OOTS #1269 - The Discussion Thread

[Emmit Svenson]

Both are inconsistent with a wisdom score of 22+.

It's in the realm of Sense Motive, which is a Wisdom-based skill that I can completely believe Durkon has never put a single point into. +6 and bad rolls are enough to justify how often he misses others' social cues.

[Riftwolf]

It's in the realm of Sense Motive, which is a Wisdom-based skill that I can completely believe Durkon has never put a single point into. +6 and bad rolls are enough to justify how often he misses others' social cues.

The thread has moved on. We're now discussing the Librarianship of Second Age Archivists.

[hroþila]

That'd explain why it took Gandalf 17 years of research if Numenorians wrote everything down on long-life magical paper. All those receipts for bad copper...

Ah yes, Eä-Narsil.

In comparison, Galadriel is handed a scroll by an archivist in Numenor a few hours after she gives him a request; he was the curator of a huge archive filled with scrolls. (Scene from Rings of Power).

Sir. SIR.

(I sorta kinda liked the series but still)

[brian 333]

The Librarian's last day:

"Sir? A Mr.Isildur has an overdue copy of The Care And Feeding Of White Trees. Shall I impose late fees on his account?"

"Let's give him a few days."

"But, Sir, if we don't maintain strict return policies..."

"What's the worst that can happen? The island won't sink beneath the waves over an overdue library book."

*rumblerumblerumbleRUMBLE!*

[Quizatzhaderac]

I'm thinking that Tolkien would actually have a pretty good idea how long it takes to find references to something in a thousand year old scroll, being as that his profession involved thousand year old texts.

[KorvinStarmast]

I'm thinking that Tolkien would actually have a pretty good idea how long it takes to find references to something in a thousand year old scroll, being as that his profession involved thousand year old texts.

He was also, as a pipe smoker, very familiar with the blowing of smoke rings.

[dave_smith354]

Isildur was a Numenorian. They were famous for their casual use of magic items and their knowledge of how their world works. He wasn't jotting down notes on mass-produced loose leaf college ruled paper.

My headcanon is that he, casually and without thinking too much about it, used magically treated parchment and ink. That's just the way they did things, back then.

Numenorians didn't cast spells, but they learned their writing system, including how to manufacture their tools, from the elves. Most of the elves who survived the battle with Sauron were still alive, and they would have wanted their notebooks to remain readable at least until they sailed into the West.

I'm thinking perhaps a race with lifespans of 1,000-3,000 years might have a significant stabilising effect on linguistic drift. On the other hand they are few in number compared to humans, and might not want to be prescriptivists.

Also I just realized they have their own language, and barely a handful actually bothered to learn the languages of men through the ages. Still, I don't think we can make comparisons with our reality, it's clear Middle Earth had far superior preservation (magically enhanced or otherwise). Perhaps it's just something we shouldn't look at too closely.

[KorvinStarmast]

I'm thinking perhaps a race with lifespans of 1,000-3,000 years might have a significant stabilising effect on linguistic drift.

300-500 years. Elros died in about 450 SA. Nobody else was as long lived as he. His reign lasted 410 years.

[elros]

300-500 years. Elros died in about 450 SA. Nobody else was as long lived as he. His reign lasted 410 years.

Long live the king ;-)

[brian 333]

300-500 years. Elros died in about 450 SA. Nobody else was as long lived as he. His reign lasted 410 years.

And elves don't die at all unless they are killed. Galadriel lived at least from before the crossing of the ice until the defeat of Sauron. My guess is 5000 years, and still kicking. Legolas' father probably remembered the first stars being set in the sky.

[bunsen_h]

And elves don't die at all unless they are killed. Galadriel lived at least from before the crossing of the ice until the defeat of Sauron. My guess is 5000 years, and still kicking. Legolas' father probably remembered the first stars being set in the sky.

According to the big LotR wiki, Galadriel lived for 138 years in the Years of the Trees, then through the 590 years, 3441 years, and 3021 years of the First, Second, and Third ages respectively.

"Call these stars? They're nothing like the stars we had when I was a lad..."

[danielxcutter]

I thought people died when they're killed? :D

[bunsen_h]

I thought people died when they're killed? :D

Yes, but Tolkien's Elves don't die of "natural causes". Which category doesn't include venoms, gravity, vicious animals, etc.

[Fyraltari]

Legolas' father probably remembered the first stars being set in the sky.

Nah, Thranduil's at least a second generation Elf since we know he had a father, one Oropher. The first Elves woke up when Varda placed the very last stars in the sky.

[danielxcutter]

Yes, but Tolkien's Elves don't die of "natural causes". Which category doesn't include venoms, gravity, vicious animals, etc.

*grumblegrumblethatwasareferencegrumble*

[Laurentio III]

*grumblegrumblethatwasareferencegrumble*

If you mean the "People die when are killed" meme, other than being old, it is a memetic mutation of a more plain phrase. It's popularity is largely based on cropping out the context.

[dave_smith354]

300-500 years. Elros died in about 450 SA. Nobody else was as long lived as he. His reign lasted 410 years.

I should perhaps have made it clearer that I was referring to elves, not Numenoreans. It's been a while since I read the appendices.

[arimareiji]

If you mean the "People die when are killed" meme, other than being old, it is a memetic mutation of a more plain phrase. It's popularity is largely based on cropping out the context.

My understanding is that "People die if they are killed" grew out of an awkward translation of Fate: Stay Night, and its initial* popularity grew from amusingly encapsulating a tendency for shounen protagonists to have more passion than common sense. https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/peopl...hey-are-killed

* - I just don't want to cause a Dragon*Con incident. (I recently saw a bunch of younger people get mad at someone who contradicted their knowledge that it's always been primarily a sci-fi convention.)

[Tzardok]

It's more or less both.

In Japanese phrases like that are relatively common, while sounding strange to English speakers (see also a common phrase in shonen anime: "He wouldn't die, even if you killed him.") A better translation that involved context would have been "People should die when they are killed", but even with the translation they actually used it's understandable what was meant if you, well, take it in context.

[arimareiji]

It's more or less both.

In Japanese phrases like that are relatively common, while sounding strange to English speakers (see also a common phrase in shonen anime: "He wouldn't die, even if you killed him.") A better translation that involved context would have been "People should die when they are killed", but even with the translation they actually used it's understandable what was meant if you, well, take it in context.

Individual mileage may vary. (^_^)

When I watched FSN, Shirou came across as one of the best/worst examples in existence of a protagonist with more passion than common sense. One scene (before he started leveling up in any way) left a vivid impression of "You're a girl, so even though you're a heroic spirit (bordering on demigod) who can take far more punishment than my frail mortal body, I'll jump between you and another heroic spirit to protect you!" (o_0)

[Fyraltari]

Individual mileage may vary. (^_^)

When I watched FSN, Shirou came across as one of the best/worst examples in existence of a protagonist with more passion than common sense. One scene (before he started leveling up in any way) left a vivid impression of "You're a girl, so even though you're a heroic spirit (bordering on demigod) who can take far more punishment than my frail mortal body, I'll jump between you and another heroic spirit to protect you!" (o_0)

Spoiler: Same vibe, but inverted

Show

[Precure]

(Why didn't Minrah get stuck?)

She's more sensitive and fast.

[bunsen_h]

Spoiler: Same vibe, but inverted

Show

Spoiler: Well...

Show

Thing is, there are some weapons that would hurt Superman but not Lois -- kryptonite-based ray guns, say. And I'm pretty sure that on at least one occasion, Supes' powers were temporarily transferred to Lois.

[Fyraltari]

Spoiler: Well...

Show

Thing is, there are some weapons that would hurt Superman but not Lois -- kryptonite-based ray guns, say. And I'm pretty sure that on at least one occasion, Supes' powers were temporarily transferred to Lois.

Yeah. This isn't Lois and this isn't one of those. That woman died and that thing wouldn't have hurt him.

[danielxcutter]

Spoiler: Well...

Show

Thing is, there are some weapons that would hurt Superman but not Lois -- kryptonite-based ray guns, say. And I'm pretty sure that on at least one occasion, Supes' powers were temporarily transferred to Lois.

Ignoring that sufficient amounts of anything would be bad for your health, doesn't kryptonite cause cancer in humans with long exposure. Or was that just JLA?

[arimareiji]

Ignoring that sufficient amounts of anything would be bad for your health, doesn't kryptonite cause cancer in humans with long exposure. Or was that just JLA?

Just extrapolating, that sounds like a completely-logical development for an element that emits radiation which can penetrate every substance but lead... but also sounds a great deal like a one-off plot device that was rarely if ever used again. XD

(Googled, and it appears to bear out - this property is mentioned on wikipedia, but there are far more mentions of all the various permutations of kryptonite that have been similarly contrived as plot devices.)

[Peelee]

Just extrapolating, that sounds like a completely-logical development for an element that emits radiation which can penetrate every substance but lead...

Speaking of, superman's vision sounds carcinogenic.

[Fyraltari]

Speaking of, superman's vision sounds carcinogenic.

Isn't that an SMBC page?

[Peelee]

Isn't that an SMBC page?

I could be mistaken, but not that I recall. Wienersmith tends to be more depressing with his Superman takes.

[Fyraltari]

I could be mistaken, but not that I recall. Wienersmith tends to be more depressing with his Superman takes.

That may not be an SMBC joke, but I definitely remember reading a comic about superman working as a cancerologist who keeps finding tumors wherever he looked at in his patients.