Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chandras!

[Spore]

I also came back to arena a few months ago after years of the game, abs the power creep is very felt.
Especially the rarity creep. High rarity is almost always higher powered, often to extreme rates.

And yes, a lot of the color identity has bled over. Haste on monogreen and trample on moored didn't used to be a thing for example. The first ravniva block had a R/G hybrid card with haste and trample, and it was considered mind blowing at the time that either color could use it to grab abilities or just didn't have-now you got them both just standard, and not even in hybrids.

Don't get me started on planeswalkers

I agree wholeheartedly, I just played for a year online now. Especially on rarity creep. I think it is safe to assume that a tier 1 deck needs some more expensive cards, by virtue of simply being sought after (and MTGA assigns its costs on card rarity rather than card price), but I would really be happy about a good pool of cards in the uncommon tier that allows fun and competitive tier 1.5/tier 2 decks.

Witch's Oven/Cauldron Familiar is a hilariously overplayed but good example of such cards. I would like to see more Paradise Druids, more Tyrant's Scorns or Order of Midnights, and less Knights of the Ebon Legion or Murderous Riders (which is a fine card, but does it need to be rare when it is THAT needed?)

I feel the game in Standard should be accessible for everyone without a collection, and should not be stomped THAT hard by whales/collectors like we do now.

Yeah creatures have been getting better throughout the entire history of the game.

Back in my day [incoming old man rant!] our black had sorcery speed removal, and we liked it. Our only creatures had downsides or were decrepit scrawny dudes. We could only hope to win by invoking the grand rituals of demons and avatars of pain!

Your modern day Rakdoses with your instant speed removal stapled onto a creature that is also dangerous AND recurring. Oh wait I talk about two different cards. Back in the day we struggled to cough up the double devotion mana. You youngsters got it good with your shock, and scry and life lands!

[Yes, I am blatantly ignoring fetch lands/dual and triple lands]

[LansXero]

Back in my day [incoming old man rant!] our black had sorcery speed removal, and we liked it. Our only creatures had downsides or were decrepit scrawny dudes. We could only hope to win by invoking the grand rituals of demons and avatars of pain!

You mean the same black that had Dark Ritual, Necropotence, Hymn to Tourach, etc.? Or scrawny dudes like Phyrexian Negator?

[Ninjaman]

I agree wholeheartedly, I just played for a year online now. Especially on rarity creep. I think it is safe to assume that a tier 1 deck needs some more expensive cards, by virtue of simply being sought after (and MTGA assigns its costs on card rarity rather than card price), but I would really be happy about a good pool of cards in the uncommon tier that allows fun and competitive tier 1.5/tier 2 decks.

When in the history of magic weren't competitive decks heavily reliant on rares?

Back in my day [incoming old man rant!]

All the most powerful black cards were printed back then. Demonic and Vampiric tutor, Dark Ritual, Necropotence, Yawgmoth's Will, Yawgmoth's Bargain.

Or scrawny dudes like Phyrexian Negator?

I'm pretty sure that falls under "creatures had downsides".

[enderlord99]

Rhys the Redeemed goes well with (either method for) Marit Lage if and only if you also have a Mirror Gallery.

[Androgeus]

Rhys the Redeemed goes well with (either method for) Marit Lage if and only if you also have a Mirror Gallery.

Copying your 20/20 indestructible flyer seems a bit win more.

[enderlord99]

Copying your 20/20 indestructible flyer seems a bit win more.

That's fair.

[PraetorDragoon]

Copying your 20/20 indestructible flyer seems a bit win more.

Depends on the lack of trample and the number of 1/1 flyers.

[Emmerlaus]

You saw latest episode of Game Knight?

I would have love to see the other Titan as a Commander. Feel like a missed opportunity.

Still, made me realize how powerful Uro could become as a EDH Commander deck. Not spoiling anything but its pretty strong!

Spoiler: Spoilers

Show

I didnt expect that ending! It was awesome how Jimmy stole the win out of nowhere!

Still, made me realize how powerful Uro could become as a EDH Commander deck. Im just glad Josh didn't win though.

At least Galia wasnt chosen, that would have being bad.

Hehe and Ashen Rose lost her winning streak! If she had picked the other Titans, who knows, could have ebing different lol!

[Spore]

I'm only half enthusiastic about Game Knights these days because it's basically just product placement now.

Spoiler

Show

Yeah, that was kind of some odd Yugioh moment right there. It was set up so well, and Magic being this intricate I sincerely hope it was not scripted.

But as a general rules question: I thought not only do cards vanish from play when one player is eliminated, but also copy abilities stop working. But apparently Josh could continue to use Xenegos and dig his own grave.

I'm just glad, that in half of the episodes he digs his own grave by focussing so much on card draw.

[enderlord99]

Yesterday, I came up with my stupidest combo-jankery yet, and, after dozens of games (which were near-constant through the night and morning) I have finally pulled it off.

I had a few various anthems out, most of which were set to buff Illusions, in order to allow me to put out a Spark Double without using its ability. Then, I equipped it with a Helm of the Host, such that I basically got to choose anew every turn what the Helm might as well have been equipped to (and give it a free +1/+1 counter) and on top of all that, I also had a Tezzeret emblem, thus allowing me to repeatedly fetch a new creature (or other permanent) which may or may not be duplicated the next turn. On top of all that, I soon put out a Rule of Law.

My opponent roped out and coneded before I could get to the part where I brought out my Doom Foretold, but that's fine.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Hello, My friends got me into mtg over the holiday break last year and I was hooked; I was lurking on this topic for a bit before the forums went down. We all play Commander, and I was wondering if I could get some eyes on the new deck I’m brewing. Bant Enchantress helmed by Estrid.

The idea is to churn out enchantments, using creatures to boost the effectiveness or increase the value of auras and enchantments; there are two infinite combos, Siona and Shielded by Faith and Estrid and Chain Veil. Eschewing mana rocks and dorks in favor of land auras makes Estrid quite effective at getting out mana, in addition to improving enchanted creatures. Any suggestions? I’m trying to keep to a low budget; I already have a few cards I’m using, and Chain Veil is definitely the biggest card I want to splurge on. Stuff like Smothering Tithe is good, but I don’t think it’s really necessary right now. With that in mind, are there any adjustments I should make?

[Ninjaman]

Hello, My friends got me into mtg over the holiday break last year and I was hooked; I was lurking on this topic for a bit before the forums went down. We all play Commander, and I was wondering if I could get some eyes on the new deck I’m brewing. Bant Enchantress helmed by Estrid.

The idea is to churn out enchantments, using creatures to boost the effectiveness or increase the value of auras and enchantments; there are two infinite combos, Siona and Shielded by Faith and Estrid and Chain Veil. Eschewing mana rocks and dorks in favor of land auras makes Estrid quite effective at getting out mana, in addition to improving enchanted creatures. Any suggestions? I’m trying to keep to a low budget; I already have a few cards I’m using, and Chain Veil is definitely the biggest card I want to splurge on. Stuff like Smothering Tithe is good, but I don’t think it’s really necessary right now. With that in mind, are there any adjustments I should make?

For the infinite combo with Chain Veil to work you need to first enchant it with Estrid, right? The fact that people can see it in play makes it much more likely they would find an answer. I don't think I would run Chain Veil.
I would cut some of the pricier wild growth effects, 4 mana is definitely too much. I'd add in Wolfwillow Haven. I'd be tempted to play a darksteel citadel just because it's good to enchant.
I understand that it can be difficult with a budget 3 color mana base, but if you have enough forest you can run Utopia Sprawl and Arbor Elf.

The following I think are weird includes:
Bruna, you're not playing enough stuff to put on her for her to be good.
Callaphe, doesn't do much.
Danitha, she's only discounting about 20 cards, that's less impact than I would like, an enchantress would be much better in her place.
Daxos, doesn't seem to fit that well in the deck. I guess you're trying to enchant him? I'd probably rather have a hexproof creature for that.
Nylea's Forerunner, I don't think you're playing enough large creatures for it to do much.
Nyx Herald, has too little impact for commander.
Approach the Second Sun, I guess you can draw it again quickly, but it seems like an odd include for this deck.
Dismantling Blow, artifact and enchantment removal is good, but you have better options, I'll mention them later.
Negate, is sometimes a bit narrow. It's a fine card, but I think I'd rather play Arcane Denial for your second counterspell.
Once an Future, is a bit expensive, and Adamant can maybe be hard to trigger. I think you have better options.
Opt, doesn't do much. I'd only play opt in decks that cared about casting instant or sorceries.
Pascifism isn't great in commander, because many creatures you want to deal with have other abilities. I'll mention your alternatives later.

I'd play more enchantress effects. Eidolon of Blossoms is an easy include. Enchantress Presence, Mesa Enchantress and Verduran Enchantress are easy includes too. Argothian Enchantress is about 12 bucks, but if you're ever spending more than ten on a single card that's the first one I would buy. Femeref Enchantress also seems worthwhile. If you're playing Kor Spiritdancer you might also want to play Sram.

For artifact and enchantment removal, Seal of Cleansing and Seal of Primordium both do it while being enchantments themselves. Consulate Crackdown might be worthwhile.
For removal, Darksteel Mutation, Lingify, Song of Dryads, Imprisoned in the Moon and Kenrith's Transformation are all very effective in commander, due to being able to take out a commander, while all being enchantments. Beast Within and Generous Gift are both universal answers at instant speed and the 3/3 doesn't matter that much in commander. There's also a whole lot more Cast Out variants, some of which are better than cast out. Cast Out, Conclave Tribunal, Elspeth Conquers Death, Grasp of Faith

Archon of Sun's Grace definitely needs to be in the deck as a wincon alongside Sigil.
Nylea's Colossus is a good top end card to close out the game.
Protean Thaumaturge is a cheap clone effect in this deck.
Rancor is one of the best auras since you get it back and it's cheap and gives trample.
Angelic Destiny is also a powerful Aura you'll get back.
Sage's Reverie can draw a lot of cards.
Karmic Justice is a generally good commander card, and slots even better into this deck.
Idyllic Tutor is very cheap after the reprint.
Vanishing might be a bit worse when your commander isn't a creature, but it is the best way to protect a creature.
Bear Umbra is a quite strong Umbra.
Open the Vaults is a way to get back after an enchantment sweeper.

If you're looking for a beater to stick aura's on, both Geist of Saint Traft and Thrun the Last Troll can do that well.

I think there is a question of focus that comes up. How much do you want to focus on auras and how much do you want to focus on non auras. You probably don't want Octopus Umbra in a deck that tries to kill the opponent with Sigil of the Empty Throne.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

For the infinite combo with Chain Veil to work you need to first enchant it with Estrid, right? The fact that people can see it in play makes it much more likely they would find an answer. I don't think I would run Chain Veil.
I would cut some of the pricier wild growth effects, 4 mana is definitely too much. I'd add in Wolfwillow Haven. I'd be tempted to play a darksteel citadel just because it's good to enchant.
I understand that it can be difficult with a budget 3 color mana base, but if you have enough forest you can run Utopia Sprawl and Arbor Elf.

The following I think are weird includes:
Bruna, you're not playing enough stuff to put on her for her to be good.
Callaphe, doesn't do much.
Danitha, she's only discounting about 20 cards, that's less impact than I would like, an enchantress would be much better in her place.
Daxos, doesn't seem to fit that well in the deck. I guess you're trying to enchant him? I'd probably rather have a hexproof creature for that.
Nylea's Forerunner, I don't think you're playing enough large creatures for it to do much.
Nyx Herald, has too little impact for commander.
Approach the Second Sun, I guess you can draw it again quickly, but it seems like an odd include for this deck.
Dismantling Blow, artifact and enchantment removal is good, but you have better options, I'll mention them later.
Negate, is sometimes a bit narrow. It's a fine card, but I think I'd rather play Arcane Denial for your second counterspell.
Once an Future, is a bit expensive, and Adamant can maybe be hard to trigger. I think you have better options.
Opt, doesn't do much. I'd only play opt in decks that cared about casting instant or sorceries.
Pascifism isn't great in commander, because many creatures you want to deal with have other abilities. I'll mention your alternatives later.

I'd play more enchantress effects. Eidolon of Blossoms is an easy include. Enchantress Presence, Mesa Enchantress and Verduran Enchantress are easy includes too. Argothian Enchantress is about 12 bucks, but if you're ever spending more than ten on a single card that's the first one I would buy. Femeref Enchantress also seems worthwhile. If you're playing Kor Spiritdancer you might also want to play Sram.

For artifact and enchantment removal, Seal of Cleansing and Seal of Primordium both do it while being enchantments themselves. Consulate Crackdown might be worthwhile.
For removal, Darksteel Mutation, Lingify, Song of Dryads, Imprisoned in the Moon and Kenrith's Transformation are all very effective in commander, due to being able to take out a commander, while all being enchantments. Beast Within and Generous Gift are both universal answers at instant speed and the 3/3 doesn't matter that much in commander. There's also a whole lot more Cast Out variants, some of which are better than cast out. Cast Out, Conclave Tribunal, Elspeth Conquers Death, Grasp of Faith

Archon of Sun's Grace definitely needs to be in the deck as a wincon alongside Sigil.
Nylea's Colossus is a good top end card to close out the game.
Protean Thaumaturge is a cheap clone effect in this deck.
Rancor is one of the best auras since you get it back and it's cheap and gives trample.
Angelic Destiny is also a powerful Aura you'll get back.
Sage's Reverie can draw a lot of cards.
Karmic Justice is a generally good commander card, and slots even better into this deck.
Idyllic Tutor is very cheap after the reprint.
Vanishing might be a bit worse when your commander isn't a creature, but it is the best way to protect a creature.
Bear Umbra is a quite strong Umbra.
Open the Vaults is a way to get back after an enchantment sweeper.

If you're looking for a beater to stick aura's on, both Geist of Saint Traft and Thrun the Last Troll can do that well.

I think there is a question of focus that comes up. How much do you want to focus on auras and how much do you want to focus on non auras. You probably don't want Octopus Umbra in a deck that tries to kill the opponent with Sigil of the Empty Throne.

This is definitely an aura-first deck. The thing with the Chain Veil is if I can get it out, I can in all likelihood immediately start using it; if there are some land enchants and Estrid is out, I can immediately put a mask on Chain Veil, then start the loop. You have a good point about the land enchants though, and I will change those up. Utopia Sprawl is a little pricey, but Weirding Wood also helps me with card draw.

On the weird includes, most of those are the cards I already own. Danitha makes auras cheaper plus has a lot of keywords otherwise missing from the deck, so stacking enchantments on her isn't a bad deal. Once and Future I've had good luck with in the past, and with the land enchants I don't think I would have too much trouble paying for the adamant. Opt and Pacifism I can probably leave out for other stuff, yeah. Second Sun is a hard win condition, something nor present elsewhere on the list.

Bruna, Daxos, and Nyx Herald are ones I don't own; I included Bruna because I thought her effect would be good way to either recur auras or move them around to a beater; I see you're right with the other two, though. I am taking your advice with Seal of Cleansing, as well as with Archon of Sun's Grace and Protean Thaumaturge.

[Ninjaman]

The thing with the Chain Veil is if I can get it out, I can in all likelihood immediately start using it; if there are some land enchants and Estrid is out, I can immediately put a mask on Chain Veil, then start the loop.

You're absolutely right, I forgot that you can of course activate the Chain Veil before using Estrid to untap it. That makes it a lot better.

On the weird includes, most of those are the cards I already own.

I'm not saying they're terrible card that you should never play, I'm just saying that these are my suggestions for cards to cut if you get some of the cards I suggested.

Danitha makes auras cheaper plus has a lot of keywords otherwise missing from the deck, so stacking enchantments on her isn't a bad deal.

Her keywords are pretty nice, the problem is you want to stack a bunch of enchantment for her to be good, and she has no way of protecting herself. Estrid does protect her with the mask which mitigates the downside a lot, but getting exiled can still really hurt. It's definitely not a bad card in the deck, it's just that there are other cards I would rather play.

Once and Future I've had good luck with in the past, and with the land enchants I don't think I would have too much trouble paying for the adamant.

It's probably a fine card, I just think there are better options.

Second Sun is a hard win condition, something nor present elsewhere on the list.

But without a way to tutor for it that doesn't really mater. The times when you really need it you're not guaranteed to get it, and a lot of the time you get it and it doesn't really do anything.
If you want an alternative wincon, which I'm not sure you do, I'd rather just run Helix Pinnacle.

I included Bruna because I thought her effect would be good way to either recur auras or move them around to a beater;

The thing is Bruna is good with stuff like Eldrazi conscription. The way you're using her she's just doesn't do all that much. Though I didn't remember she also took enchantments from your graveyard, so that does make her better.

[Techwarrior]

I have a Tuvasa the Sunlit lost I can share that I had to put down in my playgroup. Turns out, if your playing an enchantress deck while your friends are playing U/B and R/B, your primary gamelan of overwhelming enchantment based card advantage is really good. The fact that Tuvasa accidentally just ENDS people is also really nice.

Seriously though, Double Strike and 10 power from Auras or just number of enchantments is really easy to get in Bant Enchantress.

[Ninjaman]

Card designs go in MTG Share your Card Designs II

[Emmerlaus]

Card designs go in MTG Share your Card Designs II

Thanks for the heads-up!

[enderlord99]

Since the Eternals couldn't harvest sparks in a non-lethal manner... does that make the Immortal Sun a plot-hole?

[mythmonster2]

How so? The Immortal Sun doesn't do anything to people's sparks, it just yanks you back if you try to planeswalk.

[LaZodiac]

Since the Eternals couldn't harvest sparks in a non-lethal manner... does that make the Immortal Sun a plot-hole?

Azor made the Immortal Sun using his own spark back when being a Planeswalker meant you were effectively a god. No relation to the Eternals and their Elder Spell at all.

[enderlord99]

How so? The Immortal Sun doesn't do anything to people's sparks, it just yanks you back if you try to planeswalk.

It was made with a spark, and the spark's owner (Azor) didn't die.

Azor made the Immortal Sun using his own spark back when being a Planeswalker meant you were effectively a god. No relation to the Eternals and their Elder Spell at all.

So... oldwalkers could survive losing their spark but nuwalkers can't? Or does it have something to do with it being voluntary?

[LaZodiac]

It was made with a spark, and the spark's owner (Azor) didn't die.



So... oldwalkers could survive losing their spark but nuwalkers can't? Or does it have something to do with it being voluntary?

The short answer to this question is yes.

The long form is that even with oldwalkers could remove their sparks themselves without dying, and could survive having their sparks ripped out due to just the sheer amount of power they have (this is why Bolas survived getting his spark harvested, he was strong enough to endure it and only lose every scrap of magic he had). It's kind of complicated and a lot of oldwalkers have a variety of nasty things happen to their sparks and it's a case by case basis thing.

[mythmonster2]

It could also be that the Elderspell, specifically, requires killing the spark holder to harvest it. I doubt Bolas would care to specifically find a method of spark harvesting that didn't kill the user.

[LaZodiac]

I think Maro made a comment about the Elderspell not having to kill and Bolas just not giving a **** about the people he's using it on, though keep in mind Maro is not the lore guy and War of the Spark's... everything, is definitely a case of many hands and few mouths.

[Tvtyrant]

Got a 3-0 in vintage cube using the worst possibly deck (IMO.) 4 color 2 for 1 aggro, essentially Jund but splashing blue for Ancestral Recall and Baleful Strix. I finished the draft portion assuming I was going to go 0-3, beat storm off the back of Scavenging Ooze, beat burn off of Kitchen Finks, beat ramp off of Wrenn and Six with wasteland.

[DeTess]

So, the new mtg set is pretty interesting. I'm not even necessarily talking about the cards (though there's lots of cool stuff there), but also the setting as a whole, with its focus on untamed wilderness and constantly changing creatures. This is one I'd love to see a sourcebook for DnD 5e for.

[Emmerlaus]

So, the new mtg set is pretty interesting. I'm not even necessarily talking about the cards (though there's lots of cool stuff there), but also the setting as a whole, with its focus on untamed wilderness and constantly changing creatures. This is one I'd love to see a sourcebook for DnD 5e for.

Indeed!

Im only interested in the Riku replacement as Commander goes but even then, I have so many MTG cards already and with this virus thing going on, it's hard to spend it on cards lol

FOrtunatly, Im part of the essential services so Im still working... but my GF is not.

Otherwise, I heard of mono-white cards that are awesome and Im interested in those mostly. I heard there will be one who allows to put several Plains on the battlefield so yeah, eager to see which one is it. Anything to makes Monowhite better then using Stax.

The Ability counter thing... Im eager to see more but mostly because I have a monowhite deck interested in fliers and lifelinkers. The Mothera card is awesome for it and planning to buy it.

As as far as Mutate goes... its very niche I think and not something I wanna spend on.

Cycling niche though is good.

My friend who love Kaiju is more interested in the set then me.

[Tvtyrant]

Mutate looks really good on a hexproof frame. Essentially a better version of enchantment creatures, I like it a lot.

I'm sad they banned the Otter, they don't look good enough to be useful outside their companion ability so its essentially a dead card. OTOH I can probably get a set cheap this way.

[DeTess]

I'm sad they banned the Otter, they don't look good enough to be useful outside their companion ability so its essentially a dead card. OTOH I can probably get a set cheap this way.

The otter is a dualcaster mage, which is decent enough imho, but would have been broken if every RU commander deck could have one ready to cast from the start of the game without taking up a slot in the deck or hand, and without some other deckbuilding restriction. I think it's that last one that killed it for commander. If it had some kind of meaningful restriction on deckbuilding it wouldn't have been as bad, but as it was it's basically free power for any commander deck running red and blue.

[Amechra]

Mutate looks really good on a hexproof frame. Essentially a better version of enchantment creatures, I like it a lot.

Mutate is a way to give auras to Nikya of the Old Ways. It also gives you stuff pseudo-haste. I can see cards like Gemrazer becoming general staples.