Next-strip predictions

[faustin]

I see what you are getting at now - not showing him where the gate is, but revealing that some sort of illusion is in play.

But that can only be a delaying tactic, it's not something that has any hope of confounding Xykon forever. He's marking off the doors, so he would soon realise that he'd checked them all, if not for the MitD interfering. Even with MitD adding to confusion, there's only a finite number of doors (30 or 40 maybe?) and its obvious he's checked lots in the few days he'd been there. It would not take long for him to realise that he's checked more doors than exist. When he realises that, casting superb dispelling would seem the obvious thing to do.

Let's not forget that Xykon is not at all stupid - he's shown that many times.

Plus, both he and Redcloak are immortal. Whatever tricks Serini has under her sleeves to keep them busy, she would run out of them sooner or later.

[b_jonas]

there's only a finite number of doors (30 or 40 maybe?)

Much more. #1203 2nd panel alone shows 111 doors, #1039 last panel shows 114 doors, and #1197 3rd panel and #1189 last panel shows that the canyon is three to five times larger than the section visible there, so I expect there are 400 doors or so.

[Liquor Box]

Much more. #1203 2nd panel alone shows 111 doors, #1039 last panel shows 114 doors, and #1197 3rd panel and #1189 last panel shows that the canyon is three to five times larger than the section visible there, so I expect there are 400 doors or so.

Fair enough, there might be a lot more. But even if there were a thousand, the point would still stand. It would just take longer.

Faustin's point is a good one. They have hundreds of years if they want. But I don't think they need that long since they are sometimes knocking off more than a single door a day..

[brian 333]

And if the gate is behind none of them, how much longer will it take?

The doors appear to be layer 1 of a multilayer defense. The tunnels behind them seem more like staff access than an active layer of defense to me.

There appears to be the belief that we know all there is to know about Kraggor's tomb, but it was designed by a master rogue. I think she would know more about hiding valuables than pretty much anyone in OotSworld. Why aren't we assuming Serini knows what she's doing?

[ziproot]

It appears like once you get past stage 1 (the shell game), you then are put into a complicated cave system, so from there you still have to do a lot of searching to find the gate, and of course Serini's monster friends are probably there, too. And of course there's likely more than that.

[Liquor Box]

And if the gate is behind none of them, how much longer will it take?

The doors appear to be layer 1 of a multilayer defense. The tunnels behind them seem more like staff access than an active layer of defense to me.

There appears to be the belief that we know all there is to know about Kraggor's tomb, but it was designed by a master rogue. I think she would know more about hiding valuables than pretty much anyone in OotSworld. Why aren't we assuming Serini knows what she's doing?

There may well be more layers. But the Order doesn't know about those other layers, so cannot reveal them.

[Vikenlugaid]

Fair enough, there might be a lot more. But even if there were a thousand, the point would still stand. It would just take longer.

Faustin's point is a good one. They have hundreds of years if they want. But I don't think they need that long since they are sometimes knocking off more than a single door a day..

But maybe once Xykon complete all the doors he unlock secret doors, and a new nightmare mode to all the other doors, and then a hardcore mode, and then hardcore+...

The point is, we dont know anything yet.

[Liquor Box]

But maybe once Xykon complete all the doors he unlock secret doors, and a new nightmare mode to all the other doors, and then a hardcore mode, and then hardcore+...

The point is, we dont know anything yet.

Then neither to the Order (they know nothing we don't), so they can't guide Xykon to the gate.

I mean this is exactly the point I started with on the last page. If Serini has lots of impenetrable defences we (and the Order) don't know about, then th Order wont compromise the defences. If Serini doesn't have any further defences, then Xykon would get past it anyway, so the Order being free will not compromise the defences.

[brian 333]

Then neither to the Order (they know nothing we don't), so they can't guide Xykon to the gate.

I mean this is exactly the point I started with on the last page. If Serini has lots of impenetrable defences we (and the Order) don't know about, then th Order wont compromise the defences. If Serini doesn't have any further defences, then Xykon would get past it anyway, so the Order being free will not compromise the defences.

The Order doesn't have to lead TE to the gate. They simply have to show Xykon the secret of the teleport trap to alter the way Xykon goes about solving the puzzle.

As a lifelong puzzle-solver, sometimes all you need is a hint to stop wasting time and begin solving the puzzle, but so long as you continue to use the wrong methodology, the solution will elude you.

The idea that it is inevitable that Xykon figures out the teleport trap is questionable. He may go into every door then assume Monster Hollow is a distraction and that the gate is actually located elsewhere.

[pearl jam]

That outcome would be more hopeful if not for the diary that has already proven to be correct about the locations of the other gates, suggesting he'd probably be less likely to give up on this as the location of the final one.

[Fyraltari]

The idea that it is inevitable that Xykon figures out the teleport trap is questionable. He may go into every door then assume Monster Hollow is a distraction and that the gate is actually located elsewhere.

That seems unlikely.

First, the diary points to this place, it'd be extremely odd for it to lie about only one place.

Second, Building such an impressive array of defense as a simple bluff is improbable.

Third, TE doesn't have any place else to look, if they don't find it behind a door, they're morz likely to tore the place apart, stone by stone if need be.

[Liquor Box]

The Order doesn't have to lead TE to the gate. They simply have to show Xykon the secret of the teleport trap to alter the way Xykon goes about solving the puzzle.

As a lifelong puzzle-solver, sometimes all you need is a hint to stop wasting time and begin solving the puzzle, but so long as you continue to use the wrong methodology, the solution will elude you.

The idea that it is inevitable that Xykon figures out the teleport trap is questionable. He may go into every door then assume Monster Hollow is a distraction and that the gate is actually located elsewhere.

As others have noted, for a few reasons it's very unlikley Xykon would assume the gate was somewhere else.

Xykon will only continue to use the wrong methodology until it's obvious it will not work (when he's been there long enough to know he's checked all the doors).

All he has to do to find it is cast superb dispelling (a spell he has multiple uses of every day). That would seem an obvious thing for him to do in a world where magical illusions are so common. In the OotSverse illusions to guard stuff is as common as burglar alarms in the real world. He's been distracted from the possibility of an illusion at present by the very obvious dungeons, but once he has eliminated those it is nearly inconceivable that he wont try to dispel.

Or as Fyraltari says, if all else fails, he'll use brute force and destroy the hollow itself. Redcloak can surely summon various burrowing monsters.

I don't doubt that the Order might help him find it sooner, but that will only cost time. He'd find it by himself anyway.

[ziproot]

Techincally, Xykon does not have an infinite amount of time. This is because eventually, the snarl will break free.

[Liquor Box]

Techincally, Xykon does not have an infinite amount of time. This is because eventually, the snarl will break free.

Do we know that the snarl will eventually break free while the final gate remains intact?

This seems irrelevant anyway, because if the Snarl breaks free then the question of Xykon getting the gate becomes irrelevant.

[brian 333]

As others have noted, for a few reasons it's very unlikley Xykon would assume the gate was somewhere else.

Xykon will only continue to use the wrong methodology until it's obvious it will not work (when he's been there long enough to know he's checked all the doors).

All he has to do to find it is cast superb dispelling (a spell he has multiple uses of every day). That would seem an obvious thing for him to do in a world where magical illusions are so common. In the OotSverse illusions to guard stuff is as common as burglar alarms in the real world. He's been distracted from the possibility of an illusion at present by the very obvious dungeons, but once he has eliminated those it is nearly inconceivable that he wont try to dispel.

Or as Fyraltari says, if all else fails, he'll use brute force and destroy the hollow itself. Redcloak can surely summon various burrowing monsters.

I don't doubt that the Order might help him find it sooner, but that will only cost time. He'd find it by himself anyway.

Which illusion? I'm sorry if I missed something, but I'm aware of the teleportation trap. There are no illusions.

As for why he might look elsewhere, he is very aware of the old shell game, where the pea is under none of the walnut shells, and instead is in the palm of the operator. He used a version of this in Azure City. Why, after determining the gate is behind none of the doors, would he not consider the possibility that the doors are empty walnut shells and that the pea has been palmed by the operator?

[Fyraltari]

Do we know that the snarl will eventually break free while the final gate remains intact?

This seems irrelevant anyway, because if the Snarl breaks free then the question of Xykon getting the gate becomes irrelevant.

Thor did imply that without the Dark One's essence added to the mix, any containment measure is going to fail sooner than later.

Not that Xykon is aware of this, of course.

Which illusion? I'm sorry if I missed something, but I'm aware of the teleportation trap. There are no illusions.

But Xykon would likely think of illusions when trying to find something hidden. Superb Dispelling would dispell any theoretical illusions AND the teleporting trap, wouldn't it?

As for why he might look elsewhere, he is very aware of the old shell game, where the pea is under none of the walnut shells, and instead is in the palm of the operator. He used a version of this in Azure City. Why, after determining the gate is behind none of the doors, would he not consider the possibility that the doors are empty walnut shells and that the pea has been palmed by the operator?

But he has no "operator" in sight. Where else would he look? He's not going to leave until he's exhausted all other options. Given how mayhem-prone he is, it won't take long before he start a more... Vigorous approach to searching the area.

Edit: and again, if these were fake coordinates "why just this specific set?" and "why build an extremely-ressource consuming dungeon complex to protect nothing when you could have used those to defend the actual Gate?"

Girard used misdirection but his fake coordianates pointed to a random spot in the desert where he buried a bomb. He attempted, as a last-ditch measure, to make it look like gis entire pyramid was a misdirection too, but Haley and Roy saw through it immediately because it would have been a terrible plan.

[Liquor Box]

Thor did imply that without the Dark One's essence added to the mix, any containment measure is going to fail sooner than later

So are we talking the same timescale as if the gates had been left unmolested? Like decades or centuries?

[No good @ names]

Which illusion? I'm sorry if I missed something, but I'm aware of the teleportation trap. There are no illusions.

Not a D&D player myself, Divination would be dispelled as well though, revealing the true corridor??? So effectively the same?
Ref: - Comic 1223 (Too new to post link)

As for why he might look elsewhere, he is very aware of the old shell game, where the pea is under none of the walnut shells, and instead is in the palm of the operator. He used a version of this in Azure City. Why, after determining the gate is behind none of the doors, would he not consider the possibility that the doors are empty walnut shells and that the pea has been palmed by the operator?

Yeah, having the confrontation back at the entry is unlikely to happen now, it’d be narratively silly. It’ll be at the final gate, either by Team Evil giving up hunting the Order and figuring out the ruse, OR them figuring out the ruse whilst hunting the Order, who have gone ahead to the gate with Sereni.

[KorvinStarmast]

Yeah, having the confrontation back at the entry is unlikely to happen now, it’d be narratively silly. It’ll be at the final gate, either by Team Evil giving up hunting the Order and figuring out the ruse, OR them figuring out the ruse whilst hunting the Order, who have gone ahead to the gate with Sereni.

I am pretty sure that Serini doesn't want any battle to be near the gate, since a high level battle has a decent chance of collateral damage harming the gate. If there's to be a battle, it needs to be at "x" distance from the gate. If she and Roy discuss this, I am pretty sure that she'll point this out, and that he'll see the wisdom of that position.
1. Gate in the middle of a battle, set on fire
2. Gate being fought adjacent to; (Order and Team Evil, attempt to goad a pure of heart into activating gate) button pushed.
3. Gate being fought adjacent to; (Team Evil and Paladin Order); Gate chopped.
4. Gate not being fought adjacent to; destroyed as a preventative measure.
5. Gate should not be fought adjacent to, and the agreement not to destroy it as any kind of measure in order to keep the world from ending.

Caveat: IFCC has not thrown their curve ball yet. All parties want to protect the gate for their own reasons, but IFCC may not want to. Keep an eye open for their evil plan.

Caveat: gods may lose patience and end it due to {something} but as that happens off screen, I don't think that's gonna happen. This story is about the Order of the Stick.

[Doug Lampert]

But Xykon would likely think of illusions when trying to find something hidden. Superb Dispelling would dispell any theoretical illusions AND the teleporting trap, wouldn't it?

Depends on where he casts it. Superb dispelling needs line of effect and even for area effect it needs the target point to be within 30' of the spell he wants to take out. If he goes to the end of the dungeon and casts it, no effect at all.

If a dispel check of 40+1d20 isn't enough, then no effect at all.

If the superb dispelling is not cast as an area dispel, then no effect at all.

If the superb dispelling IS cast as an area effect, then if the teleportation trap is an item effect, no effect at all (area dispels don't do anything much to magic items) or if there is a second sacrificial spell of caster level 1 higher than the teleportation trap then the effect is to take out the sacrificial spell.

If rather than trying an almost certainly futile epic level Superb Dispelling to take out an entirely hypothetical illusion, he instead has Red Cloak throw a level 5 cleric spell (True Seeing) which can cover a walk through an entire empty dungeon or two (17 minute duration per casting, and Red Cloak could prepare about 17 castings a day) then all illusions fail and he doesn't need Superb Dispelling and he gets no effect at all.

[No good @ names]

I am pretty sure that Serini doesn't want any battle to be near the gate, since a high level battle has a decent chance of collateral damage harming the gate. If there's to be a battle, it needs to be at "x" distance from the gate. If she and Roy discuss this, I am pretty sure that she'll point this out, and that he'll see the wisdom of that position.

But, but, mah narrative. Elan and Tarquin would support my position. Narrative matters.

2. Gate being fought adjacent to; (Order and Team Evil, attempt to goad a pure of heart into activating gate) button pushed.

IIRC, that was Durokan's Gate only, not confirmed to be built into other Scribblers' gates. Not impossible though as Serini was on good terms with Durokan?

[Squire Doodad]

IIRC, that was Durokan's Gate only, not confirmed to be built into other Scribblers' gates. Not impossible though as Serini was on good terms with Durokan?

I mean, it would justify keeping the Order away from Xykon if the Gate's final line of defense is one of Dorukan's "pure heart" sigils (and make Serini's belief she can just let Xykon do whatever nominally more valid), but that'd be a bit too close to a deus ex machina for my tastes and possibly undermine the stakes.

[brian 333]

My long term prediction involves the gate's eventual destruction. However, that's still most of a book away, and likely to be temporally near the destruction of Xykon.

My next strip prediction, for which I have a 100% average, and a debt of 60 quatloos, (because I have been wrong every time,) is that in the next strip Serini actually listens to The Order and in the one after that we learn from her, "The Thing You Didn't Know..."©

[dancrilis]

My prediction is that Serini will be aware of the godsmoot from decades ago and might be familiar with the more recent one - and might have a different take on the gods likely actions then The Order.

[KorvinStarmast]

My prediction is that Serini will be aware of the godsmoot from decades ago and might be familiar with the more recent one - and might have a different take on the gods likely actions then The Order.

Why would she have attended a godsmoot? She's not a cleric, and she's not a cleric's bodyguard. Being "aware of a godsmoot" isn't the same as attending one, right?
Why would she be aware of the recent godsmoot? (Remember, it was a secret).

I will admit to becoming a bit impatient to see the curve ball the IFFC is going to throw, so I'll be happy to see the bickering between Serini and the Order wrapped up sooner, not later. That said, if she does indeed have a "here's something you don't know" item that will be satisfying. (Per Brian 333's post)

[dancrilis]

Why would she have attended a godsmoot? She's not a cleric, and she's not a cleric's bodyguard. Being "aware of a godsmoot" isn't the same as attending one, right?

Correct.

We know from Shojo that Soon's team was concerned about the gods taking matters into their own hands (panel 4), which may imply knowledge of the godsmoot at the time. Whether Serini is aware of that or perhaps even attended is unknown.
But it seems likely to me she knew about it at least (seperately we still don't know how Soon's team found all the rifts so perhaps divine guidance may have played a part).

If she knew about that one she might keep her finger on the pulse relating to new godsmoots being called and may seek to monitor them also.

But as of now my only prediction is that she is is aware of the godsmoot from her youth and such will be revealed in the next strip(s) with surrounding information.

[halfeye]

My prediction at this point is a scene skip, and Serini and the Order of the stick aren't in 1256.

[Peelee]

My prediction at this point is a scene skip, and Serini and the Order of the stick aren't in 1256.

I'll take that bet.

[Precure]

Serini: "What the hell is a guardrail?"

[KorvinStarmast]

My prediction at this point is a scene skip, and Serini and the Order of the stick aren't in 1256.

IFCC?

Correct.

We know from Shojo that Soon's team {snip}

Thanks for spelling out your thinking, there are a number of 'intuitive leaps' or 'reaches' involved, but at least I see where you are headed with that.