OOTS #932 - The Discussion Thread

[rodneyAnonymous]

Okay, got a question: Haley is still stunned. Mechanically, how does that work?

Her stun lasted longer, but no, she is not "still stunned": she is walking in the second panel, and carrying Elan in the sixth panel.

The most likely mechanical explanation is that the power Laurin used had a variable-duration stun, each target is stunned for 1d4 rounds say, and it happened to affect Haley longer. She is not the only person who was affected.

[Oko and Qailee]

Julio referred to his weapon as a "Chaos Saber".

I'm usually pretty up on 3.5e D&D rules and such, but I've never heard of that item. Does anybody know what book it's from, what it does, or is it a homebrew item Rich cooked up for the setting?

Maybe he just meant an anarchic weapon?

[Gift Jeraff]

Now I want to see what Malack would have looked like as a bat.

I imagine a pterosaur without hind legs.

The Laurinear Guild (tm Gift Jeraff)

This will catch on!

[Shining Wrath]

Man, I actually kinda wish this was drawn out more. Watching Tarquin and Julio fight is really fun!



Wait, how do we know what any of Tarquin's surviving wives did afterwards? To what Cleric do you refer?

Julio's dialogue, panel 6, as Elan sings to encourage him.

[Joseph_Lavode]

I love seeing Tarquin get more and more furious. The calm composed evil genius is all but totally gone now.

[IW Judicator]

So THAT'S how Julio earned his levels as a Dashing Swordsman...Farming exp and loot off of Tarkie.

[Oko and Qailee]

And, wow, is Belkar caring about something alive for some reason other than "I can ride him to slaughter soldiers?"

(Yes I know he already cared about Mr. Scruffy)

[Porthos]

Remembering to pick up the animal who helped them and who would probably rather not remain a tiny lizard speaks better of the one who did than failing to do so speaks of any of the ones who didn't.

Two points. I think most people here are reacting to the 'callous disregard' charge. It's just overkill for describing what happened, at least IMO.

Secondly, only one person can remember Bloodfeast first. If, and I stress if, Rich wanted to use someone remembering to save Bloodfeast as character development, perhaps he felt the character development should be Belkar's not V's.

That someone didn't get character development in this instance doesn't say quite as much as the person who did get it.

======

ETA::::

*points below*

I ninja'ed The Giant!!!

End ETA:::

======

....

You know, if after just reading the comic anyone had told me that we would be debating on whether or not V was once again acting in a callous manner, I wouldn't have believed them.

It's just not something I would have guessed happening.

[The Giant]

Caring about the well-being of others should be someone's default state. One shouldn't have be reminded, by Belkar of all people, to do so.

The fact that Belkar worries that Tarquin will take the time to look for a tiny desert lizard in the desert and take it home and punish it does not mean that is actually what would happen. Other, smarter people might reasonably think that Tarquin would have bigger concerns and Bloodfeast would go on to live a normal lizardy life. Or they might think that, as a highly valuable piece of military equipment (limited enough that they use the same one for war and arena duty), Tarquin would simply de-polymorph the dinosaur and return it to its duties. This wasn't a black-or-white, save-the-dinosaur-or-be-willfully-condemning-it-to-die-painfully sort of thing. There are a lot of valid options for what someone could think was going to happen.

But just beyond that…you do understand how stories work, right? That the point of that particular scene was to show that Belkar cared? And that this would be impossible to do if anyone else thought to rescue the lizard before he did? I know that you're going out of your way to attack Vaarsuvius as much as possible, but when you get to the point of blaming him/her for not having Belkar's character growth instead of Belkar, it makes you sound sort of…overzealous.

[HZ514]

I think Porthos just ninja'd the Giant about V not getting Belkar's character growth because only one of them could get it.

Mental snapshot, and....click.

[zimmerwald1915]

Now I want to see what Malack would have looked like as a bat.

Probably something like this:



Though that's assuming his bat form grew legs even though his lizardfolk body didn't have any.

Changes made to Durkon's bat form:
1. removed the beard and fangs
2. elongated the snout and added fangs where Malack's fangs were
3. changed the body color to Malack's body color, the wing color to the color of Malack's outer cloak and hood, and the fingerbone color to the color of Malack's inner robe
4. changed the eyes to Malack's milky pink with no outline

It's a pretty hack job on my part, really

You know, if after just reading the comic anyone had told me that we would be debating on whether or not V was once again acting in a callous manner, I wouldn't have believed them.

It's just not something I would have guessed happening.

*looks at join date*

Really?

[Knight.Anon]

Imagine how freaky and unnatural 's spell of a giant floating hand would look in a stick figure based universe. It would cause peasants to run and children to start crying.

[quasit]

I'm worried that Laurin will lock Julio down but we'll see

Agree. Loks a bit like the order fleeing gives Tarquin and Laurin the chance to shot him down. Hard.
Too bad, Julio was such a dashing rogue...

[Orm-Embar]

Just wanted to say I love this episode.

It's got a bearded bat, rug-based puns (is Tarkie even trying to counter-pun?), V stealing Tarkie's whip and using a spell rather than a free hand to pick up Roy's sword (typical wizard! oh no wait it gets better now I see the Bugsby's [sic] Hand being used to pick Roy up and fly with him), backstory between Tarkie and Julio, the Order using their time-tested strategy of RUN AWAY NOW, and Belkar showing actual concern for another living thing. And Blackwing's fanboy moment in the last panel.

Also I'm happy to see Bloodfeast is, after all, going with the Order.

This is a fun beginning of the end.

Thanks Giant!

[Porthos]

I think Porthos just ninja'd the Giant about V not getting Belkar's character growth because only one of them could get it.

Mental snapshot, and....click.

*mentally savors WIN*

*looks at join date*

Really?

What can I say? This board constantly surprises me.

[Caex]

Phew, I was really concerned for Bloodfeast. It's good to see that Blackwing has grown since his days of trying to eat Vaarsuvius lizard.

[Gift Jeraff]

Imagine how freaky and unnatural 's spell of a giant floating hand would look in a stick figure based universe. It would cause peasants to run and children to start crying.

Sir Thumb is actually an eldritch horror.

On a somewhat related note, I just realized V's hand spells only have 4 fingers (or 3 fingers and a thumb).

[Shining Wrath]

obviously he is a winged black alosaurus with a magical acid breath attack (line of course) that walks on four legs instead of two and the front legs are usable as arms *nod nod*.

In other words, he's a black dragon that survived the Familicide and is waiting for the best moment to strike for DRACONIC VENGEANCE!

[Falbrogna]

And Laurin?

If she returned they might very well be able to kill her too. But the odds of them doing it without any casualties are low. And the Order's goals are to survive to fight Team Evil. Not to kill these two.

That's why I excluded Belkar and Roy, and if their goal is to survive slaying their foes would be much better than running away, expecially if higher level than you and with a lucky chance to bring them down.

Julio referred to his weapon as a "Chaos Saber".

I'm usually pretty up on 3.5e D&D rules and such, but I've never heard of that item. Does anybody know what book it's from, what it does, or is it a homebrew item Rich cooked up for the setting?

Weapons can have lawful, evil, chaotic etc. alignments too, dealing additional damage to the other extreme (in Julio's case, the sabre would deal additional damage to lawful beings).
The... alternative is a bit hard to imagine.

[Shining Wrath]

Keep up the callous disregard for the wellbeing of others, V. You haven't got much time left...

There's an interesting lack of "The Order of the Stick will return on..." I don't think we've reached book5's finale yet.

The V who didn't know what Belkar had named his dinosaur, but whose first act was to return Roy's sword to him?

I see no callous disregard for anyone shown here, except maybe by Roy leaving Julio.

[AstralFire]

I think my favorite thing about this discussion is that it makes me feel totally okay about disliking Vaarsuvius; I might be grumpy, but at least I am not that grumpy.

[RNGgod]

if their goal is to survive killing their foes works much better than running away.

That's your opinion. Regardless of whether it's correct, the Order has to
a) agree with it,
b) believe four of them could kill Tarquin and Laurin, and
c) actually be able to kill Tarquin and Laurin


All of those have to be true for your plan to make sense, and there's no evidence of a) and b), even if we were to come up with an answer for c).

[HZ514]

As an addendum to the discussion about V, I'd like to point out that V's hatred is a great success in terms of characterization. The Giant started with the very simple, one might even label as cliched motivation of "I want all the power" and took it to its maximum potential in Vaarsuvius.

If you hate V, it's because V deserves that hatred. V as a being made a human (elven) mistake based on V's very personal and very deep flaws, and now V needs to find redemption and hopefully absolution. But V as a character achieved what very few can: realizing a lifelong goal without being rendered inert or redundant afterward.

I just hope that the people who dislike V are able to remind themselves that V is a great character and that the people who are defending V remember that the contempt is meaningful.

[Knight.Anon]

I hate to say it but the there has to be a fight on the Millennium ....Mechane. I hope Julio not so chaotic that he isn't flying without insurance.

[LasVegasLawyer]

Wait, is Julio wielding a sabre or a rapier? Doesn't the Dashing Swordsman PrC require a rapier when punning to get the benefit?

[Shining Wrath]

Between Durkon, Haley, Julio and V they could have finished off Tarquin with relative ease.
Oh well.

Unless the psion a few hundred feet away intervened with another "all of your brain cells are belong to me" blast.

[headhoncho]

Apologies, I feel kind of clueless here... but can someone explain the punchline in the last panel to me? Not understanding why it's so funny. Thanks.

[Falbrogna]

That's your opinion. Regardless of whether it's correct, the Order has to
a) agree with it,
b) believe four of them could kill Tarquin and Laurin, and
c) actually be able to kill Tarquin and Laurin


All of those have to be true for your plan to make sense, and there's no evidence of a) and b), even if we were to come up with an answer for c).

As they say, attacking is the best defense.

Unless the psion a few hundred feet away intervened with another "all of your brain cells are belong to me" blast.

While Durkon could simply walk to her and finish draining

[Shining Wrath]

Caring about the well-being of others should be someone's default state. One shouldn't have be reminded, by Belkar of all people, to do so

In case you missed the point:

V CARED ABOUT THE CAT BEFORE BELKAR SPOKE.

That's how V was able to tell Belkar immediately where the cat was.

Hate is one thing, but dumb hate gets under my skin.

[bguy]

I suppose it's conceivable that Laurin might try to wormhole herself and Tarquin aboard the Mechane, but I think it more likely that the Order is finally safe.

Are we sure the Order will be safe on the Mechane even if Laurin doesn't pursue them? Julio is a CN pirate and thief, and he's shown a willingness to attack good aligned people before (his fire bombing Azure City's siege engines.) He's also explicitly not there to help the Order but just to glorify himself, and he probably wouldn't mind breaking his mentor connection to Elan (since it has the potential to get him killed someday.) As such while I don't think he would kill the Order, I wouldn't put it past him to rob them and then leave them stranded somewhere.