Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

[georgie_leech]

A96

Exactly what it says in the power; they do what the power says and nothing else baring DM Fiat. They obey the rules of the Conjuration keyword:

• Occupies No Squares: The conjuration occupies no squares. The conjuration does not need to be supported by a solid surface, so it can float in the air.
• Unaffected by the Environment: Terrain and environmental phenomena have no effect on the conjuration. For instance, a conjuration that is an icy hand functions in an inferno without penalty.
• Creator's Defenses: Normally, a conjuration cannot be attacked or physically affected. If a conjuration can be attacked or physically affected, it uses its creator’s defenses. Unless an attack specifically targets conjurations, only the attack’s damage (not including ongoing damage) affects the conjuration. For instance, an attack power that would cause a creature to take 20 cold damage and become immobilized would instead deal only the cold damage to a conjuration.
• Attacking with a Conjuration: Normally, a conjuration cannot attack. If a conjuration can attack, its creator makes the attack, determining line of effect from the conjuration as if the creator were in the conjuration’s space. If line of sight is relevant, determine it from the creator, not the conjuration.
• Movable Conjurations: If the power used to create a conjuration allows it to be moved, it’s a movable conjuration. At the end of the creator’s turn, a movable conjuration ends if the creator doesn’t have line of effect to at least 1 square of the conjuration or if the creator isn’t within range (using the power’s range) of at least 1 square of the conjuration. A conjuration can’t be moved through blocking terrain.
• Death Ends: A conjuration ends immediately if its creator dies.

Bolded the bit about defenses.

In short, don't treat Conjurations like creatures; they're magical constructs that exist only in reference to the Power that conjures them up.

[Dimers]

I think the un-bolded part of that point was more important for this question. Since this power doesn't say its conjurations can be attacked, they can't, so it doesn't matter what defenses they would otherwise have.

Incidentally, Reconnoiterer, that means you don't have to think about enemies' opportunity attacks when you move the guardian archons.*

Also note the bit about needing line of effect and staying within range. If you end your turn more than 5 spaces away from a guardian archon, that one no longer exists. Likewise if you end your turn with a wall between you and the conjuration.

* Technically only creatures can provoke OAs anyway, but I'd guess most DMs will treat attackable conjurations as creatures for this purpose. I don't have data to back that up though.

[masteraleph]

Q97For summons, and conjurations: does a stormsoul genasi with the shocking flame feat get the +2 damage if the summon or conjuration makes a melee attack?

[tiornys]

Q97For summons, and conjurations: does a stormsoul genasi with the shocking flame feat get the +2 damage if the summon or conjuration makes a melee attack?

A97 Yes in both cases (barring explicit language for the specific summon/conjuration preventing it). Relevant quotes: "If a summoning power allows the summoned creature to attack, the summoner makes an attack through the creature, as specified in the power description. If the summoned creature can make a skill check or an ability check, the summoner makes the check. The attack or check uses the summoner's game statistics, unless the descriptions of the power or creature specify otherwise. Attacks and checks made through the creature do not include any temporary bonuses or penalties to the summoner's statistics"

"Normally, a conjuration cannot attack. If a conjuration can attack, its creator makes the attack, determining line of effect from the conjuration as if the creator were in the conjuration's space. If line of sight is relevant, determine it from the creator, not the conjuration."

For a summon, Shocking Flame is part of your game statistics and is not a temporary bonus or penalty, so it applies. For a conjuration, you are making the attack, so Shocking Flame applies.

[hencook]

How do Group Skill Checks work?

Hi, I'm trying to run the Neverwinter Campaign. On Page 161, there's a skill challenge. One of the things they can do is Athletics (group check; easy; moderate after 8 successes); The characters climb down further.

I'm confused on how exactly this is implemented. When someone leads a group check, the DMG says that the other players checks don't count towards the success or failure, so does helping the leader take up your turn in the initiative?

This is how I currently see WotC running this, RAW.

Round 1. On Alice's turn, Alice makes an Athletics Group Skill check. Everyone else spends their turn to aid her. For some reason, the DMG states that the DC to help anyone is a flat 10, and since even my lowest party member has a 1 in Athletics, the chance to succeed in aid is pretty high. Two people succeed and so she gets a +4 to this check. Given Alice has an 11 in Athletics, she has a total 15 to pass an easy check of 13.

Repeat Round 1 until Round 9.

Round 9: Now that we have 8 successes in Athletics, the DC is now 17. As long as Alice doesn't roll a 1, or in some cases a 3 if only 1 person manages to aid her, they succeed.

My point is, this whole skill challenge seems trivial and boring to run, all because one party member has trained in Athletics. She's not even using any special climbing gear. She doesn't even need to use the grappling hook in her inventory. She just can't roll three crit fails before 12 successes. But I can't find anything contrary to this so I wonder if I am doing this wrong.

[tiornys]

A (98) re: Group Skill Checks.

Your DM is not running group checks as intended. Here's the relevant text from Rules Compendium: "The Dungeon Master sometimes asks the adventurers to make a check as a group. Doing this is called making a group check, which is useful when a number of individuals are trying to accomplish something as a group. In such a situation, the characters who are skilled at a particular task help cover those who aren't.

To make a group check, everyone in the group makes a skill check or an ability check specified by the DM. A group check is almost always against an easy DC. If at least half the group succeeds, the whole group succeeds. Otherwise, the group fails."

So, it should not be everyone else aiding the one really skilled person to pass an easy DC. It should be everyone making a check, and needing at least half the group to succeed.

[hencook]

So there's this familiar, Toad, which absolutely looks bonkers good.

Toad’s Healing: Once per encounter, when an ally adjacent to the toad spends a healing surge, that ally regains 1d8 extra hit points.

A familiar that grants an additional 1d8 hp for healing outside of an encounter seems very good. Too good. What do you guys think?

[Dimers]

The bonus doesn't scale at all and will probably be used only 3 times in a typical adventuring day. Given that you're spending a feat to get it, that doesn't seem excessive at all, and probably would never get chosen past the low levels. For comparison, the dragonling familiar adds at least 2 to all your surges and does scale a bit, and has another tactically valuable option aside from that.

[Vhaidara]

And if you are spamming short rests and only spending 1 surge at a time, then any leader with their standard encounter heal will add more than that (and faster, since they get 2 per short rest)

[Yakk]

And if you are spamming short rests and only spending 1 surge at a time, then any leader with their standard encounter heal will add more than that (and faster, since they get 2 per short rest)

The Toad does stack with the leader's ability.

[Theodoxus]

Q99

Rogue level 1 Attack:

One-Two Punch

You stab your blade into the back of a foe and then plunge it into the chest of another.
Standard Action Finesse weapon
Requirement: You must be able to sneak attack both targets.
Target: Two creatures
Attack: Dexterity vs. AC
Hit: 1[W] damage. If you hit both targets, you can deal your Sneak Attack damage to each target instead of just one.

Clarification on the attack:

Does that mean that if only 1 target is hit, you only deal 1[W], no sneak? Also, if both targets are hit, do you deal 1[W] to each, or only to 1, and only sneak damage to the other? (And if so, is it players choice to determine which gets the 1[W] damage?)

[georgie_leech]

A99

If you hit only one creature, you default to the normal rules, which means that you deal damage and apply Sneak Attack as normal (note that it's 1[W], not 1[W]+DEX like most Rogue Powers). If you hit both targets, you deal 1[W] and Sneak Attack damage to both targets.

[Deathtongue]

Q100

I'm a wizard | monk hybrid. I am hybrided with monk strictly for access to certain feats. As I am not interested in either having Dexterity as a secondary stat nor am I interested in melee powers, I would like to swap out as many monk powers as I can for something else, especially the dailies, while still remaining hybrid=legal. The swap-out doesn't have to be for another power. For example, if I swap out the monk daily attack power with some feat that gives me a +2 bonus to attack rolls until the end of the encounter. But I would like an option that does something with the power besides just ignoring it.

Nonetheless, what sub-level 20 options do I have?

P.S. if I could have access to the Stone Fist monastic tradition without hybriding monk or having monk as my primary class that will work even better.

Q101

What sub-level 20 options do I have to recharge magical item dailies without being an Artificer?

[Reconnoiterer]

My DM and I are having a discussion regarding the legality of self targeting when you use a charm effect where you control a creatures attack and make it attack itself. There seem to be many abilities that do this but very few state either way if the creature can or can not target itself. I can’t find a specific yes or no in the RC and was hoping someone here had a specific hard RAW answer. Specific powers are listed at the bottom if you want to read them to compare.

The specific powers that have come up in our game are
Tasha’s forcible conscription (1 below)
Hypnotism (2 below)
Unhinging strike (3 below) (bonus question, can the target attack itself and can it attack itself twice?)

Q 102 when an ability allows you to have a target make a basic attack against a creature of your choice can you make it attack itself?


1.Tasha's Forcible Conscription
By digging deep into an enemy’s mind, you unleash crippling pain that causes it to lash out blindly.
Daily Arcane, Charm, Enchantment, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 10
Target: One enemy
Attack: Intelligence vs. Will
Hit: The target is stunned until the start of your next turn. This effect also ends if the target is attacked.
Aftereffect: The target makes a basic attack against a target of your choice as a free action.
Miss: The target is dazed until the end of your next turn. This effect also ends if the target is attacked.

Published in Heroes of the Fallen Lands, page(s) 212.

2. Hypnotism
Your piercing gaze and whispered word let you seize momentary control of your enemy’s mind.
At-Will Arcane, Charm, Enchantment, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 10
Target: One enemy
Attack: Intelligence vs. Will
Hit: Choose one of the following effects:
* The target uses a free action to make a melee basic attack against a creature of your choice, with a +4 power bonus to the attack roll.
* You slide the target up to 3 squares.

Published in Heroes of the Fallen Lands, page(s) 205.

3. Unhinging Strike
A jolt of psionic power clouds your enemy’s senses so that the foe sees its cohorts as its enemies.
At-Will Augmentable, Charm, Psionic, Psychic, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Charisma vs. Will
Hit: Charisma modifier psychic damage, and the target makes a melee basic attack as a free action against a creature of your choice.
Augment 1
Hit: Charisma modifier psychic damage. Until the end of the target’s next turn, enemies provoke opportunity attacks from the target, and it must make those attacks.
Augment 2
Hit: 1[W] + Charisma modifier psychic damage, and the target makes a melee basic attack as a free action against one or two creatures of your choice.

Published in Player's Handbook 3, page(s) 29.

[masteraleph]

Q100

I'm a wizard | monk hybrid. I am hybrided with monk strictly for access to certain feats. As I am not interested in either having Dexterity as a secondary stat nor am I interested in melee powers, I would like to swap out as many monk powers as I can for something else, especially the dailies, while still remaining hybrid=legal. The swap-out doesn't have to be for another power. For example, if I swap out the monk daily attack power with some feat that gives me a +2 bonus to attack rolls until the end of the encounter. But I would like an option that does something with the power besides just ignoring it.

Nonetheless, what sub-level 20 options do I have?

P.S. if I could have access to the Stone Fist monastic tradition without hybriding monk or having monk as my primary class that will work even better.

There isn't really anything- you have to have one Monk utility (fortunately that's not a problem), one Encounter, and one Daily. Beyond that, it can be all Wizard. I don't believe that Monks have any Encounter or Daily powers that are stat agnostic. That's the penalty you pay for wanting to get some features while ignoring others.

Q101

What sub-level 20 options do I have to recharge magical item dailies without being an Artificer?

The Channel Divinity feat Creation Secret, which gives you an Encounter Channel Divinity (need the feature from elsewhere) that lets you roll a D20 and keep the power on a 10 or higher. Getting the Channel Divinity feature basically requires:

*Pure class PC who normally gets Channel Divinity
*Hybrid PC with one class that can get Channel Divinity from Hybrid Talent
*Paragon Multiclass into a Divine class and take the appropriate feat of Channel of Faith/Invocation/Valor/Vengeance.
*Take the Radiant Fist Monk Paragon Path
*Be a pure or hybrid Bard, multiclass into a divine class, and take the Blessed Psalmist paragon path.

[masteraleph]

My DM and I are having a discussion regarding the legality of self targeting when you use a charm effect where you control a creatures attack and make it attack itself. There seem to be many abilities that do this but very few state either way if the creature can or can not target itself. I can’t find a specific yes or no in the RC and was hoping someone here had a specific hard RAW answer. Specific powers are listed at the bottom if you want to read them to compare.

There is no specific rule because the powers cover it. TFC calls for them to attack "a target of your choice." As long as their basic attack doesn't exclude themselves, e.g. their enemies, they can attack themselves. Hypnotism calls for "a creature." Are they a creature? They can make the attack. US? A Creature is a Creature.

If they have a basic attack restricted to "enemies", then they can't attack themselves- the enemy/ally paradigm doesn't flip with domination.

[Dimers]

A 100, additional

Q100

I'm a wizard | monk hybrid. I am hybrided with monk strictly for access to certain feats. As I am not interested in either having Dexterity as a secondary stat nor am I interested in melee powers, I would like to swap out as many monk powers as I can for something else, especially the dailies, while still remaining hybrid=legal. The swap-out doesn't have to be for another power. For example, if I swap out the monk daily attack power with some feat that gives me a +2 bonus to attack rolls until the end of the encounter. But I would like an option that does something with the power besides just ignoring it.

Nonetheless, what sub-level 20 options do I have?

You're required to retain monk powers as masteraleph described. Starting at 11th level, though, you can use Reserve Maneuver feat (from PHB2) to effectively change your one monk encounter attack into a wizard encounter attack because you don't technically lose it. If you multiclass to either Ossassin or Executioner, you can use Shadow Poisoner (from Dragon 402) to trade in the monk daily attack for a poison, though it's highly unlikely that'll help you in this situation -- they all require either Dexterity or weapon attacks.

[ThePurple]

Nonetheless, what sub-level 20 options do I have?

This question isn't really appropriate for the Simple Q&A thread since it's asking for a bevy of options rather than a simple clarification with a bunch of different conditions. This is more appropriate for a thread of its own. However...

A100

You can get decent mileage by capitalizing on some of the "worse" monk attack powers via treating them as utility powers. Full Discipline powers can just become an additional move action utility power if you never use the standard action, and, for dailies, you can just take Stunning Palm (stance that makes it so you can't be stunned or dazed) or Stone Juggernaut (polymorph that gives you +2 to all defs, ignore diff terrain, and saves against slow/immob/restrain at the start of your turn in addition to the end of turn) which are pretty good as utility powers. In effect, you're trading a daily and encounter attack power for a daily and encounter utility, which isn't too bad of an exchange, honestly.

[MwaO]

There is no specific rule because the powers cover it. TFC calls for them to attack "a target of your choice." As long as their basic attack doesn't exclude themselves, e.g. their enemies, they can attack themselves. Hypnotism calls for "a creature." Are they a creature? They can make the attack. US? A Creature is a Creature.

If they have a basic attack restricted to "enemies", then they can't attack themselves- the enemy/ally paradigm doesn't flip with domination.

To an extent. In general, that can and should easily fall under 4e's bag of rats rule, Legitimate Targets. Where the Wizard 17, Charm of False Glory should be the power looked at for why this is so.

[Deathtongue]

Q103
Is there a guide like the one for classless damage that would tell me would effects/feats/powers/paths/whatever that would let me add status effects to generic powers on a hit?

Specifically, I'm looking for ways to add status effects to wizard powers without resorting to critical hits. Any wizard power would be nice, but I'll settle for Encounter/Daily. Especially Slow, Dazed (big one), Stunned, Immobilized, Restrained, and Petrified. Forced movement is okay, but it's not necessary. Stuff that's practically at-will as well (such as Long Night Scion) is okay as well, so long as it doesn't get in the way of wizard power usage.

[masteraleph]

Q104

Rod of the Dragonborn:

When you use a power with this implement, the damage you deal with the power is of the same damage type as the damage dealt by your dragon breath.

Q1: One type (as in if your breath does fire and cold, you choose one) or more than one? (Put another way: does your breath do "Fire. And Radiant." or "Fire and Radiant.")
Q2: Replaces the original, or adds it? (Does Hand of Radiance do Fire and Radiant, or just Fire)?

[Yakk]

A104
Q1: The damage your breath deals is "fire and radiant". The same type is "fire and radiant".
Q2: Replaces the original. The same way a cold or radiant weapon does.

[Dimers]

Q 105

According to my reference program, Adventurer's Vault says barding is less useful for Soldier mounts than for others. Can anyone tell me specifics?

[masteraleph]

A105

The AC benefit provided by barding is reduced by 1 for Soldier mounts. Mechanically, they did that because Soldiers already have higher defenses than everything else. The lore is a weak "Creatures that fill the soldier role already have additional armor (natural or otherwise) factored into their AC. As such, barding is less effective for them (as shown in the accompanying
table)." (the table has an asterisk that says: *Reduce the armor bonus by 1 for creatures with the soldier role)

[Dimers]

Thankya!

[Deathtongue]

Q106
Are there any effects such as magical ammunition, whetstones, or even weapliments that would allow someone who used a power that target only one enemy target an additional one? Something like the 'splitter' ammunition you see in other D&D games.

[Dimers]

Not really an answer 106

"Chaos shard" familiar is the only thing that springs to mind immediately. There are probably others.

[Deathtongue]

Dimers, that's not quite what I was looking for, but it's still quite close and helpful. Thanks a million.

[dariathalon]

A106 I doubt you'll see that sort of thing often; it would be a very powerful effect in 4e. The closest that springs to my mind is a daily power that has some limits on how it is used on the orium implement. That comes from Vor Rukoth.

[Dimers]

Q106
Are there any effects such as magical ammunition, whetstones, or even weapliments that would allow someone who used a power that target only one enemy target an additional one? Something like the 'splitter' ammunition you see in other D&D games.

Still no luck here. The closest I can find (aside from the chaos shard) that don't rely on a particular build are the Lightning Arc feat and the impaling, ricochet and thunderbolt weapon enchantments. Impaling ranged weapons do have a sort of multishot 'feel' to them if you squint kinda hard.

There are lots of features that give you an extra attack when you hit/miss/crit/fell your original target (e.g. seeker class's Inevitable Shot) or under some other condition (e.g. Ocular Adept PP's action point feature), but it's pretty clear you're not looking for those.