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2019-06-21, 11:10 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2018
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2019-06-21, 11:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
Re: OOTS #1168 - The Discussion Thread
"Besides, you know the saying: Kill one, and you are a murderer. Kill millions, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Fishman
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2019-06-21, 11:12 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
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2019-06-21, 11:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2017
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- France
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Re: OOTS #1168 - The Discussion Thread
That was their plan. Although I had assumed the undominated minority was made up of the Councilmen who were not at the Chamber yet.
EDIT:
Some kind of Rogue specializing in Charisma, maybe?Last edited by Fyraltari; 2019-06-21 at 11:14 AM.
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2019-06-21, 11:13 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2012
- Location
- Waterworld
Re: OOTS #1168 - The Discussion Thread
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2019-06-21, 11:13 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2018
- Location
- NJ (right next to philly)
Re: OOTS #1168 - The Discussion Thread
honestly a reasonable assumption. especially as both the 1st and 3rd words end in the same rune.
also, i guess the dwarves can be so calm about the domination since they don't even know what they're voting on yet! and i bet now that this motion is in order (to investigate later), they can't take it back once they find out they're voting to destroy the world and doom all dwarves to hel. since, bureaucracy and all.
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2019-06-21, 11:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2013
- Location
- California
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Re: OOTS #1168 - The Discussion Thread
I've been in these kinds of meetings, and it is equally frustrating to observe in (quality) comic form or real life -_- lol
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2019-06-21, 11:15 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2018
- Location
- NJ (right next to philly)
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2019-06-21, 11:16 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
- Location
- Lake Wobegon
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Re: OOTS #1168 - The Discussion Thread
Probably. What people are seeing as reminiscent of current politics isn't the log-rolling (an aside, what we're seeing is about as far as possible to be from bureaucracy; it's a personal, gentile council), it's the specific situation of undue influence on the electorate by people who are not in the electorate.
Which, for what it's worth, is entirely unexceptional.
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2019-06-21, 11:17 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2014
Re: OOTS #1168 - The Discussion Thread
You might be thinking of spells like suggestion were the wording is important. For Dominate it clearly says "Obviously self-destructive orders are not carried out." There is absolutely no hint in the spell description that you could get the subject to self destruct by clever wording, removing context or whatever technicalities.
For this spell RAW and RAI is quite clear: this spell cannot be used for anything that would obviously lead to the destruction of the target.
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2019-06-21, 11:24 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
Re: OOTS #1168 - The Discussion Thread
I want the power to harm enemies by quoting rapid-fire legal text at them:
"Ah, you're Lawful, right, Mr...Fire Lord? Ah, knew you were. Well, i'm sorry to inform you, but according to form 1926.10(a), your evil castle is simply not up to code. "no contractor or subcontractor contracting for any part of the contract work shall require any laborer or mechanic employed in the performance of the contract to work in surroundings or under working conditions which are unsanitary, hazardous, or dangerous." The pits of acid and magma, with no covering, loose balconies with no safety railing...We have counted, in total, 1317 violations, that is a total fine of 17,034,078 GP. Speaking of legalliase, let us move on to your numerous violations of the Geneva Convention...".Last edited by woweedd; 2019-06-23 at 11:34 AM.
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2019-06-21, 11:37 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2017
- Location
- France
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Re: OOTS #1168 - The Discussion Thread
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2019-06-21, 11:38 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
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Re: OOTS #1168 - The Discussion Thread
The council needs more ranks in sense motive.
There is a legitimate reason to not wait to vote. Investigations take a long time and then nothing would get done. And nothing getting done is slightly slower than already painfully slow bureaucracy. But hey, that's bureaucracy logic for ya.Last edited by ericgrau; 2019-06-21 at 11:39 AM.
So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
My 3.5e Rules Cheat Sheets: Normal, With Consolidated Skill System
TOGC's 3.5e Spell/etc Cards: rpgnow / drivethru rpg
Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
Printable Cardstock Dungeon Tiles and other terrain stuff (100 MB)
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2019-06-21, 11:38 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2016
Re: OOTS #1168 - The Discussion Thread
"Depressingly and infuriatingly accurate social commentary: the comic."
Hel can have the council then.
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2019-06-21, 11:39 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
- Gender
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2019-06-21, 11:40 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Gender
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2019-06-21, 11:47 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2017
- Location
- France
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1168 - The Discussion Thread
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2019-06-21, 11:49 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- Location
- New England
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1168 - The Discussion Thread
Or, another way to look at it: "Several astonishingly obvious plants with an oppressive, anti-dwarven agenda, the actual scope of which is only apparent to the fully informed, are corrupting and manipulating the bureaucracy for their own nefarious ends. Their only remaining meaningful opposition is a rebel group of non-uniformed irregular combatants, many of whom are ex-military, including a small special-ops group of foreign mercenaries, engaged in what could possibly be framed as civil insurrection."
All that said, once again apparently this book is back to people holding the idiot ball for the plot to work.SpoilerI Am A: Chaotic Neutral Human Sorcerer (5th Level)
Ability Scores:
Strength - 11
Dexterity - 16
Constitution - 11
Intelligence - 15
Wisdom - 12
Charisma - 11
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2019-06-21, 11:50 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2009
Re: OOTS #1168 - The Discussion Thread
You are not.
Could be a knowledge check of some sort is necessary to know what the swirly eyes mean. Maybe Knowledge [Religion], since the cleric-but-not-the-high-priest of Dvalin is frowning, while everyone else thinks it's somewhat reasonable to defer investigation?
This doesn't explain why Orange Haired Council Member is smiling after, as Grey_Wolf_c notes, his motion doesn't proceed due to the lack of a second.
Knowledge [Arcana] seems more likely, now that I've looked. FWIW, pretty much everything I know about D&D rules comes from this forum.
Also, for those talking about it being a problem with bureaucracy, I'm a bureaucrat, and I don't have to deal with motions and votes and whatnot like this. Those are for people making the rules, not for people like me who follow them. I was going to ask what this sort of thing is called, but then...
...I was answered.
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2019-06-21, 11:51 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
Re: OOTS #1168 - The Discussion Thread
I actually want to play this now. A Lawyer/Paladin: sharp suit, sharp wits, sharp sword. Most people, when they make deals with otherworldly powers, ask for beauty or strength: she asked for perfect recall. She was supposed to fulfill a precondition within a few days to keep it: She couldn't, but she did manage to discover attempts by said powers to sabotage her efforts, thus breaching the contract. The court swung in her favor, but the near-miss inspired her to turn to a life of helping people.
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2019-06-21, 11:52 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- Location
- Valencia, Spain
- Gender
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2019-06-21, 11:55 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2015
- Gender
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2019-06-21, 12:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2012
- Location
- Anywhere but real life.
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Re: OOTS #1168 - The Discussion Thread
Ah, bureaucracy. You can't spell it without something very like "crazy."
It doesn't matter what you CAN do--it matters what you WILL do.
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2019-06-21, 12:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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2019-06-21, 12:20 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2010
Re: OOTS #1168 - The Discussion Thread
It doesn't make sense, but it happens all the time in real life, so ...
Totally plausible.
Obvious danger -> admitting to this obvious danger isn't politically opportune at this moment -> obvious danger is denied until it is much too late
I think guy who says he looks forward to the possibility of being proven wrong must have realized everyone else is insane and is afraid of speaking up any more - also a thing that happens. Or, of course, he is only a very tiny bit cleverer than everyone else and didn't realize the full implications of the domination problem he pointed out.
After what I had to witness in real life, I am really careful with accusing authors of giving their characters the idiot ball. There truly is no limit to human stupidity. Doubly so if people form a group. Lots of people who are intelligent on their own become utter idiots while inside a group of idiots, because saying the obvious truth would lose them the approval of everyone else. To the point of convincing themselves the idiotic point of view is actually true because they cannot endure the cognitive dissonance of saying one thing and believing another.
So, yeah. I have no complaints about the storytelling here. I rather like the parody.
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2019-06-21, 12:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2015
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Re: OOTS #1168 - The Discussion Thread
To zimmerwald's point, this is less about actual bureaucracy and more about a bureaucratic mindset; i.e. an undue and unwarranted faith in process.
I'm reminded a little bit of Eve & Larry's Alchemy.Last edited by Ruck; 2019-06-21 at 12:34 PM.
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2019-06-21, 12:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
Re: OOTS #1168 - The Discussion Thread
These people deserve a god who's so Lawful Stupid he'll throw all the souls of all of his followers into an Evil goddess's toy basket for an eternity of suffering because of a long-superceded oath.
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2019-06-21, 12:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
Re: OOTS #1168 - The Discussion Thread
Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2019-06-21 at 12:41 PM.
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2019-06-21, 12:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
Re: OOTS #1168 - The Discussion Thread
Well, Gontor did order the Dominated councilors to vote 'yes' on the first proposal. Hence the curly-haired vampire working to keep this from being the first proposal.
Won't happen, because even if they formed a legally recognized clan, they don't have admittance here. This is the dwarf equivalent of the Mayflower Society: if you are not a direct descendant of the original clans, you don't count. Another reason why the rest of the dwarves sidelined them
No. We've discussed this repeatedly, and I think we're up to eight ways this is a dwarfly thing to do. My personal favorite was the one where it is their dwarfly duty to save the souls of everyone on the planet, even if it makes them miserable. Especially if it makes them miserable.
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2019-06-21, 12:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2018