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2021-09-21, 02:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Location
- Oregon, USA
Re: Fee-Fi-Fo-Fum, Form smells a Random Banter #235
XP costs do hurt more than GP costs. You will catch up on most of the XP, eventually; but you'll be doing the catching up when you're a level behind the rest of your party (and thus getting around a third more XP on the same encounters), and being behind on your class abilities and hit points (and to a lesser extent a possible point in base saves/attack/skills) can certainly hurt. Meanwhile, paying for stuff is basically all gold does; the non-literal price of buying things with gold is the opportunity cost of not being able to use the same gold to buy something else.
Also, the value of treasure by level and level-appropriate gear by level scale exponentially, so player wealth does have self-correction similar to player XP. You can also spend all your gold on one thing if you really want to; whereas the rule that you can't spend enough XP to lose a level forms the main reason of using XP costs in the first place, in that it's something you can't do continuously even if you wanted to. Admittedly, a dedicated "use it or lose it" resource that refreshes when you gain a level could probably have done that better (or at least less messily at the high level); but given how long it took to come up with ways to share XP costs for crafting, I don't think this was a well-recognized scenario when "hey, what if we let players craft their own magic items for less gold, and charged them XP to keep them from becoming gold factories" first came up in a designer's head.Last edited by Jasdoif; 2021-09-21 at 03:54 PM.
FeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
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2021-09-21, 07:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
- Gender
Re: Fee-Fi-Fo-Fum, Form smells a Random Banter #235
Apparently for every one person in my class, there were eighteen rejections. And it seems to be a fantastic time to be getting in, as far as potential upward mobility goes.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2021-09-21, 07:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2013
- Location
- Where I am
Re: Fee-Fi-Fo-Fum, Form smells a Random Banter #235
I also answer to Bookmark and Shadow Claw.
Read my fanfiction here. Homebrew Material Here Rater Reads the Hobbit and Dracula
Awesome Avatar by Emperor Ing
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2021-09-21, 08:04 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
- Gender
Re: Fee-Fi-Fo-Fum, Form smells a Random Banter #235
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2021-09-21, 10:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Gender
Re: Fee-Fi-Fo-Fum, Form smells a Random Banter #235
One thing I'm not clear on, Peelee--will you be able to live in Birmingham and do this job once you've done all the training? Or is this effectively a permanent move to the Frozen North?
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2021-09-21, 10:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
- Gender
Re: Fee-Fi-Fo-Fum, Form smells a Random Banter #235
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2021-09-22, 04:26 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Gender
Re: Fee-Fi-Fo-Fum, Form smells a Random Banter #235
That's a darn shame, it makes that massive building thingy you did a bit of a waste...
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2021-09-22, 04:39 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2017
- Location
- France
- Gender
Re: Fee-Fi-Fo-Fum, Form smells a Random Banter #235
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2021-09-22, 05:03 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
- Location
- In my library
Re: Fee-Fi-Fo-Fum, Form smells a Random Banter #235
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2021-09-22, 05:36 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
- Gender
Re: Fee-Fi-Fo-Fum, Form smells a Random Banter #235
Last edited by Peelee; 2021-09-22 at 05:36 AM.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2021-09-22, 06:04 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2010
- Location
- Netherlands
- Gender
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2021-09-22, 06:44 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
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2021-09-22, 10:48 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2013
- Location
- Where I am
Re: Fee-Fi-Fo-Fum, Form smells a Random Banter #235
I also answer to Bookmark and Shadow Claw.
Read my fanfiction here. Homebrew Material Here Rater Reads the Hobbit and Dracula
Awesome Avatar by Emperor Ing
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2021-09-22, 10:51 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2017
- Location
- France
- Gender
Re: Fee-Fi-Fo-Fum, Form smells a Random Banter #235
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2021-09-22, 02:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2010
- Location
- The Primus Imperium
- Gender
Re: Fee-Fi-Fo-Fum, Form smells a Random Banter #235
Hate me if you want. But that's your issue to fix, not mine.
Primal ego vos, estis ex nihilo.
When Gods Go To War comes out March 8th
Discord: HalfTangible
Extended Sig
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2021-09-22, 02:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2013
- Location
- Where I am
Re: Fee-Fi-Fo-Fum, Form smells a Random Banter #235
That the Cult of Work talking.
Work in and of itself has no value, it's the rewards of work and responsibility that people want. Money, goods, personal fulfillment.
It's not work that people want or need. It's feeling productive. You could live on an island with all of your needs met for your entire life and be unhappy. A job won't make you happy, unless it's work you find meaningful, but if sitting around carving things out of driftwood becuase you like whittling makes you feel productive then that's all you needI also answer to Bookmark and Shadow Claw.
Read my fanfiction here. Homebrew Material Here Rater Reads the Hobbit and Dracula
Awesome Avatar by Emperor Ing
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2021-09-22, 02:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
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2021-09-22, 02:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
- Gender
Re: Fee-Fi-Fo-Fum, Form smells a Random Banter #235
Last edited by Peelee; 2021-09-22 at 02:51 PM.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2021-09-22, 02:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2020
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2021-09-22, 02:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2010
- Location
- The Primus Imperium
- Gender
Re: Fee-Fi-Fo-Fum, Form smells a Random Banter #235
Hate me if you want. But that's your issue to fix, not mine.
Primal ego vos, estis ex nihilo.
When Gods Go To War comes out March 8th
Discord: HalfTangible
Extended Sig
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2021-09-22, 02:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2010
- Location
- The Primus Imperium
- Gender
Re: Fee-Fi-Fo-Fum, Form smells a Random Banter #235
Hate me if you want. But that's your issue to fix, not mine.
Primal ego vos, estis ex nihilo.
When Gods Go To War comes out March 8th
Discord: HalfTangible
Extended Sig
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2021-09-22, 03:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2013
- Location
- Where I am
Re: Fee-Fi-Fo-Fum, Form smells a Random Banter #235
"Work" in the context of "work is what gives you purpose" is usually meant as the idea of working continuously with no true end goal. The idea that work in and of itself is what is important.
"Productivity" is not "work." I don't do any "work" to read a book, and yet spending time reading to me feels like I have done something productive. My writing is not "work," the way it's being used in the sense of the phrase "work gives you purpose." It is something I put effort into, yes, but the people who mostly propagate the idea that "work gives you purpose" woulnd't consider it to be work. And yet, i feel like I've done something productive when I finish writing a chapter for one of my stories.I also answer to Bookmark and Shadow Claw.
Read my fanfiction here. Homebrew Material Here Rater Reads the Hobbit and Dracula
Awesome Avatar by Emperor Ing
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2021-09-22, 03:04 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
- Gender
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2021-09-22, 03:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
Re: Fee-Fi-Fo-Fum, Form smells a Random Banter #235
I somewhat agree with Rater here. Assuming by "work" we mean "labor for sake of material gain" such as a job or making something for sale, there's no inherit personal benefit for the laborer other then said material gain. Painting for its own sake is as beneficial as painting for market.
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2021-09-22, 03:11 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
- Gender
Re: Fee-Fi-Fo-Fum, Form smells a Random Banter #235
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2021-09-22, 03:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2013
- Location
- Where I am
Re: Fee-Fi-Fo-Fum, Form smells a Random Banter #235
Kind of. That's part of it.
The "Cult of Work" philosophy boils down to "working hard is the only thing you need to feel fulfilled, happy, and be successful."
The truth is, working hard only makes you feel successful, productive, fulfilled, or happy when you see tangible benefits from the fruits of your labor. Conversely, there are things that can make you happy, fulfilled, or products that do not require much in the way of effort, at least not the kind of effort that would be considered "work," at all.
It can tie into working for material gain, but it doesn't have to.
It's trying to convince you that performing labor is the same as benefitting from the fruits of labor.Last edited by Rater202; 2021-09-22 at 03:19 PM.
I also answer to Bookmark and Shadow Claw.
Read my fanfiction here. Homebrew Material Here Rater Reads the Hobbit and Dracula
Awesome Avatar by Emperor Ing
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2021-09-22, 03:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
Re: Fee-Fi-Fo-Fum, Form smells a Random Banter #235
I disagree with that assessment. There was a large cultural movement to make labor a source of identity in the Nineteenth and Twentieth Centuries, distinct from the merits of that work. Factory work was tedious and alienating, and cultural mores justifying this were developed that argued that just working hard was itself a moral virtue.
Labor's Lost Love is a good book on the subject, but the saying isn't necessarily from a modern "enjoy your work" approach.
Edit: I also don't think this is an out of date critique. Hustle culture is a real thing, where being overworked is celebrated and work-life boundaries are depicted as lazy.
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2021-09-22, 03:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2013
- Location
- Where I am
Re: Fee-Fi-Fo-Fum, Form smells a Random Banter #235
Yes, this, exactly this.
If you enjoy your work tha'ts fine. Good for you(no sarcasm, if you have a job you love then that's great) but the idea that work is what gives you purpose was initially propagated to convince people that if they weren't happy working, it was there own fault and they should suck it up and keep working.
Of course, it's not limited to strict economic work anymore. When I was in college they tried to convince us that we had to spend four hours studying for every hour in class if we wanted to do college right. At 12 hours a week in class that becomes a 60-hour "workweek."
My experience may be anecdotal... But the only classes that required half that much effort were the ones that we being run unfairly or incompetantly.I also answer to Bookmark and Shadow Claw.
Read my fanfiction here. Homebrew Material Here Rater Reads the Hobbit and Dracula
Awesome Avatar by Emperor Ing
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2021-09-22, 03:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
- Gender
Re: Fee-Fi-Fo-Fum, Form smells a Random Banter #235
Last edited by Peelee; 2021-09-22 at 03:46 PM.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2021-09-22, 03:52 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
Re: Fee-Fi-Fo-Fum, Form smells a Random Banter #235
Maybe in a general sense we are moving away, but the devil is in the details. I work in financial advising and you get the atta boys for staying extra free hours everyday, and the silent treatment if you don't.
There is also a whole bevy of articles above Hustle and Grind culture in the US, where being available to work at any time is seen as necessary for advancement.