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2014-02-18, 03:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index Reloaded --- (Index of the Giant's Comments II)
Of those, I'd include the plot, the evolution, Vector Legion, printing the stories, and possibly Durkon as a thrall and the extra battle/split (because the question of why this book is so big is a reasonable one).
The rest don't really tell us much.
Elan's mother was alive at the start, and she hasn't been included in the story in any way, so status quo means she's alive.
The percent was maybe a ballpark figure, but come on. It had 4 or 5 decimal points and isn't set in stone anyway. Filing it under joke.
If it was a link TO the map, I'd include that, but merely that a map exists? I'd assume it did based on the idea that every fantasy author I've ever heard of who created a world also created a map of that world.
Strong female character? Way too vague.
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2014-02-18, 04:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index Reloaded --- (Index of the Giant's Comments II)
This I agree with. We're clearly meant to assume Elan's mother is alive, and that should be all that's relevant to discussion. And yeah, I don't see much use in saving info on some 'strong female characters are coming up'. It's temporary at best, like "How long will the break be."
This one, I think, is not a joke, however. I mean, he added ludicrous precision as a joke, of course, but ~70% is precisely where we should be right now, based on what he's said in the past (that we were past the halfway point at the end of Book 4) and what he's said about how much longer there is (at least three years. We're at over ten years right now, and if you assume a fifteen-year run, say, we're at the 70% mark now.)
I'd agree if Rich was the kind of author to stat out his characters fully and iron out their abilities beforehand, but he's said that he leaves gaps specifically so he can make jokes or impact the plot as he needs to later on. It would not be outside the line of reasonable thought to assume that he doesn't have the world set in stone to a further degree than the number of continents and vague ideas of the kind of climates and races found on each. If he really does have the whole OotSworld mapped out as extensively as we've seen here, then to be honest I am a bit surprised.
I mean, it makes sense. I just think it makes sense to think otherwise, too.Last edited by The Linker; 2014-02-18 at 04:29 PM.
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2014-02-18, 07:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index Reloaded --- (Index of the Giant's Comments II)
5/7 = 71.42857... %
The Giant's figure is just a little shy of that, so we can safely say we're 5/7ths done with the comic. It's not especially new information, but it is a reaffirmation that we're getting 2 more books of content (however many pages they may have).
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2014-02-18, 08:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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2014-02-18, 08:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index Reloaded --- (Index of the Giant's Comments II)
OK, archiving non-OOTS comments was sketchy enough, but Twitter? This is getting stalkery.
A game is a fictional construct created for the sake of the players, not the other way around. If you have a question "How do I keep X from happening at my table," and you feel that the out-of-game answer "Talk the the other people at your table" won't help, then the in-game answers "Remove mechanics A, B, and/or C, impose mechanics L, M, and/or N" will not help either.
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2014-02-18, 08:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index Reloaded --- (Index of the Giant's Comments II)
I say include only relevant comments in the main section, but include a link to the transcript of all the OOTS-related ones, even the jokes. They're fun enough to read and it's not any less useful than the google search.
I am: Neutral Good: -2 chaos, -21 evil and 15 balance!
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2014-02-18, 08:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index Reloaded --- (Index of the Giant's Comments II)
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2014-02-18, 08:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index Reloaded --- (Index of the Giant's Comments II)
I'm gonna hold off on any transcription until people decide what they want transcribed.
And if someone else wants to do it, fine by me.Concluded: The Stick Awards II: Second Edition
Ongoing: OOTS by Page Count
Coming Soon: OOTS by Final Post Count II: The Post Counts Always Chart Twice
Coming Later: The Stick Awards III: The Search for More Votes
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2014-02-18, 09:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index Reloaded --- (Index of the Giant's Comments II)
Check it out.
I agree. We should include those comments that are relevant (as per Index rules) like any other quotes. The whole transcript is a fun read, but it's secondary to the purposes of the Index. A link will do fine.DM in Mummy's Mask I, II, III | Keshkaru and Ozkrak in Extinction Curse | Marzena in Age of Worms | Elrembriel in Wrath of the Righteous | Gurmok in Nightmare in Katapesh | DM in Catacombs of Ravenloft Avatar courtesy of Neoseph7
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2014-02-18, 09:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index Reloaded --- (Index of the Giant's Comments II)
Its the official twitter account for the Order of the Stick. He doesn't use it for personal updates, mostly just for site / strip updates. So no, it isn't stalkery... the Twitter account was specifically made to communicate information about the strip and about the Kickstarter project.
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2014-02-18, 10:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index Reloaded --- (Index of the Giant's Comments II)
I am: Neutral Good: -2 chaos, -21 evil and 15 balance!
Can't find the strip you're looking for? Head on over to OOTS Strip Summaries!
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2014-02-18, 11:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index Reloaded --- (Index of the Giant's Comments II)
Concluded: The Stick Awards II: Second Edition
Ongoing: OOTS by Page Count
Coming Soon: OOTS by Final Post Count II: The Post Counts Always Chart Twice
Coming Later: The Stick Awards III: The Search for More Votes
__________________________
No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style - Jhereg Proverb
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2014-02-19, 10:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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2014-02-19, 10:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index Reloaded --- (Index of the Giant's Comments II)
Yeah, that quote is only relevant in regard of that other quote. Save that, it's now obvious that Durkula is worshiping Hel.
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2014-02-19, 11:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index Reloaded --- (Index of the Giant's Comments II)
ThePhantasm will have particular interest this announcement about changes to how TABLE codes will work in the near future.
I like the updating solution. But as I've said in the past, I lean toward inclusion unless there's a strong reason to remove.Last edited by Zherog; 2014-02-19 at 11:47 AM.
John Ling
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2014-02-19, 11:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index Reloaded --- (Index of the Giant's Comments II)
guess I can't delete after all... sorry for the double post...
Last edited by Zherog; 2014-02-19 at 11:48 AM.
John Ling
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2014-02-19, 12:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index Reloaded --- (Index of the Giant's Comments II)
Yes, but at this point the "how is durkon casting spells" question is answered by reading the strip until the end of the current book. So I question if there's any need for it in the index at all. We wouldn't put, for instance, a quote about how long Haley is going to have aphasia in the index, because that's answered in comic. Or "will we ever see Elan and Nale's father".
The actual line in the index is "Vampire Durkon Can Cast Spells: A cleric doesn't have to worship a deity to cast spells.". I'd argue this is now false information, as he does indeed worship a deity.
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2014-02-19, 12:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index Reloaded --- (Index of the Giant's Comments II)
Yeah, no one caught up with the comic will ever find that a relevant piece of information. It's interesting in that it's an example of the kind of stuff Rich will say when he's trying to throw people off the scent of his plot twists, but I don't think that falls under the purview of the index.
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2014-02-19, 12:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index Reloaded --- (Index of the Giant's Comments II)
Here are the quotes from the Twitter thing that I think should be included in the Index:
Spoiler- How different is the story now from what you plotted day 1?
RB: I didn't plot ANYTHING on Day 1. But once I did plot it, it's expanded or rearranged since then more than it's changed. - Are there any arcs or storylines that in hindsight you wish you'd done differently in some way?
RB: I wish I hadn't left "Haley retrieves Roy's body" for the books. I wish I had broken this arc into two, so it'd be easier to print.
Where would you have split this arc?
RB: When they left the Empire, before the pyramid. But there are too many threads that go through both to split now. - Any chance of Nale/Malach/Tarquin prequel book a la Start of Darkness?
RB: Yes, there's a chance. Not 100% chance, tho. - Is the story still evolving/expanding, or pretty much set now?
RB: Sort of both. I'm trying to wrap up more than I add, but if there weren't room to add I would get bored before the end.
Is that why this book ended up so long?
RB: Partly. But I cut a whole battle with the LG when I was recuperating because I had too much material.
Might this battle reappear in the Print version?
RB: No, I actually like it better without.
Would this battle originally have been when the OOTS figured out who "Thog" actually was?
RB: Yes, exactly. But with ~4 months to think about it, I decided it wasn't necessary and let Elan pre-empt it in his recap song. - Did Tarquin's adventuring party have official name like Order of the Stick and Linear Guild do?
RB: Vector Legion. TWITTER CANON! - Do you know how the KS stories are being put in print? One book or dispersed?
RB: That will depend on their length and whether or not I have a better place for any given story. So, no idea yet.
I think that means I'm in agreement with orrion, except I'm also supporting the inclusion of the one about a Nale/Malack/Tarquin prequel book.
Shouldn't be difficult to update our tables, given how consistent their structure is; my question in that thread about colsp is probably the only thing keeping us from having it ready to update ahead of time.
I suppose it does mean I should avoid using tables in the interim though, if they're going to break when the update happens.
I don't think it's strictly false, just that it hints at an incorrect conclusion...like the quoted post itself, really.
Still, I'm not in favor of misleading entries in the Index (that's like the opposite of clarity), so I'm in favor of changing the entry; and with an update on the table I don't see why a removal shouldn't be considered. And like you said, the original question no longer applies so I don't think it's particularly useful to keep.FeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
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2014-02-19, 01:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index Reloaded --- (Index of the Giant's Comments II)
Agreed. The quote isn't false, in that everything Rich said was true - and remains true. The issue, such that it is, is that everybody assumed Rich's answer applied to Durkon, when it's clear now that it doesn't.
Still, I'm not in favor of misleading entries in the Index (that's like the opposite of clarity), so I'm in favor of changing the entry; and with an update on the table I don't see why a removal shouldn't be considered. And like you said, the original question no longer applies so I don't think it's particularly useful to keep.
that said, while I'm a "lean toward inclusion" guy, I certainly recognize that some things don't belong, and some things used to belong but become obsolete.John Ling
Frog God Games Lead Pathfinder Developer
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2014-02-19, 01:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index Reloaded --- (Index of the Giant's Comments II)
So...you're of thinking something like making the entry title "Newly Vampirized Clerics can Still Cast Spells", and adding into the summary "See also here, on the Giant's misdirection of Durkon as a new vampire with this quote"?
FeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
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2014-02-19, 01:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index Reloaded --- (Index of the Giant's Comments II)
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2014-02-19, 02:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index Reloaded --- (Index of the Giant's Comments II)
John Ling
Frog God Games Lead Pathfinder Developer
Note: unless explicitly stated otherwise, opinions in my posts are my own and not those of Frog God Games.
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2014-02-19, 02:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index Reloaded --- (Index of the Giant's Comments II)
Correct, I meant in regards to Durkon, not the information itself. I was unclear.
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2014-02-19, 06:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index Reloaded --- (Index of the Giant's Comments II)
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2014-02-19, 07:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index Reloaded --- (Index of the Giant's Comments II)
OK, Rawhide just said we won't have the option for column spanning "out of the gate", which will complicate some things....Adding the table titles as a line of text above the table isn't a problem, but some of the tables have subheadings in the middle (for example the table for the alignment of specific characters has groupings for Evil Characters, Good Characters and Neutral Characters). That's not going to work out so well.
The options I'm seeing are....- Put the subheaders in the single widest cell of a table row, keeping the other cells blank (and hope the off-centered subheaders don't look too bad)
- Split the tables into new tables for each subsection, so each subheader becomes the title of a new table.
- Remove the subheaders and group the entries together.
I'm thinking we split the tables where there's a lot of entries in each subsection ("Characters: Items and Stats" has nearly ten entries each of its two sections), and remove subheaders from the other tables (the specific character alignments table has ten entries total).FeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
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2014-02-19, 07:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index Reloaded --- (Index of the Giant's Comments II)
I don't think it makes any sense to worry about this before the actual changes is here, since it isn't really possible to test how things will work exactly. For example it could be possible to use nested tables to simulate spanning cells.
I personally don't think it will be that much work to update the Index to the new code, though some things (like the missing spanning), could make things a bit harder.
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2014-02-19, 07:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index Reloaded --- (Index of the Giant's Comments II)
How about making the new entry, "If Rich Says That Something Is Either Irrelevant Or Incorrect And Irrelevant, The Focus Should Probably Be On Irrelevant, Not Incorrect"? *ducks*
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2014-02-19, 08:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index Reloaded --- (Index of the Giant's Comments II)
It'd still be good to have an idea on which way to go ahead of time in case it ends up not being workaround-able, I think. Then again I'm not really a fan of the subheaders in the first place, so I might be biased. (And nesting tables sounds painful.)
I think it could benefit from a semicolon somewhere.Last edited by Jasdoif; 2014-02-19 at 08:06 PM.
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The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
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2014-02-19, 10:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index Reloaded --- (Index of the Giant's Comments II)
Where's that quote about how Tarquin is the one who portrays himself as super competent (and we shouldn't necessarily believe him)?