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2021-04-21, 06:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2020
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- Jerusalem
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Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
LA +2 seems fair to me, and is my vote. It was what I originally thought, but I wanted to see if people could point out unique weaknesses I hadn't noticed, which would bring it down to +1. I'd say +3 is a little too harsh during early levels, though I get why people are saying that.
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2021-04-21, 06:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Terra Australis
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Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
Torn-City - Massively multiplayer online browser based crime RPG
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2021-04-22, 04:13 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2016
- Location
- New York
- Gender
Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
+1 from me. maybe if there was some more detailed breakdown i could be swayed but as is, it seems good but designed to beatstick, and shouldnt lose that last iterative.
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2021-04-22, 05:33 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2014
Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
+2. A very nice base for a non caster. Abilities that give beatsticks staying power, a nice rider that helps your SoL aura out, and nausea is very hard to work around or get an immunity. It is also relevant at all levels and while mostly useless vs. big dumb beatsticks it wrecks most casters. And the con damage may make even the big dumb beatsticks fail sometimes.
Needs some adjudication as to frequency etc. but even the standard save is immune for 24 hours, and nausea as long as they are within range it is still really good.
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2021-04-22, 07:21 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2015
- Location
- Paris
- Gender
Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
For the first 9 ECL 3 encounters, wouldn't the Necropolitan character gain more exp than the rest of the party? Since he's level 2 at this point. If I'm correct then that means the lost level is regained a tad earlier than what your calculation suggests.
However - congrats for having undertaken the complete process. It's much more tedious than people imagine when they ask "at which level will that LA buyoff allow me to catch up with the others?"
About the Plague Blight: impressive monster. I was surprised to only see 6 HDs too. Its defensive abilities are incredibly potent, it even has a great racial skill list, bonus abilities everywhere, a very powerful aura, and a disease that forces a save every round...I'll go for LA +3 here.VC XV, The horsemen are drawing nearer: The Alien and the Omen (part 1 and part 2).
VC XVI, Burn baby burn:Nero
VC XVIII, This is Heresy! Torquemada
VC XX, Elder Evil: Henry Bowyer
And a repository of deliciously absurd sentences produced by maddened optimisers in my extended signature
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2021-04-22, 08:04 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2016
- Location
- Seoul
- Gender
Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
Does the DC keep up? Veil of Allure(probably not exactly RAI, but 100% RAW and pretty cheap too)+Ability Focus should keep it relevant for a while I suppose... though I feel real dirty using a VoA for something like this.
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
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2021-04-22, 08:21 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2014
Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
Last edited by AvatarVecna; 2021-04-22 at 08:35 AM.
Currently Recruiting WW/Mafia: Logic's Deathloop Mafia and Cazero's Graduates Of Hope's Peak - Danganronpa Mafia
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My Homebrew
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2021-04-23, 08:04 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2015
- Location
- Paris
- Gender
Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
Ah, so that's that. Thanks.
VC XV, The horsemen are drawing nearer: The Alien and the Omen (part 1 and part 2).
VC XVI, Burn baby burn:Nero
VC XVIII, This is Heresy! Torquemada
VC XX, Elder Evil: Henry Bowyer
And a repository of deliciously absurd sentences produced by maddened optimisers in my extended signature
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2021-04-23, 09:28 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2018
- Location
- Colorado
- Gender
Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
I am still sitting on the fence milling over what the rating for this Blighter should be. I think Gangrenous Touch is the first and only disease that is a legitimate concern from a combat point of view; however, disease immunity though less common than poison immunity is still pretty common all constructs and undead are immune by default as are third level and above paladins, fifth level and above monks, anyone with 13 con who takes disease immunity, and its pretty common for any party to keep a couple scrolls of delay disease on hand, with remove disease being a third level spell. While it is disappointing Gangrenous Touch doesn't effect all the blighter's natural attacks which rules out going full natural attack blender it being a rider on slam means you can still use it with a two handed weapon since slam isn't specifically attached to the arms.
Gangrenous Stench while interesting also has some issues as has been stated before the text isn't explicit on activation deactivation action cost and there is a large difference between it being an immediate, free, swift, move, standard, or full round action and I can see an argument for any and all of these. Beyond that 10' radius does really force the Blighter to be up in people's business to be effective.
Resistant to Blows does reduce a lot of the hurt from being an undead in melee especially since the Blighter doesn't get d12 for class level but only for its RHD. But it also makes energy damage the go to way in attacking you so yes optimizing dex is pretty important for you since you are most likely going to be hurting in HP department. Comically the best counter to a Blighter is an archer with an energy bow, if said archer can catch the blighter flat footed they can potentially kill the blighter in a single round. So I guess it is a good thing such archers are pretty uncommon on the NPC side of the table.
I have been thinking about what would be good builds for Blighters. For both Gangrenous stench and touch cha optimization is quite important, Dex optimization is going to be better than Str though with +10 Dex and +8 Str the Blighter is capable of both. Given the fact that like many undead Blighter is stuck with what ever HD it gets from its class going with classes with D10 and D12 is much smarter even if you have RtB. Whirling Frenzy Lion Spirit Totem Barb 1 (2 if you want to pickup trip) into Crusader seems like a pretty easy path though warblade doesn't seem bad either. In this case I don't think Paladin is worth your time unless you want to lean into From Smite to Song and go into War Chanter which gives a pretty big hit to HP but quite interesting. If you want to glass cannon it and completely focus on AC and ignore your HP I think its possible to go straight into Warrior Skald given the right feats (Martial Study [Dimond Mind maneuver] and say apprentice to pickup perform) then lean hard into Snowflake Wardance, extra bardic music and two weapon fighting. If you are feeling like having a headache you could even try to dervish to optimize the use of your Gangrenous abilities.
Either way even with RtB I still worry about HP, I think at +3 LA your hitting the point of no return where you are in danger of being killed in a single round due to low HP. I think +2 LA seems reasonable it locks you out of your final iterative and 9th level maneuvers without LA buyoff which I think is a fair trade for the package you are getting.
On a side note, do spells like shatter that can affect objects and therefore undead make undead make a will or a fort save? If it is forcing a fort save then I am pretty sure an at ECL Caster has a good chance of one shotting a blighter with shatter...
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2021-04-23, 09:51 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2016
- Location
- Seoul
- Gender
Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
Nitpick: this has nothing to do with Blighters. Blighters suck and these apparently don't.
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
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2021-04-23, 09:56 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2018
- Location
- Colorado
- Gender
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2021-04-23, 10:01 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
- Location
- Germany
- Gender
Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
Monks are only immune to natural diseases. Gangrenous Touch is a supernatural disease. Also, do you remember where Disease Immunity is from? I can't find it anymore, but I vaguely remember that you had to choose a specific disease to be immune against.
On a side note, do spells like shatter that can affect objects and therefore undead make undead make a will or a fort save? If it is forcing a fort save then I am pretty sure an at ECL Caster has a good chance of one shotting a blighter with shatter...
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2021-04-23, 10:24 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2014
Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
Would beast strike from dragon magazine allow your touch to apply to all unarmed attacks? That is a potent blender and makes undead meldshaper an option. Unarmed swordsage into totemist 2 into xyz would be fine. Maybe crusader and Mot9?
As a walking debuff bot you have a few solid options that synergizes even without being highest tier. A binder for triple debuff aura after binder 6/KotSS.
You also have stats to do pretty much anything. You suck as a pure caster because of RHD but anything else works. Hell you could gimp yourself and be a full caster into abjurant champion, spelldancer, dread witch, eldritch knight with a debuff focus or whathaveyou and still work. Nausea plus glitterdust, grease, or whatever else you want with nauseas penalties is going to be relevant pretty much forever.
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2021-04-23, 10:54 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2008
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- Minnesota
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Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
They would be required to make a Will save if they were hit with the area effect (or if they are crystalline and targeted specifically) and then the spell would do nothing regardless.
Originally Posted by UndeadOriginally Posted by ShatterOriginally Posted by Shatter Text
Though, in this case, that's not great because it does nothing, as per the text, since shatter only destroys objects, and undead are still creatures, despite being vulnerable to spells that target objects. In addition, all undead are immune to the damage portion, even if they are crystalline.Last edited by Temotei; 2021-04-23 at 10:57 AM.
Homebrew
Please feel free to PM me any thoughts on my homebrew (or comment in the thread if it's not too old).
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2021-04-23, 11:28 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2018
- Location
- Colorado
- Gender
Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
Sorry I don't play meldshapers much so I am a bit unclear but I thought undead were horrible at meldshaping because they have no con. What benefit is totemist giving over just swordsage. Also swordsage with d6 hd means you are hard tanking HP which can still be an issue for Blighty even with RtB taken into consideration. With that said Beast Strike is a decent choice if you can figure out a good build to go with it, I still don't think monk or unarmed swordsage are great choices for Blighty, but I can see a glass cannon argument for them.
Sure glitterdust, grease and other debuff spells are great in conjunction with nausea but you are at best some goofy low op gish unless you are using tier 0 full casting PRCs. That seems more like an argument that you do well with a debuffer in the party more than you should go down the caster path.
Heroes of Horror, and I think this is perhaps the only disease really worth taking that feat for, especially for any on going enemies in the game.
Oh dang yeah after actually reading through Shatter it isn't going to work, what other spells are their that target objects that could be potent on undead?
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2021-04-23, 11:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2016
- Location
- Seoul
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Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
I think the reason Totemist is mentioned is because even undead can get the crapzillion natural attacks it's well known for with a feat and a good Wisdom. The problem is that they still can't take Incarnum feats, and meldshapers aren't exactly high-tier even with them.
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
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2021-04-23, 12:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2021
- Location
- France
- Gender
Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
Last edited by Beni-Kujaku; 2021-04-23 at 12:45 PM.
Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
Nice find! Have a cookie!
Do you want to build monstrous characters with reasonable LA? Join the Monster Mash! Currently, round XII: One-Punch Monster!!! Come judge single-strike entries!
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2021-04-23, 12:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2016
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- Seoul
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Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
Glass Strike also works I think.
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
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2021-04-23, 12:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2021
- Location
- France
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Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
Last edited by Beni-Kujaku; 2021-04-23 at 12:54 PM.
Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
Nice find! Have a cookie!
Do you want to build monstrous characters with reasonable LA? Join the Monster Mash! Currently, round XII: One-Punch Monster!!! Come judge single-strike entries!
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2021-04-23, 01:06 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2018
- Location
- Colorado
- Gender
Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
Hum flesh to stone is always one of those spells that I thought should have had some wording added for 'fleshy' corporeal undead. But that is neither hear nor there.
Disintegrate and sound lance seem pretty nasty for blighty, particularly one who goes for small hd classes like swordsage.
So is the idea to add totemist claw damage to the beast fist as well? otherwise it doesn't seem that helpful.
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2021-04-23, 02:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2014
- Location
- California
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Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Handbooks: The Warlockopedia | The Warmagepedia (WIP) | Tier List (2019 Update)
Spreadsheets: Spellcasting classes | Deities | Useful items
Homebrew: Gestalt Theurge | Fighter and Monk fixes | Warlock stuff | Houserules and quick fixes
Original Fiction: The Wizard's Familiar
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2021-04-23, 02:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2018
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- Colorado
- Gender
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2021-04-23, 10:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2016
- Location
- Seoul
- Gender
Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
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2021-04-23, 10:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2014
- Location
- California
- Gender
Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
Frankly, more NPCs should probably be taking Pauldrons of Health. Glowy floaty shoulderpads may not be fashionable, but disease immunity is very useful in everyday life. Especially if you want to be a chef, or a doctor, or a sanitation engineer...
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Handbooks: The Warlockopedia | The Warmagepedia (WIP) | Tier List (2019 Update)
Spreadsheets: Spellcasting classes | Deities | Useful items
Homebrew: Gestalt Theurge | Fighter and Monk fixes | Warlock stuff | Houserules and quick fixes
Original Fiction: The Wizard's Familiar
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2021-04-24, 01:01 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2017
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2021-04-24, 02:32 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Terra Australis
- Gender
Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
I kind of want to make a Plague Blight NPC/SBEG for my game now. Winder what class levels to apply?
My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
Torn-City - Massively multiplayer online browser based crime RPG
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2021-04-24, 11:29 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2021
- Location
- France
- Gender
Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
I think it would be extremely cool to have it as a paladin of slaughter, using a (heavily nerfed) nightmare or an undead horse as its mount. It would get to use both physical and mental stats in combat, and could lay on hands on itself to heal.
Alternatively, a cleric with the retribution, slimes, suffering, or pestilence domains could be pretty interesting.Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
Nice find! Have a cookie!
Do you want to build monstrous characters with reasonable LA? Join the Monster Mash! Currently, round XII: One-Punch Monster!!! Come judge single-strike entries!
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2021-04-24, 12:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2016
- Location
- Seoul
- Gender
Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
Oh right monsters can cheese the CR. That could be useful. Depends on the power level and CR of the party though.
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
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2021-04-24, 10:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2018
- Location
- Colorado
- Gender
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2021-04-24, 10:54 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2016
- Location
- Seoul
- Gender
Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
I don't think a DM who makes some of your most used abilities worthless is a great one either unless they're really disruptive. This... isn't that bad.
Also for real; if not just a few spells or items but their builds are specifically designed to counter you I think you're qualified to call BS.Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.