'd be funny, yes. You're overreacting anyway.

[Cavenskull]

...Seriously, has Laurin said or done anything to give any impression of her sexuality at all, apart from having had a child at some point in the past? We have a completely non-sexualized female character called a "skank", "tramp", and "MILF", and that's funny...why, exactly? Would it make any sense to call Miron a boytoy or a stud for the sake of a joke?

Well, Haley did call Roy a slut for the sake of a joke.

[johnbragg]

Let's go through the roster of Airborne Tramps and see if (or how well) Laurin qualifies.

Sabine. Tramp by definition.
Samantha. Used/abused her authority as bandit cheiftain to pressure cute men for sex. So yeah.
Tsukiko. Enamored with the undead, and Xykon in particular. Borderline, actually. Very borderline--one romantic entanglement/aspiration, but her entire life is defined and controlled by a fetish.
Crystal. No known trampish activities.
Druid's Hawk. Not confirmed female, no record of promiscuity.

So "Favored Enemy: Airborne Tramp" is Haley's feminist issue. I think including Laurin is fair for a joke, but not generally fair to Laurin.

Effort in this thread would better be spent further berating the folks in the "Laurin's Favor" thread who desperately want Laurin to ask for Tarquin for sexytime or marriage.

[Chronos]

Crystal. No known trampish activities.

Well, Haley would probably call her a tramp, whether or not it's justified, given the wide variety of derogatory labels the two of them have attached to each other. Less ambiguously, though, Crystal also has no known airborne activities, either.

[Pyron]

Less ambiguously, though, Crystal also has no known airborne activities, either.

True. But, air-headed activities, on the other hand...

[Kish]

I do not believe it speaks well of Haley that, confronted with the conundrum of how to insult a deluded necrophiliac traitor and mass murderer who had a morbid loathing for her own speciescreature type but hypocritically did not choose to become an undead creature, kept her own "precious children" enslaved by magic, and was obsessed, to the point of not accepting the clearly stated word "no," with a man who had no interest in her...

...confronted, as I say, with a barrel overflowing with fish...

...chose for her go-to insult, "The way you dress suggests promiscuity."

[Cerussite]

{{scrubbed}}

[Domino Quartz]

How is this thread still open? Are the mods asleep?

[SavageWombat]

I do not believe it speaks well of Haley that, confronted with the conundrum of how to insult a deluded necrophiliac traitor and mass murderer who had a morbid loathing for her own speciescreature type but hypocritically did not choose to become an undead creature, kept her own "precious children" enslaved by magic, and was obsessed, to the point of not accepting the clearly stated word "no," with a man who had no interest in her...

...confronted, as I say, with a barrel overflowing with fish...

...chose for her go-to insult, "The way you dress suggests promiscuity."

I just wanted to say that I enjoyed this post greatly.

[jere7my]

{{scrubbed}}

[warrl]

Well, "tramp" in this sense is a female who has looser-than-is-considered-proper standards of sexual behavior, and some people consider this a moral issue* - even going so far as to class the behavior as Evil.

So it gets extended to females who are Evil, without regard to their sexual behavior.

And by that strange several-steps-removed-from-origins standard, both Laurin and Tsukiko are tramps.

* I understand why loose sexual behavior was *originally* classed as a moral issue. It was all about damage to the man that the woman belonged to, and simply being thought to be sexually "loose" was damaging to a man - it cast doubts on the validity of heirs the woman might birth for her husband, which would also reduce the benefit a father could gain from marrying his daughter off.

So a woman being - or deliberately dressing as if - sexually loose was, at best, engaging in a reckless disregard for the well-being of the man she belonged to and any sons she might already have or give birth to in the future. Which would be reasonably considered Evil.

But this originates from treating women as property and from punishing children for what their parents did (or for that matter are incorrectly suspected of having done).

Why it is still considered evil now that we recognize that women are not men's property, particularly in the case of unattached women where there's no legal presumption of paternity, totally escapes me. The availability of cheap highly-effective contraception doesn't help clarify.

[FLHerne]

How is this thread still open? Are the mods asleep?

Because the original post made a meaningful reference to a long-running 'running gag' that's close enough to the current situation to at least consider it. And one* person's rather vehement rejection of it (possibly due to missing the reference?) doesn't change that?

Anyway, it seems to have calmed down again now.

I'd agree that if Crystal (who didn't come close to meeting either criterion) counted for it then Laurin probably could - certainly if she became airborne.

*And one more-reasoned objection

[jere7my]

Because the original post made a meaningful reference to a long-running 'running gag' that's close enough to the current situation to at least consider it. And one* person's rather vehement rejection of it (possibly due to missing the reference?) doesn't change that?

I got the reference. Doesn't change the fact that a) Laurin has shown no sign of flying and b) the OP went beyond quoting Haley to throw in additional gender-based, slut-shaming insults. Seriously, am I the only person who thinks "Is she a skank or a MILF?" belongs on some frat-boy Maxim forums, not here?

I see a lot of dudes telling me I overreacted. I don't see a lot of women contributing to this thread.

[Rakoa]

I got the reference. Doesn't change the fact that a) Laurin has shown no sign of flying and b) the OP went beyond quoting Haley to throw in additional gender-based, slut-shaming insults. Seriously, am I the only person who thinks "Is she a skank or a MILF?" belongs on some frat-boy Maxim forums, not here?

I see a lot of dudes telling me I overreacted. I don't see a lot of women contributing to this thread.

You do seem to be overreacting a bit, at least in my eyes. But I do appreciate that you are still being respectful.

[Koo Rehtorb]

Suddenly imagining D&D minmaxers tailoring their character's sex lives for mechanical bonuses...

Worked in Fallout: New Vegas...

[jere7my]

You do seem to be overreacting a bit, at least in my eyes. But I do appreciate that you are still being respectful.

Well, thank you. It may be true that my response was a bit more vigorous than necessary.

But here's my thinking: if you wouldn't joke, "Hey, is she a skank or a MILF?" in a mixed conversational grouping, with women you don't know or don't know well, then why would you do it here? It creates an unwelcoming atmosphere for women, and in my eyes geekdom already has enough problems with that.