Girl Genius XXIX: A giant corkboard of continuity madness

[Traab]

When I say I don't trust her, and you compare her to the Fae - well, yeah, the Fae are remarkably not-trustworthy folks.
But if Albia is looking at Europa and thinking "That's a storm, and it's going to reach England sooner or later", she may view subjecting large parts of Europa to her rule as necessary for the safety of her current realm.

EDIT: I'm thinking of the idea of "buffer states" / client states more than outright conquest. Make Collette an offer: "You know Gil can't handle the Empire, why don't we at least ensure the Low Countries are stable".

Yeah but there is a difference between not trusting her and not trusting her because you think she intends to take over part of the mainland. Im not saying the idea wont occur to her, im just pointing out that this is hardly the first time europa has been dissolving into chaos and anarchy. Think about the times pre baron, there was every reason to want to establish buffer states and such then too, but she didnt want to. Who knows what happened before during and after the days of the storm king. It may be that there is a reason that in the last thousand years she has done nothing to expand the reach of her kingdom. So while I admit it is a possibility, its not one im particularly thinking is likely.

[Shining Wrath]

Yeah but there is a difference between not trusting her and not trusting her because you think she intends to take over part of the mainland. Im not saying the idea wont occur to her, im just pointing out that this is hardly the first time europa has been dissolving into chaos and anarchy. Think about the times pre baron, there was every reason to want to establish buffer states and such then too, but she didnt want to. Who knows what happened before during and after the days of the storm king. It may be that there is a reason that in the last thousand years she has done nothing to expand the reach of her kingdom. So while I admit it is a possibility, its not one im particularly thinking is likely.

She may be tied to her power source in some fashion and while she can adventure with the Shining Company and the like, she can't expand her empire.
Or maybe her real goal is not land, but tech; specifically, she wants the Mirror in the Red Cathedral.

[Traab]

She may be tied to her power source in some fashion and while she can adventure with the Shining Company and the like, she can't expand her empire.
Or maybe her real goal is not land, but tech; specifically, she wants the Mirror in the Red Cathedral.

Thats possible. Its entirely likely that her power is similar to der kestle or the master of paris. It can only reach so far, so while her people could take over parts of the mainland, she wouldnt be able to exert her all knowing power that far. Of course, this is all speculation and its just as possible she honestly has no interest in expanding her nations borders. I mean, the master had hundreds of years and all he wanted was paris. Maybe immortal rulers lack the sort of drive to expand and grow because they arent like the newly hired manager of a store changing things just to exert authority. They are secure in the power they have and happy with what it brings them. Or uninterested in all the extra work conquering a new nation would entail.

[Shining Wrath]

Thats possible. Its entirely likely that her power is similar to der kestle or the master of paris. It can only reach so far, so while her people could take over parts of the mainland, she wouldnt be able to exert her all knowing power that far. Of course, this is all speculation and its just as possible she honestly has no interest in expanding her nations borders. I mean, the master had hundreds of years and all he wanted was paris. Maybe immortal rulers lack the sort of drive to expand and grow because they arent like the newly hired manager of a store changing things just to exert authority. They are secure in the power they have and happy with what it brings them. Or uninterested in all the extra work conquering a new nation would entail.

The Master, new and old, didn't run Paris. They are/were Paris. That places limits on how much real estate they can administer. Albia's control of England seems less complete, but her rule over her subjects, stronger. Maybe that's it - the more real estate, the less control. Sort-of like the different between a scalpel and a broadsword.

[Ellen]

Nice detail about the records on tablets. We know the Sumerians and Minoans used clay tablets to write on and preserve records. This included stories like Gilgamesh.

And I just realized that Gil's name has been foreshadowing, hasn't it? The culture with the writing we're expecting Zeetha to be able to read may have had records on clay tablets which means they may be connected to the culture in our world that did records on clay tablets which means Gil's name may be a perfectly normal one in his mother's civilization. Am I the only one who took this long to make that connection?

Would Zeetha know her brother's name? If so, has she just thought of "Gil" the way we would if we met someone named John? A common name you wouldn't think has to belong to some other John? And that's assuming people in Europa haven't been mispronouncing it terribly all this time. Look at all those other versions of John after all--Jean, Juan, Owen, Ivan, Eoin, Johan, and probably a few thousand more.

[Fyraltari]

Nice detail about the records on tablets. We know the Sumerians and Minoans used clay tablets to write on and preserve records. This included stories like Gilgamesh.

Not just these. Literally everybody. Papyrus only grows in one specific place, sheepskin is expensive and paper was complicated to invent.

And I just realized that Gil's name has been foreshadowing, hasn't it? The culture with the writing we're expecting Zeetha

Neena can read the tablets, not Zeetha.

Would Zeetha know her brother's name?

I forget, does she know she has a twin?

[geoduck]

Would Zeetha know her brother's name? If so, has she just thought of "Gil" the way we would if we met someone named John? A common name you wouldn't think has to belong to some other John? And that's assuming people in Europa haven't been mispronouncing it terribly all this time. Look at all those other versions of John after all--Jean, Juan, Owen, Ivan, Eoin, Johan, and probably a few thousand more.

I'd say it's very unlikely. Klaus chose the name, referring to the original Sumarian hero in the process.

I forget, does she know she has a twin?

It's never been stated one way or the other. Technically the twins thing is still a Big Reveal that hasn't actually happened in the strip.

[Rockphed]

And the first thing Neena picks up is some sort of sordid romance, possibly an incredibly explicit one. She really has the worst luck.

[Shining Wrath]

These tablets, only Neena can read.
Other tablets back in London only Zeetha could read.
Evidently tablets come in different languages, shocking everyone. I thought they only came in Android and MacOS.

Anyway, the idea that the name "Gilgamesh" was chosen by his mother and is a cultural tell is interesting, and does raise the question of why Zeetha didn't say "Wait a minute! Why do you have a Skifandrian name?" It could be one of those names that get passed around between cultures.

Apropos nothing, the rampaging troops of Pericles sacked most of Sumeria yesterday evening in my Civ 6 game. Gilgamesh doubtless wishes he could challenge Pericles to single combat.

[DavidSh]

In our world, "Gilgamesh" was successfully transliterated from the cuneiform about 1890 or so. For a couple of decades before that, it was read as "Izdubar". Apparently, Akkadian writing had both Akkadian readings and Sumerian readings, sort of like how Japanese writing often uses both Chinese readings and native Japanese readings.

That's about the general era of Girl Genius, isn't it? Of course, archaeology in a world of Mad Science is a bit different from ours.

[Shining Wrath]

In our world, "Gilgamesh" was successfully transliterated from the cuneiform about 1890 or so. For a couple of decades before that, it was read as "Izdubar". Apparently, Akkadian writing had both Akkadian readings and Sumerian readings, sort of like how Japanese writing often uses both Chinese readings and native Japanese readings.

That's about the general era of Girl Genius, isn't it? Of course, archaeology in a world of Mad Science is a bit different from ours.

Gilgamesh was an early Spark, creator of the first Clubbot Clanks.

[Manga Shoggoth]

I forget, does she know she has a twin?

It's never been stated one way or the other. Technically the twins thing is still a Big Reveal that hasn't actually happened in the strip.

It isn't directly addressed in-comic, but Zeetha's treatment of Gil frequently looks like sister teasing brother. However specific points that suggest she knows about it are:

She knows there is a link between Klaus and Skifandar, and the only outsider who should know is Chump, her father. She likley knows the circumstances of Chump's disappearance, and that he took her twin brother with him.

Someone who looks like you might be out to kill me/Really? Chump knows that the Skifandrans see twins* as unlucky, and Klaus believes that Zeetha, a Skifandrian, may have been sent to kill Gil. So putting those two together, Chump must be Klaus, and therefore Gil is her brother. The last two frames are very much Zeetha working this out.

I don't think the reverse is true: Gil has no reason to know that he has a sister, and while it is possible that Klaus has guessed that Zeetha is his daughter, he might simply think that she is another Skifandrian. Depends on how common green hair is, I guess.

* Word of Foglio, not in the comic. All we know in-comic is that Klaus did something Zeetha-related to save his life.

And the first thing Neena picks up is some sort of sordid romance, possibly an incredibly explicit one. She really has the worst luck.

I don't know... Zeetha certianly doesn't think so...

[Scarlet Knight]

And the first thing Neena picks up is some sort of sordid romance, possibly an incredibly explicit one. She really has the worst luck.

Before they leave I believe she will pick up Rakethorne...inspired by this explicit scene. For Queen and Country, you know.

[Fyraltari]

She likley knows the circumstances of Chump's disappearance, and that he took her twin brother with him.

That's what I was asking about. She can't remember her brother, so I was wondering if she knew she had one before she left.

[Manga Shoggoth]

That's what I was asking about. She can't remember her brother, so I was wondering if she knew she had one before she left.

Not stated in comic to my knowledge (very, very little revealed about her life in Skifander, for that matter), but given her reactions noted above I reckon it's a good bet.

[Rakaydos]

Not stated in comic to my knowledge (very, very little revealed about her life in Skifander, for that matter), but given her reactions noted above I reckon it's a good bet.

I agree- the SHOCK! gleeee! reaction screams recognition.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

But then two pages later she's checking out his butt rather appreciatively. Not exactly the response of someone who's recognized their brother.

[Manga Shoggoth]

But then two pages later she's checking out his butt rather appreciatively. Not exactly the response of someone who's recognized their brother.

She looks more like she is being highly amused that Gil hasn't worked out he's naked yet. Literally commenting on it in that frame. And at no other point does she even remotely look like she is eyeing him up.

If you want appreciative glances, then you need these girls...

[Vinyadan]

That Gil - Zeetha moment seems to have been replicated here: https://www.girlgeniusonline.com/com...?date=20191125 although the reaction is far from enthusiastic and rather evasive.

[geoduck]

That Gil - Zeetha moment seems to have been replicated here: https://www.girlgeniusonline.com/com...?date=20191125 although the reaction is far from enthusiastic and rather evasive.

Despite all of this, I'm still totally expecting Zeetha to be as surprised as Gil when the truth is finally revealed. (She really shouldn't be, but I think she will..)

[Ellen]

Not just these. Literally everybody. Papyrus only grows in one specific place, sheepskin is expensive and paper was complicated to invent.

Really? Not doubting you, I'd only read about the Sumerians, Babylonians, and Minoans.

Neena can read the tablets, not Zeetha.

I was mixed up and thinking about when they had Zeetha doing those translations in England. For some reason, I thought they were expecting to find things here she could translate as well.

[Rodin]

Really? Not doubting you, I'd only read about the Sumerians, Babylonians, and Minoans.

It's a bit of a generalization. Writing things down on stone tablets requires actually having writing, which many ancient cultures did not. It's why our understanding of some mythologies is a bit of a mess. Take for example the Norse gods. We know they were around, because we have pictographs carved into stone that show recognizable figures, and you can work out what some of the stories were meant to be from them. However, most of the full stories we know were recorded by Christian monks and missionaries, and were written some time after the original legends had been influenced by by the arrival of Christianity. This means that we're getting the legends through a giant game of telephone - not only did oral tradition change the legends naturally over time, but the more recent tellers were adapting the myths to this new religion sweeping the land and the ones writing it down were filtering through their own non-Norse cultural and religious biases.

That's why something like a romance novel on clay tablets would be immensely exciting to any archaeologist. You're getting a primary source look into the culture of the time, rather than a history written by the winners centuries after the fact. Some of the most prized archaeological finds are things like shopping lists. One famous example is basically a bad Amazon review. "One out of five stars, merchant cheated me and goods are shoddy. Would not buy again."

[Fyraltari]

It's a bit of a generalization. Writing things down on stone tablets requires actually having writing, which many ancient cultures did not. It's why our understanding of some mythologies is a bit of a mess. Take for example the Norse gods. We know they were around, because we have pictographs carved into stone that show recognizable figures, and you can work out what some of the stories were meant to be from them. However, most of the full stories we know were recorded by Christian monks and missionaries, and were written some time after the original legends had been influenced by by the arrival of Christianity.

That's a bad example, we know the Norsemen of the viking age had a perfectly fine writing system and they used it for lots of stuff. It's just that, infuriatingly enough, they seem to have never written any of their religious beliefs down.

[Vinyadan]

That's a bad example, we know the Norsemen of the viking age had a perfectly fine writing system and they used it for lots of stuff. It's just that, infuriatingly enough, they seem to have never written any of their religious beliefs down.

I seem to recall that druids didn't write down anything religious, and we know that there were some cultural exchanges between Germanic and Gallic peoples, so maybe it was something similar.

[Squire Doodad]

In our world, "Gilgamesh" was successfully transliterated from the cuneiform about 1890 or so. For a couple of decades before that, it was read as "Izdubar". Apparently, Akkadian writing had both Akkadian readings and Sumerian readings, sort of like how Japanese writing often uses both Chinese readings and native Japanese readings.

That's about the general era of Girl Genius, isn't it? Of course, archaeology in a world of Mad Science is a bit different from ours.

Given this world's...knack for bypassing our feeble timeline on inventions, I'd say that since the Epic of Gilgamesh IRL had fragments being translated in the 1870s, proper transliteration of the Epic of Gilgamesh in the GG world likely happened a few years before the Baron was banished.

Someone who looks like you might be out to kill me/Really? Chump knows that the Skifandrans see twins* as unlucky, and Klaus believes that Zeetha, a Skifandrian, may have been sent to kill Gil. So putting those two together, Chump must be Klaus, and therefore Gil is her brother. The last two frames are very much Zeetha working this out.[/SIZE]

I read it as Zeetha thinking the Baron might have been responsible for the raid, but looking at it closer I'm inclined to agree with you. Zeetha likely has a strong suspicion, but isn't certain enough to act on it.
Meanwhile, the Baron likely knows if he's had his spies investigate Zeetha and gotten wind of the "queen's daughter" bit, and Gil almost definitely doesn't know at all.

And I just realized that Gil's name has been foreshadowing, hasn't it? The culture with the writing we're expecting Zeetha to be able to read may have had records on clay tablets which means they may be connected to the culture in our world that did records on clay tablets which means Gil's name may be a perfectly normal one in his mother's civilization. Am I the only one who took this long to make that connection?

While as people have said, clay tablets are very common, it's also worth noting that QueenHunter!Lucrezia was ~5,000 years ago in-comic, meaning it was not long after writing was invented in Sumeria IRL. Albia herself likely does not predate Uruk.
The ancient Pre-Queen civilization is more of a "forgotten civilization tens of thousands of years ago" vibe, so the ancient language is definitely not Sumer related. If we assume the queens stretch back several thousand years further back, the pre-Queen stuff is probably meant to be "the first sparks", as in a few millennia after modern human brains came into play. What would that be, 90k years ago?

I, personally, am guessing that Skifander is a pre-Queen civilization that got cut off, then reunited with the other queens by way of the mirror.

[Ellen]

OK, keeping the old post beneath this and adding the new stuff above:

Although this is the reason a lot of early archaeologists are regularly cursed by everyone who came after them, it is way faster.

***

It's a bit of a generalization. Writing things down on stone tablets requires actually having writing, which many ancient cultures did not. It's why our understanding of some mythologies is a bit of a mess. Take for example the Norse gods. We know they were around, because we have pictographs carved into stone that show recognizable figures, and you can work out what some of the stories were meant to be from them. However, most of the full stories we know were recorded by Christian monks and missionaries, and were written some time after the original legends had been influenced by by the arrival of Christianity. This means that we're getting the legends through a giant game of telephone - not only did oral tradition change the legends naturally over time, but the more recent tellers were adapting the myths to this new religion sweeping the land and the ones writing it down were filtering through their own non-Norse cultural and religious biases.

That's why something like a romance novel on clay tablets would be immensely exciting to any archaeologist. You're getting a primary source look into the culture of the time, rather than a history written by the winners centuries after the fact. Some of the most prized archaeological finds are things like shopping lists. One famous example is basically a bad Amazon review. "One out of five stars, merchant cheated me and goods are shoddy. Would not buy again."

I hear you. The problem with changing stories in the oral tradition is that people rarely notice what they're changing. From what I've read, it was normal for ancient Celts to have their children fostered by another family of equal rank. They didn't need an explanation for Arthur being raised up away from home. Later stories needed a reason for that. From there, Arthur goes from Kay's foster brother to the mistreated orphan. Kay goes from a great hero with mighty powers to the Dudley Dursley of the round table.

None of that may have come from anyone deciding to change the story, it was just that they made things fit their changing culture and also fit with other types of stories (lowly orphan discounted by everybody is the rightful king).

So, Norse mythology could have been told by people who thought they were telling them the way they'd always been told and still look absolutely nothing like the original tales, which probably wasn't what was happening.

[Gez]

Khajiit thinks there's something familiar about the way the bears talk.

[Fyraltari]

OK, keeping the old post beneath this and adding the new stuff above:

Although this is the reason a lot of early archaeologists are regularly cursed by everyone who came after them, it is way faster.

Reminds me of the guy who blew up the ruins of Troy while looking for the ruins of Troy.

[Shining Wrath]

I'm thinking Zeetha is looking at a picture of her mother, and realizing that maybe her trip from Skifander to Europa involved time travel shenanigans as well as fever dreams and pirates.

[MDR]

I'm wondering if this area is related to the Witch Queen Lozz, or Queen Sianna (both mentioned by the the early memory they talked to at the Queen's Henge). Or perhaps this is where Albia originally came from, and this is an old library of hers. The fact that there are so many areas devoted to different cultures, and we know that the mirrors need to be attuned to their destinations, it seems too convenient all these cultures are represented somewhere near where a mirror is found.

Also, didn't we find out that Albia had some sort of regret about teaching the deep magics to one or more people, to the point she even blocked the memory away in her Henge? Maybe this is where it all started for her, and she doesn't remember it herself?

If I had to guess, I'd say this is related to Witch Queen Lozz or where Albia had her first Ascension.


As for what is in the room that has freaked out Zeetha...I'm guessing some mythical artifact from ancient history given to whoever owned the place to help attune their mirror. Zeetha takes it and gains a powerup. At some point in the future Gil will also use it or something, which will show he is her brother (I do suspect she knows already, and he may as well, with both hiding that knowledge from each other).
These sealed rooms may be how the mirror way above them used to attune to different endpoints. The user picks a destination, the 'essence' of the room will be activated and flow into the mirror, causing the destination to be connected to.

Edit : Idle thought, what are the chances that Queen Sianna is here, having shut everything down and hid after the attack on the Queens? It was said that there was no word from her since the attack....

Another Edit : Looking back, it does seem like the color of the door energy (especially when it zapped Moonbark) is the same color the statue has running through it and the symbols above the sealed doors are currently glowing. Also, we don't see the face of the statue. What are the chances that is because it has three eyes (i.e. Sianna), and they don't want the reveal to happen just yet?