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2020-09-30, 11:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread
In the North it's custom for the all and the disabled to "go for a walk" during the winter so that the rest of the family has enough food to see it through. During a prior war (the danse of the dragons), about two thousands of these formed an army with the express purpose of getting killed in battle. This particular war happened in winter (though it did spare the North wahre winter is worst), so apparently they can stomach it. Or well could if it weren't for the army of the dead coming to get them, lead by walking snwo storms.
That's about how it works yes, springs and autumns aparently always last around a year each while summers and winters are more random being in the 3-10 year range (the books start at the end of a ten-year long summer, the longest in living memory). There's a folk belief that a long summer means a long(er) winter but it's apparently not that easy to predict. During the first books there's a few talk of getting "one last" summer harvest in and then one or two autumn harvests if possible (though at this point people carrying torches are distressignly common). Also Winterfell (and presumably other northern castles) has "glass gardens" that can keep churning some food during winter (well they could until Bolton's Bastard set the things on fire at least). Also the regions of Dorne, the Vale and the Reach have been left out of the generalized destruction so far (it's mostly the Riverlands really) but it's not likely to last.
You don't find the Starks likeable? Or Daenerys, Tyrion, Davos, Brienne, Jaime even?
I mean probably, yeah, but it's still funny to me, like last week I have been told that quite a few species of plants can't reproduce properly if summer temperatures happen too early so maybe their stuff is just super strong?
EDIT: Also the Night's Watch has obscene amount of food stored inside the Wall, but they already started rationning because Lord steward Bowen Marsh thinks it'll barely last them the winter. And while he's an ass and not the sharpest knife in the shed, he's supposed to be very good at the whole "steward" business.Last edited by Fyraltari; 2020-09-30 at 11:47 AM.
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2020-09-30, 12:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
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2020-09-30, 12:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread
Last edited by gerryq; 2020-09-30 at 12:48 PM.
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2020-09-30, 01:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread
Finally figured out why people call them quatloos...
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2020-09-30, 01:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-09-30, 01:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread
There is a difference. They only criticized Tokien's writing. You, on the other hand, criticized those who disliked Tolkien's writing, or at least criticized those who prefer more modern entertainment. When you say something like...
Sad times... people will watch 23 completely inconsequential and formulaic superhero movies and consider it well-spent time, or 50 hours worh of faux-vikings series on TV, yet feels bored at beautiful and well elaborated descriptions taking a few lines that *do* have meaning, since establishing details to the world is important, especially from the point of view of the Hobbits.Telling someone they have some kind of mental problem because they disagree with you is not a good argument.
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2020-09-30, 01:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-09-30, 01:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread
Basically this, yes. I don't think anyone here was speaking ill of Tolkien himself. There was just the common agreement that the guy's writing style can quickly feel excessive and a chore to read through.
Meanwhile from the other side it sounds like preferring a more straightforward type of entertainment speaks negatively about our overall cultural development and personality.
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2020-09-30, 02:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread
Classic Trek: "The Gamesters Of Triskelion". Quatloos were the units of currency that the disembodied brains -- the "Providers" -- who ran the gladiatorial games used.
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2020-09-30, 02:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread
The analogy of course, being that quatloos had no value whatsoever other than as a medium for wagering. The Providers aren't part of a broader economy, whatever physical needs they have are met (and don't require further investment). Whether they win or lose a million quatloos, they're no better or worse off than before. Just like we're no better or worse off for our guesses about what's about to happen to Durkon and Minrah.
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2020-09-30, 02:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread
He was going for the shock factor early on. I guess he succeeded a bit too well for your tastes. That's an intriguing thought, and I've no good answer.
Tolkien was an author of fiction part time. His full time job was as Professor. Tom Clancy started as, IIRC, an insurance agent. Hunt for Red October changed all that. However, since JRRT's field of studies was both stories and language and their interaction (philology) perhaps the 'part time' bit is a bit of a stretch on my part. They head for Dorne like a plague of locusts? (Might explain why Dorne is a bit arid).
Yep.Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2020-09-30 at 02:23 PM.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2020-09-30, 02:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread
However, of course, while quatloos had no value beyond measuring how much one or another of the Providers had lost face relative to the others, those brains in jars didn't have much else to live for, and by that measure, quatloos were priceless.
Meanwhile I am beyond amused that the nannyware here apparently objects to naming Melville's book about the whale, and I expect it has a similar objection to my telling the room that "spotted ****" is a traditional English dessert, being a spongy suet pudding liberally studded with dried fruit and served hot with custard sauce.
edit: yep, totally called itLast edited by Malacandra; 2020-09-30 at 02:24 PM.
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2020-09-30, 02:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread
Tom Clancy started as, IIRC, an insurance agent. Hunt for Red October changed all that.
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2020-09-30, 03:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread
I thought he was dead.
HfRO was a best seller, I think he did OK with money, but you are correct in that he became "an author" when the other books came out and hit the best seller lists right away. (Red Storm Rising wasn't that good, as a book).
(FWIW, my warfare specialty was ASW and HfRO was quite good as a techno thriller given when it was published)Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2020-09-30 at 03:12 PM.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2020-09-30, 03:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2013
Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread
Thank NIP for that. Apparently the editors, being former naval professionals, were quite brutal in keeping Clancy in line and not letting him get away with the stuff that riddled his later books. Something he was still pissy enough about to be sniping at them in...Red Rabbit, I think it was.
And yes, he's dead. The contract is still valid, at least until the advances are paid back.
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2020-09-30, 03:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2020-09-30, 03:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread
I think he just let them keep taking his (small) residuals for Hunt to offset the advance, and his kids don't care because they'd rather focus on the video game and movie money.
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2020-09-30, 04:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2020-09-30, 06:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread
I can't comment on Game of Thrones because I don't read or watch it, but agree on LotR.
I didn't care much about the lack of worldbuilding, though. What really bothered me was that we never learned much about any of the rings, really.
Story is called "Lord of the Rings", right? How many of them do we see in action?
Or the dwarves, for that matter. Is there any other dwarve in the story other than Gimli?
And don't even get me started on femalesBoytoy of the -Fan-Club
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2020-09-30, 06:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread
Four. The Master-Ring and the Three: Galadriel's, Elrond's and Gandalf's.
We do learn quite a bit, though. The Nazgûl were all given one, who were eventually returned to Sauron, the seven dwarf kings all got one too, four of which were destroyed (at least one by dragon-fire) and the other three returned to Sauron (who he promises to King Daïn in exchange for intel on Bilbo (and if you believe that, I've got a bridge to Tol Eressëa to sell to you).
Or the dwarves, for that matter. Is there any other dwarve in the story other than Gimli?
And don't even get me started on femalesForum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2020-09-30, 06:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread
More females than a lot of other groups, and that's quite telling of his interests in his world, I suppose.
And indeed, I too always found it kind of frustrating that books called The Lord of the Rings says so little about the rings, be it the One Ring, or all of the others.
And how can so many people (or goblins) live off of caves? Where does the food come from?Attention LotR fans
Spoiler: LotRThe scouring of the Shire never happened. That's right. After reading books I, II, and III, I stopped reading when the One Ring was thrown into Mount Doom. The story ends there. Nothing worthwhile happened afterwards. Middle-Earth was saved.
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2020-09-30, 06:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread
Spoiler: Start of DarknessHe knows at least that the snarl destroyed the first world the gods made and that it was able to kill gods. He may not think that the gods are directly involved in the Plan but he at least knows that the snarl has deity-level power.
Also looking back at SoD, I realize that even back then Redcloak explicitly said he's willing to risk the world getting destroyed if it means the Dark One would get a say in the making of the next one.
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2020-09-30, 07:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread
My theory is that all Dwarves in Tolkien's world have facial hair, etc., and their language is gender-neutral so their translations into Common are a bit wonky. As Pratchett suggested, the matter of finding out what sex another Dwarf is is a matter of considerable delicacy.
All this to suggest that Gimli was actually female, and that it was quite a shock for Legolas when he finally got her clothes off.
Mushrooms, of course... But Tolkien does explicitly (if briefly) mention the vast slave-worked fields under Sauron's control, in the south of Mordor, and the system of roads that let goods and slaves be moved through that region and tributary lands to the east. He was aware of that logistical problem and felt that it should be called out.
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2020-09-30, 09:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread
SO in my head cannon, SoF&I has "major season" and "minor seasons". The years long seasons they talk about being the major seasons, sort of like a quicker version of natural climate change. Minor seasons are like earth, but maybe a bit less extreme.
This explains a few things:
How they know what a year is.
How the north can have summer snows, but still have crops.
How the area north of the wall isn't a glacier.
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2020-09-30, 09:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-09-30, 09:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread
The Lord (Sauron) was the BBEG to end all BBEG's. The rings were but one of his contributions to what made the world and the story what it was. It could have as easily been called "The Lord of the Nazgul" and worked, but nobody knew what a Nazgul was before reading that story. Everyone knows what a Ring is.
Mushrooms and such. Worms. blind fish from underwater lakes, like what Gollum liked to eat.
Laughed, I did.Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2020-09-30, 11:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread
Except that Sauron was actually just Morgoth's lieutenant. Second-banana stuff. Kind of like how Shelob, the spider in the lair in the mountains in Mordor, was just a relatively minor child of Ungoliant, the real spider monster. You know, back in the bad old days.
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2020-10-01, 12:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread
How very $CurrentYear. But "Of the Dwarves" explains that "they had few women", which by implication tells you that they were as gendered as the rest of the Children of Eru. Of those, some weren't interested in marrying because they had craft-work to concentrate on, while others had hoped for a mate that they were unable to get and refused to marry any other. This led to the dwarves breeding well below replacement rate, especially after their losses in various wars and to dragon attacks, and led to their eventual extinction (the sub-race known asNoegyth Nibin or "Petty-Dwarves" had already died out in the First Age).
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2020-10-01, 12:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread
Stop using good evidence and logic that makes sense to refute points, that's my job
Lots of people seem to use blue for sarcasm, I decided I should too
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2020-10-01, 02:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread
The Starks are universally stupid, with the exception of Arya (and Jon, who's just naive, but then he's not a Stark). Daenerys is a horrible tyrant and this was very obvious from the early stages. Brienne is bland, James is interesting (but NOT likeable). Tyrion is fun and Davos is, at least in the books published so far, the only intelligent good character over 18 years old.
My friends insisted I read the books, claiming it was "Tolkien for adults", and so I did, but they are pretty awful (and, at best, Tolkien for horny teenagers). It's a tale full of sound and fury, signifying nothing (but Martin is definitely NOT an idiot)
Well, LotR is a sequel to a book with THIRTEEN dwarves, driving the whole plot forward. Tolkien probably felt that was enough Dwarvish representation, and was ok with toning down in LotR.
Sauron was Morgoth's servant, yes. But he was FAR more successful than Morgoth in actually ruling over (and corrupting) the children of Ilúvatar. Morgoth, being the most powerful created being of all, He who arises in Might spent most of his power corrupting Arda, and was barely able to defeat a ragtag alliance of Elves and Men. Sauron defeated the Valar (who had to "cheat" by calling on Eru). He truly is the BBEG of a BBEG but you have to look at all Tolkien's writings to realize that (specially the Akkalabeth, but others as well)Last edited by diplomancer; 2020-10-01 at 03:10 AM.