OOTS #1240 - The Discussion Thread

[Fyraltari]

Well looks like bl/winking isn't a free action.

This is such a creative, clever tactic that nevertheless doesn't eliminate the threat that I think any game master worth their salt would allow it.

[b_jonas]

This is why we buy our servants from Grubwiggler. It avoids stupid complications in them, such as thinking for themselves or a robust imagination.

[Dragonus45]

This is really a "magic is shut down so mundane skills can take the spotlight for once" scene, isn't it?

Yea, Beholders are pretty much here just for that sometimes. Same as golems.

[Worldsong]

I'm also happy that, well, this encounter wasn't a meatgrinder like the Legion fight or the big events in DStP.

Oh, definitely. Situations where the good guys are outclassed may be good for building up tension but it's more interesting when both sides have cards they can play and it's not just the good guys scrambling to survive.

[Schroeswald]

Elan for the win! Or at least the mile success!

[InvisibleBison]

Perform actually. He isn't lying, he's trying to paint a mental image using oratory skills.

Bluff isn't only about lying. It can also be used to make someone react as you wish for a short time, which is exactly what's happening here. Perform, on the other hand, doesn't have any ability to influence people's behavior.

[MReav]

Man, if Roy wasn't incapacitated, he might just be able to throw Belkar upwards out of the AM field (yeah, he doesn't have the Giant Strength, but between Roy's baseline 18 (or possibly more) strength and Belkar raging to boost his strength, and Belkar's own self-admitted 30 lbs lightness, they might be able to pull it off.

[hagnat]

may i suggest one small change to this awesome comic ?

make ALL of the beholder's eyes blink, even the small ones :)
--
i was going to say "may i suggest EIGHT small changes", but you only show one small eye on the blinking panel ;)

[Frozenstep]

Man, if Roy wasn't incapacitated, he might just be able to throw Belkar upwards out of the AM field (yeah, he doesn't have the Giant Strength, but between Roy's baseline 18 (or possibly more) strength and Belkar raging to boost his strength, and Belkar's own self-admitted 30 lbs lightness, they might be able to pull it off.

That's probably why Roy was targeted first, to be honest.

[Shining Wrath]

A bard using the power of words, and words alone, to solve a problem. That's well played, well role-played, and good story telling.

And Serini seems worried - as well she should be.

EDIT: She should be worried because action economy is a thing that matters a lot in D&D. There's going to be a whole lot of people doing creative things, even if they can't cast spells.

[danielxcutter]

This is such a creative, clever tactic that nevertheless doesn't eliminate the threat that I think any game master worth their salt would allow it.

It does feel like the "DM" of the "game" has been growing as well, doesn't it? Back in the Legion fight, the Order got a literal army and three quasi-PCs dropped on them when they were half-dead and drained. In DStP, it really felt like the DM was getting his rocks off crushing the Order until he got bored with that/the enemies rolled badly.

As to how it feels the "DM's changed"? See below.

Oh, definitely. Situations where the good guys are outclassed may be good for building up tension but it's more interesting when both sides have cards they can play and it's not just the good guys scrambling to survive.

Oh, that's why I think the fights from UD and onward feel less killer DM-ish than the Legion fight or half the plot of DStP - because the Order can actually fight back. Really, the loss of the Dining Hall Battle feels more like the Order blew their rolls rather than the cards being maliciously stacked against them, and Hilgya's a much better done DMPC than Celia was since she wasn't an active excuse for the "DM" to mess with Haley and Belkar.

It feels like if this was a game, the DM kinda sucked ass for a few books and slowly got better.

[Quizatzhaderac]

This is such a creative, clever tactic that nevertheless doesn't eliminate the threat that I think any game master worth their salt would allow it.

To make up an explanation, I'd say the anti magic field requires a steady, continuous stare.

If it just effected everything the monster could see, an eye can easily track targets, and or reflexively switch several times a second.

Bluff isn't only about lying. It can also be used to make someone react as you wish for a short time, which is exactly what's happening here. Perform, on the other hand, doesn't have any ability to influence people's behavior.

I'm going to second the perform verdict. Bluff makes the target believe something, and at no point did sunny believe there was real sand.

As for perform, if being good at "oratory" or "acting" doesn't involve being able to induce a strong mental image, I legitimately wouldn't know what the SRD means by those words.

[InvisibleBison]

I'm going to second the perform verdict. Bluff makes the target believe something, and at no point did sunny believe there was real sand.

As for perform, if being good at "oratory" or "acting" doesn't involve being able to induce a strong mental image, I legitimately wouldn't know what the SRD means by those words.

A successful Bluff check indicates that the target reacts as you wish, at least for a short time.

[Cazero]

Perform, on the other hand, doesn't have any ability to influence people's behavior.

That kind of bull**** is the exact reason why RPGs are played with a game master.

[gatemansgc]

elan, that was AWESOME.

also during that brief period of eye closing some air should have gotten into belkar's bag of holding so bloodfeast could breathe!

[danielxcutter]

elan, that was AWESOME.

also during that brief period of eye closing some air should have gotten into belkar's bag of holding so bloodfeast could breathe!

Technically the air's cut off from the outside whether or not the magic's intact.

[JoseB]

OK.

Who are you, and what have you done to Elan?

[CountDVB]

Elan using that big Charisma score awesomely is quite a site to behold. And I suspect Sunny will become good friends with Elan

[Pax_Chi]

I like the little detail of all of Sunny's eye-stalks turning to look at Serini when he tries to explain himself.

And nice move by Elan, showcasing his own creativity and how in synch he and Haley are. Without any verbal cues, she realizes immediately what Elan's up to and prepares accordingly.

Serini might have not done herself any favors by taking Roy out of the fight. True, he's got the highest damage dealing potential of the bunch, especially with magic gone, but Haley's an adaptable leader in her own right and what's more, she thinks like a rogue. She's got more of an insight into what Serini's tactics will be and how to exploit them.

Here's hoping the next comic is V, Durkon and Minrah come up with ways to contribute as well. Maybe V will come up with some mundane uses for their spell components, Durkon and Minrah can likely figure out that "wall" isn't stone, etc.

[gatemansgc]

Of all the potential things that could save the day, a flare arrow (that Serini can extinguish in any number of ways as soon as her round is up) was the one you grabbed first?
Eh, hopefully there was some sleight of hand involved and Haley managed to pocket something else real quick.

oh you have a good point there. knowing haley she probably did.

[Ionathus]

Things I love about this strip:

• Elan's awesome and devious monologue!
• The opportunity for non-magic skills to shine!
• The drama of watching a flame arrow leave the AM field.
• Belkar, true to character, being not quite as quick thinking as Haley.

The pacing of this strip being dedicated to the arrow, which only removes darkness rather than causing lasting problems or damage for Serini/Sunny, makes me think this will be a fairly long battle with twists and turns aplenty.

Looking forward to seeing our dear nonmagic Stickers shine!

[bunsen_h]

I'm reminded of Sib Machat's "Evil Eyeball" song.

[b_jonas]

Bluff isn't only about lying. It can also be used to make someone react as you wish for a short time, which is exactly what's happening here. Perform, on the other hand, doesn't have any ability to influence people's behavior.

Unclear. The potion of glibness in #767 has a label saying “+30 to Bluff” and it “only works on things that aren't true”, so it seems like Bluff is only about lies in the OotS universe.

[Quizatzhaderac]

A successful Bluff check indicates that the target reacts as you wish, at least for a short time.

Sure: reacts to your feint, or other attempt (verbal or otherwise) to make the target believe what you want.

The problem with your quote snipping is that the word "bluff" is at the top of the page, and it's obvious that the page's contents should be interpreted as having something to do with bluffing.

D&D is a roleplaying game, which means the narrative spirit of the rules should be considered when possible.

If you want to bluff someone into a reaction, you need to make them believe something. If you're feinting, it's obvious that you're convincing the target theat you are attacking one way, while really planning to attack another.

By analogy, the diplomacy fails to explicitly indicate that can't just stare silently at somebody for a minute, or say "I'm here to kill our comrade and take their stuff, help me." But when still know what the word "diplomancy" means.

[Windscion]

Unclear. The potion of glibness in #767 has a label saying “+30 to Bluff” and it “only works on things that aren't true”, so it seems like Bluff is only about lies in the OotS universe.

That was, methinks, a throwaway line to explain her not telling her Dad that Elan is a good guy, and to underscore that what she actually said to her Dad was a hugemongous whopper. (I.e., "you didn't screw up my life.")

[denthor]

I think we keep forgetting that Elan is, in all likelihood, currently the most convincing human on the planet.

See comic #13 for why this worked so effectively.

[gatemansgc]

I really appreciate the icon choice for this thread.

oh that was definitely on purpose. i usually don't even look at those! the giant is awesome.

[2.5 cats]

Great comic!

I wonder if Serini is going to run out of crossbow bolts at some point. Lots of misses on Haley, and it seems to be her backup weapon. Maybe they have a truce once she's out of ammunition?

[MartianInvader]

I can't wait to see Roy's reaction later when they tell him how Elan saved the day.

[Reboot]

In terms of helping the Order - is this just about Haley's bow? With the magic off, V is "a fragile pointy-eared monkey", and the rest are basically melee-only (plus, Durkon & Minrah could see anyway). With the possible exception of better chances to dodge bolts, can anyone else do anything they couldn't already?