How did Sarah Greenhilt die?

[PLD]

We know Roy’s Mother died in the year 1181, when Julia was 14. Her Husband was revived three times during their marriage before his death of old age. Why did Sarah not want to come back to be with her daughter?

Does this mean Sarah died of Old Age? If she died at 72, the minimum old age death per rules, then this means she gave birth to her children at 46, 53 and 58. The characterisation of Sarah as choosing the age of 19 as her forever form, meeting Eugene in a drunken hook up at what would have been the age of 44 and only birthing Roy after Birth Control spells which failed doesn’t really match with a woman who embraced Geriatric Pregnancy?

Not to mention Regular Human Women turn infertile at 50. Did Sarah take feats and magic items to prevent this? For the progeny of a man she regretted meeting. And then she doesn’t put resources into living (or un-living) to see her daughter become an adult? Doubtful.

All this paints to the house of Greenhilt being dark and dysfunctional. Based on what we know the only conclusions we can extrapolate are either a) Julia is not the daughter of Sarah and is instead a magical creation of Eugene, hence Seah does not care what happens to it or b) Sarah Greenhilt killed herself to join her son in Celestia and The Deva’s are cool with that.

Thoughts?

[Keltest]

Or she just died young. It happens. My father passed away before he hit 60. It doesnt mean my household was horribly dysfunctional or anything.

[Fyraltari]

We know Roy’s Mother died in the year 1181, when Julia was 14. Her Husband was revived three times during their marriage before his death of old age. Why did Sarah not want to come back to be with her daughter?

Does this mean Sarah died of Old Age? If she died at 72, the minimum old age death per rules, then this means she gave birth to her children at 46, 53 and 58. The characterisation of Sarah as choosing the age of 19 as her forever form, meeting Eugene in a drunken hook up at what would have been the age of 44 and only birthing Roy after Birth Control spells which failed doesn’t really match with a woman who embraced Geriatric Pregnancy?

Not to mention Regular Human Women turn infertile at 50. Did Sarah take feats and magic items to prevent this? For the progeny of a man she regretted meeting. And then she doesn’t put resources into living (or un-living) to see her daughter become an adult? Doubtful.

All this paints to the house of Greenhilt being dark and dysfunctional. Based on what we know the only conclusions we can extrapolate are either a) Julia is not the daughter of Sarah and is instead a magical creation of Eugene, hence Seah does not care what happens to it or b) Sarah Greenhilt killed herself to join her son in Celestia and The Deva’s are cool with that.

Thoughts?

Or she died in a way that left her body irretrievable like being lost at sea.

I wouldn't put too much thought in the age thing, too. Shojo managed to age to octogenarian in around 50 years.

Edit:

Or she just died young. It happens. My father passed away before he hit 60. It doesnt mean my household was horribly dysfunctional or anything.

In fairness, I doubt your parents had a close friend who can bring the dead back to life.

[PLD]

Or she died in a way that left her body irretrievable like being lost at sea.

I wouldn't put too much thought in the age thing, too. Shojo managed to age to octogenarian in around 50 years.

Edit:

In fairness, I doubt your parents had a close friend who can bring the dead back to life.

If she died lost at sea, how does Roy know she’s dead? Why isn’t THAT his quest? Maybe it was and that why he needed to dangle the oracle from a window?

I don’t know it just feels implausible

[Keltest]

If she died lost at sea, how does Roy know she’s dead? Why isn’t THAT his quest? Maybe it was and that why he needed to dangle the oracle from a window?

I don’t know it just feels implausible

I mean, if you fall overboard, people tend to notice when you arent on the ship even if you don't get seen in the actual act of falling overboard.

[hamishspence]

The OOTS timeline, according to the fan wiki, has them meet around 10 years after Xykon killed Fyron, with this date being, around 1153:

https://oots.fandom.com/wiki/Timeline

The Giant has stated that she was 19 when they met.

If she died in 1181, then that makes her 47 when she died.

[Laurentio III]

I would assume that Eugene didn't want to resurrect her, instead of not being able. Or, she refused. Or both.
Not everyone is resurrected. Most of the people stay dead, otherwise there would be a serious shortage of diamonds in a single generation.
Eugene is more that able to contact her in the afterlife and ask her if she really wants to have him to resurrect her.
An afterlife were she is a young hot, in a place full of good aligned people, caring for the lost younger child that, if I understood correctly, died because of her husband magic.
Would you really want to turn back? To your deadbeat uncaring donkey-hole of a husband?
I wouldn't.

[brian 333]

Self image and biological age do not align. I recently tried to move a log, only to discover I am no longer the testosterone-fueled 25 year old I once was. The thing is, it never occurred to me that it was too big to lift, until I failed to lift it.

Sarah, in trying to maintain her physical body to match her self image, may have used magical means to preserve her youth and fertility.

On the other hand, in Roy's flashback to his early childhood, she was already grey-haired.

So, while we may never know The Giant's intention, my head canon is that she was a party-girl in her youth who didn't settle down until later in life, possibly after having conceived Roy. And we know that Julia's birth was caused by the loss of Eric, when she was much older, so there probably was some form of fertility treatment going on there.

[hroþila]

Based on what we know the only conclusions we can extrapolate are either a) Julia is not the daughter of Sarah and is instead a magical creation of Eugene, hence Seah does not care what happens to it or b) Sarah Greenhilt killed herself to join her son in Celestia and The Deva’s are cool with that.

I wish I was this confident about anything ever.

She died young and either couldn't be raised or didn't want to come back for a number of perfectly valid reasons (for example, her children were already in their teens, Roy had graduated from college, Julia was already studying to become a mage, they didn't need her so much that she'd feel she had to abandon Eric). It's not that complicated.

[hamishspence]

So, while we may never know The Giant's intention, my head canon is that she was a party-girl in her youth who didn't settle down until later in life, possibly after having conceived Roy.

The main comic was pretty clear that the death of Fyron was 40 years before the present.

Start of Darkness was pretty clear that Eugene and Sara did not meet and pair up until after Eugene stopped searching for Xykon - and that he spent 10 years searching.


And we have Word of Giant that this was when she was 19 - hence her comment about "still thinking of herself as the 19 year old who had never heard of Eugene Greenhilt."

She just went grey early, and got osteoporosis early.

On the other hand, in Roy's flashback to his early childhood, she was already grey-haired.

Late childhood - "just about to head off to fighter college" shows a couple of white hairs, and the rest of the hair being very dark grey.

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0113.html

I would assume that Eugene didn't want to resurrect her, instead of not being able. Or, she refused. Or both.

Eugene died before Sara did - 1180, compared to Sara dying in 1181.

[dancrilis]

For how she died we know she suffered from osteoporosis so she did seem prone to ailments - she may have had a low constitution score and so was frequently ill, one of those illnesses may have killed her.

For why she didn't come back my assumption is that when she died and got to be with Eric and either by prior agreement was not attempted to be raised or choose not to be raised when it was attempted (also if she was level 1 she would likely have lost more constitution).

For the progeny of a man she regretted meeting.

I see no reason to assume that she regrets meeting Eugene - she sees herself as the woman she was before she met him, but a lot of people remember the formative teenage years better then the non-formative years, she perhaps settled into a routine when she has a husband and kids and a lot of it kindof blended together where her life before that was how she still saw herself when she was thinking about who she was (perhaps she was not sickly in her youth either and may have been raised once before which is why she suffered from ailments in later life).

[hamishspence]

The implication is that the early stages of their marriage were very happy, and the late stages not so much, with Eugene "having drifted away from me and back to his career" as Sara puts it:

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0495.html

[Laurentio III]

Eugene died before Sara did - 1180, compared to Sara dying in 1181.

And so, who would have to resurrect her? Ten thousand gold coins is not the budget of a college student.

Anyway, in Sarah pants, I would not have a reason to go back to life.

[hamishspence]

Eugene did have old cleric adventuring friends who'd resurrected him a couple of times - but that doesn't mean they'd go to considerable lengths to resurrect her - not after Eugene's death.

[Keltest]

Eugene did have old cleric adventuring friends who'd resurrected him a couple of times - but that doesn't mean they'd go to considerable lengths to resurrect her - not after Eugene's death.

Even if they would, resurrection is not free. If theyre all retired, it may just not have been in the budget at that point.

[hamishspence]

Yup. Raise Dead is cheaper than Resurrection, but it's not cheap.



Given that Roy and Julia have not seen each other in some 3 years-odd, that this scene takes place in 1184:

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0342.html

and that Sara dies around 1181, I'd say it most likely works as follows.

Sara dies.
Message is sent to Julia's school informing her of the death.
Sending spell is sent by Julia, or one of her teachers, to Roy - hence him knowing Sara is already dead during the Dungeon of Dorukan quest.

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0015.html

Roy makes arrangements for Julia's tuition fees to continue. Possibly, he returns home, attends the funeral with Julia, and this is the last time they see each other before Julia is kidnapped by Nale.

[Metastachydium]

Most of the people stay dead, otherwise there would be a serious shortage of diamonds in a single generation.

Well, technically the Plane of Earth would have an endless supply. It's more of a money/do-you-know-someone-of-a-high-enough-level-who-happens-to-care issue.

She just went grey early

Which is not surprising, given what she had to live through (Eugene, Eugene, Eric's death (because of Eugene), Eugene &c.).

For how she died we know she suffered from osteoporosis so she did seem prone to ailments - she may have had a low constitution score and so was frequently ill, one of those illnesses may have killed her.

For why she didn't come back my assumption is that when she died and got to be with Eric and either by prior agreement was not attempted to be raised or choose not to be raised when it was attempted (also if she was level 1 she would likely have lost more constitution).

Okay, "Sarah only had one level and a CON score of 2" is my headcanon now.

[Peelee]

Based on what we know the only conclusions we can extrapolate are

The only conclusions you can extrapolate are not necessarily the only conclusions others can extrapolate, as others have already demonstrated.

[Fyraltari]

If she died lost at sea, how does Roy know she’s dead?

How do you think do people know in real life people died at sea? Besides, that was just an example. Durkon's father also died in a way that left his body irretrievable. Plenty of way that can happen. Landslides, rampaging monsters, fires...

Why isn’t THAT his quest?

Why isn't what his quest?

[Metastachydium]

rampaging monsters

Remember, kids! Stickverse owlbears have Swallow Whole!

Why isn't what his quest?

Dying at sea trying to do this (but without regiment-sized units of friendly goblinoids backing up him and his 3 levels in fighter)?

[mjasghar]

Wait a minute
How old was Eugene when he met her? If he spent at least 10 years looking for Xykon he must have been 30 or so when she was 19.

[hamishspence]

The timeline says he was born in 1102 (probably from the gravestone seen in Orign of PCs). Which would make him 51 when they met around 1153.

[Synesthesy]

We know Roy’s Mother died in the year 1181, when Julia was 14. Her Husband was revived three times during their marriage before his death of old age. Why did Sarah not want to come back to be with her daughter?

Does this mean Sarah died of Old Age? If she died at 72, the minimum old age death per rules, then this means she gave birth to her children at 46, 53 and 58. The characterisation of Sarah as choosing the age of 19 as her forever form, meeting Eugene in a drunken hook up at what would have been the age of 44 and only birthing Roy after Birth Control spells which failed doesn’t really match with a woman who embraced Geriatric Pregnancy?

Not to mention Regular Human Women turn infertile at 50. Did Sarah take feats and magic items to prevent this? For the progeny of a man she regretted meeting. And then she doesn’t put resources into living (or un-living) to see her daughter become an adult? Doubtful.

All this paints to the house of Greenhilt being dark and dysfunctional. Based on what we know the only conclusions we can extrapolate are either a) Julia is not the daughter of Sarah and is instead a magical creation of Eugene, hence Seah does not care what happens to it or b) Sarah Greenhilt killed herself to join her son in Celestia and The Deva’s are cool with that.

Thoughts?

You are forgetting that going back to her alive sons (who were big enough, and doing well with their lives far away from home) would mean leave alone the dead child she didn't have the opportunity to spend enough time with.
I can see no reason (and I'm Italian and I'm used to people leaving their family the first time in their middle 30s) why Sarah should return to life in that situation.

[Fyraltari]

The timeline says he was born in 1102 (probably from the gravestone seen in Orign of PCs). Which would make him 51 when they met around 1153.

That depends how old he was when he studied under Fyron. The mage was more of a father to him than gis actual father, so he may have been on the younger side. if he was say, 15, when Fyron died, then he was 25 when he met Sara as a 19 years old.

Edit: I checked SOD , Eugene enrolled in magic school at twelve, graduated, apprenticed under Fyron for four years and then kept in regular contact for some time until the murder, putting him at 25 at least when he embarked on his quest.

Question, though: where do the ten years of searching and 19-year-old Sara come from? A quick search through soD and OtOoPCs tell me Eugene spent "years" looking for Xykon and in the main comic Sara just says that at age 19 she hadn't met Eugene yet

[dancrilis]

Question, though: where do the ten years of searching and 19-year-old Sara come from?

On the ten years I do not know it is mentioned on the timeline with no link so suspect it is not official.

Sarah being 19, (note I do not encourage looking at the topic where this is mentioned in any great depth, unless you are comfortable being perhaps annoyed at things written on the internet some years ago).

Note that Sarah was pretty monogamous in life, however; she met her husband at age 19.

Edit:
10 years comes from SOD page 77.

[hamishspence]

I checked SOD , Eugene enrolled in magic school at twelve, graduated, apprenticed under Fyron for four years and then kept in regular contact for some time until the murder, putting him at 25 at least when he embarked on his quest.

Question, though: where do the ten years of searching and 19-year-old Sara come from?

10 years comes from SOD page 77.

And the "40 years ago" date for Fyron's death" comes from the main strip:

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0110.html

Sara's having been married to Eugene for "almost 30 years" does so as well.

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0495.html

Combined with the gravestone in Origin of PCs, "Eugene was 41 at the start of his search for Xykon" is fairly firmly cemented.

[Fyraltari]

And the "40 years ago" date for Fyron's death" comes from the main strip:

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0110.html

Sara's having been married to Eugene for "almost 30 years" does so as well.

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0495.html

Combined with the gravestone in Origin of PCs, "Eugene was 41 at the start of his search for Xykon" is fairly firmly cemented.

Okay.

I think a difference in age that big would have been commented on in-story if it were intentional. I suspect that this is due to The Giant not paying as much attention to established details of canon and internal chronology as we do.

[hamishspence]

Alternatively, the Giant knows his chronology just fine, and wanted to emphasise that those two definitely were a May-December relationship.

[Fyraltari]

Alternatively, the Giant knows his chronology just fine, and wanted to emphasise that those two definitely were a May-December relationship.

It's definitely possible, but it wouldn't be the first mistake (c.f. Shojo) and if he wanted to emphasise it, wouldn't he... point it out rather than leave it as a math problem you nedd three different books to solve?

[hamishspence]

Shojo being referred to as an "octogenarian" when he's actually only 72 isn't what I'd call a huge mistake - especially when it's other characters calling him that, rather than him himself.