Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

[Fyraltari]

I'm not saying that Anakin is objective (he's not), only that he is at least theoretically more objective than essentially every other member of the Order. Since the Jedi obviously weren't going to go with a non-Jedi for something like this he's as good as it gets.

I mean, they have outsiders they trust, like Bail Organa or that diner owner Obi-Wan knows, I'm sure they could find someone. It's not really a complaint though. I just find it funny that they went to Anakin for someone whose attachments wouldn't get in the way of completing his duty.

Windu says it himself in AotC "Jedi we have left."

I don't remember, in hwich scene?

The Order, in the PT, is at the end of a prolonged, massive decline in size, one traceable to both a decline in recruitment and extremely harsh standards for becoming a Jedi - the very existence of the Service Corps, which probably contains more members than there are Knights, is emblematic of this. Jedi numbers during periods such as KotoR, SWTOR, or even the New Sith Wars that immediately preceded the current post-Ruusan Era were orders of magnitude higher.

What would the decline be caused by?

This is a critical point with regard to everything surrounding the PT and the Rise of the Empire and it's a fundamental part of the Rule of Two plan of Darth Bane. The Jedi and Sith respond to each other. Every time the Sith grow strong the Jedi rally and the Order absolutely explodes in numbers and strength. When the Sith weaken, the Jedi for there is no active threat they find it necessary to oppose. Standing at the tail end of one thousand years of unprecedented peace and prosperity the Jedi Order is cripplingly weak and monstrously overstretched. 10,000 knights and masters is barely enough to patrol Coruscant (with 1,000,000,000,000 citizens), never mind the whole galaxy.

The notion that there would be more Jedi in periods of war than peace makes zero sense to me. War is when Jedi are getting killed, prosperity ought to make them grow. The idea that the rule of two would weaken the Jedi Order seems rather bizarre.

Except we see Jedi make their own lightsabers in this very show and it is a decidedly not-technical process.

What? Yes it is. They have blueprints to follow and Petro places a matrix the wrong side up turning his lightsaber into a miniature bomb. Just because they're using telekinesis rather than pliers doesn't make it non-technical. The crystal is the only magic part. The rest is mundane technobabble.

The opposite is true. The Jedi have a highly focused education that is extremely esoteric. They are monks, and they practice a monastic regimen, one that happens to include a highly martial component. Yes we see characters with other skills but those characters are mostly elite exceptions. TCW has an unfortunate tendency to focus on the most elite 0.1% of all Jedi, not anyone average. Most Jedi don't fly their own ships, they have someone else to fly them around, whether its a member of the service corps, Judicial Officers (like the guys who fly Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan to Naboo in TPM) or just piloting droids.

If that's true, it's the wonder the Jedi get anything done. (which might explain things, in hindsight.)

For the record, in Legends the light-side ending of Kotor II is canonical, in which Meetra Surik rejects basically everything Kreia has said throughout the game. Also, Surik (the Jedi Exile) wasn't responsible for the restoration of the Jedi Order, since following the events of the game she reunited with Revan and was killed attempting to defeat Valkorion (in his guise as the Sith Emperor Tenebrae) and spent centuries in a bizarre second career as a Force Ghost. The Order was instead reorganized by Visas Marr, who was Darth Nihilus' former apprentice and never listened to Kreia much at all.

The Light Side ending doesn't have the Exile reject everything Kreia said, that's the Dark Side ending (the one where Kreai is almost frothing in anger at the purposelessness of your actions). In the Light side ending she seems borderline proud of the Exile (not as much as in the neutral ending). The game is very open to interpretation by design and what the exile learned or didn't is of course up to the players, but my interpretation of what it's getting at is that Kreia is using the socratic method to teach, deliberately making the Exile confront and question her and manipulates event to wipe both of the Sith and the Jedi's old guard out so that the Exile and their companions may renew the Jedi into a less dogmatic and and rigid organisation, more in line with rEvan's philosophy, so that they could stand to the True Sith and do better by the galaxy. Yes the Exile wasn't the one to do so, but Visas, Mira, Bao-Dur, Brianna and Mical would and they are The Exile's apprentice and heirs to whatever it was that they kept from Kreia's teachings.

[Mechalich]

The notion that there would be more Jedi in periods of war than peace makes zero sense to me. War is when Jedi are getting killed, prosperity ought to make them grow. The idea that the rule of two would weaken the Jedi Order seems rather bizarre.

Militant organizations are usually more popular during times or war than times of peace, whether that's the army straight up or paramilitary religious groups like the Jedi. The only time this isn't true is when there's no public support for the conflict. Since the Jedi generally only fight defensive wars, that doesn't really apply to them. Every time some hideously evil empire attacks the Republic - in Legends this happened with distressing regularity - Jedi recruitment surges, especially if the Jedi Order drops the barriers to recruitment and does things like accept adults. Now, obviously there's a time lag involved since it takes years to train up a full-fledged Knight, but most galaxy-scale conflicts are prolonged enough that a few decades to fully expand isn't a big deal.

The key aspect of the Rule of Two is that the Sith went into hiding. They stopped trying to dominate the galaxy using massive fleets and giant armies. Freed from the pressure imposed by the Sith (and all their various wannabees and hangers-on) the Republic inaugurated an era of unprecedented peace and prosperity. It even expanded it's territory by astonishing amounts, taking control of huge chunks of the Outer Rim and bringing at least a semblance of democracy and the rule of law to areas that had previously had none. In doing so it made the Jedi appear unnecessary. They were relics of a bygone age who weren't worth the tax dollars the Republic was paying to support them and whose strange religious quirks came under ever-greater scrutiny as a result.

Then, when the Republic, overextended by its prolonged expansion and subject to outdated legal systems suited for a much smaller state, began to suffer massive corruption and a huge economic downturn starting ~100 BBY (partly natural, partly due to the background machinations of Darth Plagueis), the Jedi Order was not strong enough to hold the peace together. The Disney canon actually sets the date of 82 BBY as the end of the 'High Republic' Era. Various Legends material, such as the Republic comics run which directly informed the development of TCW (Asajj Ventress and Quinlan Vos were lifted more or less wholesale from such sources) go into the gradual decline and lack of sufficient Jedi resources in some detail.

[Sapphire Guard]

What's with this 'purging the old ways via extermination' being a positive thing SW keeps doing?

It doesn't really make sense to have Anakin investigate, but main characters get main character privileges.

It is broadly true, in that most Jedi are only good at one or two things outside their normal field of duty and it's not enough to maintain the supplies they need to perform their duties.

Well, insofar as they're not full time mechanics, sure, but that's true of basically everyone else in the galaxy too. You would have individual Jedi who specialise in different things, some of them would be good engineers, some of them would be good forensic , and so on. By the nature of Jedi=ing, though, they will have to spend long periods on missions away from home, so they'd need a good grounding in how to maintain their gear themselves.

[Mechalich]

Well, insofar as they're not full time mechanics, sure, but that's true of basically everyone else in the galaxy too. You would have individual Jedi who specialise in different things, some of them would be good engineers, some of them would be good forensic , and so on. By the nature of Jedi=ing, though, they will have to spend long periods on missions away from home, so they'd need a good grounding in how to maintain their gear themselves.

Their gear is pretty simple though. Jedi carry a lightsaber and their clothes and in many cases almost nothing else. They may use starships, or speeders, and such, but since they generally don't own them (it is variously implied in some sources that Jedi don't own anything, with even their lightsabers being ultimate the property of the Order) and the likelihood that they would break down on any given mission is fairly low they don't need to know how to maintain them because some really basic repairs - similar to the average person's relationship with their car. The average clone trooper carries much, much more gear that they need to be able to maintain and repair than a Jedi does.

As to spending missions far from home, that's an interesting conundrum, actually. Jedi Knights aren't explorers, especially not during the PT era where they have a dedicated Exploration Corps for that purpose. The Knights are actually paramilitary government operatives whose role is most similar to militarized intelligence agents, something like Ethan Hunt of the Mission Impossible films. They'll spend a lot of time in 'rough' areas, but only rarely leave civilization behind.

[Peelee]

Their gear is pretty simple though. Jedi carry a lightsaber and their clothes and in many cases almost nothing else.

You're forgetting utility pouches and food cartridges. The utility pouches almost certain weren't empty, though there's not really much on what they had in them. At least rebreathers, apparently, according to TPM.

[Mechalich]

You're forgetting utility pouches and food cartridges. The utility pouches almost certain weren't empty, though there's not really much on what they had in them. At least rebreathers, apparently, according to TPM.

Some Jedi are carrying additional resources, some are not, which is why I said 'in many cases.' Even when they do carry additional gear much of it is probably disposable. For example, the rebreathers in TPM, neither Obi-Wan or Qui-Gonn had the least idea how to maintain or repair those, and frankly it wouldn't make sense for them to know that. They were disposable items requisitioned for a single mission to a highly aquatic planet. And there are Jedi who we know aren't carrying the least bit of gear beyond their lightsabers because we can see it, such as Aayla Secura and Ahsoka (problematic as it may be, some Jedi apparently go into battle wearing lingerie. Sith too).

I'm not saying that Jedi don't carry gear, they do, and in earlier eras they often wore fairly complex armor that they presumably personally maintained, but they carry much less gear than a comparable non-Force-using elite paramilitary. Boba Fett, for example, has enough gear on him to outfit an entire company of Jedi.

[Peelee]

Some Jedi are carrying additional resources, some are not

Most, if not all, do. It's usually concealed by the outer robes but when they shed that virtually all Jedi have pouches and food capsules on their belts.

For example, the rebreathers in TPM, neither Obi-Wan or Qui-Gonn had the least idea how to maintain or repair those

I don't recall a scene where they needed to repair or maintain them and were unable to.

[Dargaron]

I don't recall a scene where they needed to repair or maintain them and were unable to.

To build off of this, don't they also, immediately afterwards:

1: Pilot an unfamiliar alien submersible?
2: Navigate said alien submersible through what Boss Nass describes as "the planet core"?
3: Repair said alien submersible in a matter of minutes after it loses power during a monster attack?

The opening to TPM isn't a very good place to look for evidence of Jedi lacking a well-rounded skillset. And Obi-Wan/Qui-Gon aren't usually characterized as uniquely tech-savvy Jedi.

[Peelee]

To build off of this, don't they also, immediately afterwards:

1: Pilot an unfamiliar alien submersible?
2: Navigate said alien submersible through what Boss Nass describes as "the planet core"?
3: Repair said alien submersible in a matter of minutes after it loses power during a monster attack?

Sure, but they also had Jar Jar Binks with them, so ya know, each of those things would have been even harder.

[Fyraltari]

Season 5, Episode 18: The Jedi who Knew too much

Spoiler: Recap

Show

According to the opening narration, Letta's last name is "Turmond" and not "Bomani" as I had assumed based on her husband's name. This is what I get for living in a patriarchy. anyway we open with the funeral of the six Jedi who died during the bombing. PResent are many Jedi as well as important Republic people, such as Palpatine, MAss Amedda, Bail Organa, Mon Mothma, Wilhuff Tarkin and some I don't recognize. Yoda makes a little speech about being "luminescent beings" and that the flesh is a temporary vessel. He asks for a moment of silence to remember them. Moment of silence that Ahsoka quickly breaks by asking Barris Offee, who is standing next to her, if she knew any of them. Indeed, one of them called Tutso Mara used to train with her and even taught her the correct way to grip a lightsaber. Yoda concludes that the dead will live through them and the bodies are lowered into cremation devices.

Later, Ahsoka, Barris and Anakin are walking with Tarkin on his way out. Ahsohe tells them that Letta has been moved away from Jedi custody and into the hands of the Republic's military. Ahsoka takes offense at this, saying that the investigation is a Jedi affair. The admiral counters that clones were killed too, and that an attack on the JEdi is also an attack on the Senate. Anakin agrees, especially since Letta isn't Jedi herself. Ahsoka gets angry and says that if LEtta is guilty she should be dealt with. I'm not sure why she would expec tthe GAR to be more lenient towards a suspect than the Order. Anakin tells her to calm down, revenge isn't the Jedi way and all that. Tarkin adds that the Chancellor is very insistent that the Jedi be removed from as many military affairs as possible. After all, don't they themselves insist they are peacekeepers, and not soldiers? Point for team Palpatine on that one. Ahsoka hopes Palps knows what he's doing. "I assure you that he rarely does anything without a strategy." Dun, dun, dun. Barris tells Anakin and Ahsoka she has stuff to attends to (calling them "Masters", what the hell) and takes her leave. Anakin tells his padawan to go be with her friend and joins Tarkin in the elevator leaving the Temple. tHey note that, in certain ways, she is still very young. Well, what do you expect, she's like 14.

Ahsoka catches up to Barris who accepts her offer of company. Tano admits that she's conflicted, it's hard not to form attachment and be in pain when things like this happen. Offee asks her if she's ver wondered if ignoring their emotions is really the right thing to do. She quotes Anakin saying "our struggle as Jedi is to move past them." She damits it isn't easy, but doable. She reminds her of the two of them being buried under rubble on Genonosis, all the way back in season 2, and how they managed to move past their fear. Barris says Ahsoka has always been capable of seeing clearly and Ahsoka deflects the compliment, saying sh emust have fooled Barris and everyone else. However, Anakin calls Ahsoka as they're needed in the war room. Something about a Separatist attack. before leaving, Tano tells Offee that she (Ahsoka) "has to" believe that one way or another Letta will pay for what she's done. Barris doesn't really reply to that, just telling her not to keep Anakin waiting. Ahsoka runs off while Barris looks sad and unsure.

In the war room, Holobi-Wan Kenobi discusses moving troops to Saleucami, going out of their way through the Anuat system to avoid some neutral systems. I note that Anakin and Ahsoka are the only non-masters present in the room. It looks like the two of them really are given tasks and trust above their station. Kind of makes Anakin's expectation to be promoted in RotS feel a bit more justified. He's interrupted by a call from Tarkin to inform them that Letta wants to speak to Ahsoka. She won't say why, but refuses to speak to anyone else. Ahsoka agrees and promises to report everything to the Jedi. The military base she's headed to is a huge building shaped somewhat like the top of Republic destroyer, surrounded by anti-air towers and semany parked tanks and gunships. The clones stationned there all have red markings on their armor, making them look more intimidating. She's greeted by Commander Fox, who congratulates her on catching Letta on behalf on the clones killed in the attack. He has her scanned and demands her weapons and comm-link before letting her through, which she obliges to. They cross a corridor barred by several shield-like obsatcles before reaching the cells, who are ligned up in an hexagonal corridor with angled doors leading to a flight of stair descending into the cell proper, just like on the Death Star. That an the variation on the Imperial March playing really drive home how empire-like the Republic is turning. Fox unlocks the door to Letta's cell and she walks in.

Letta tells Ahsoka that she was told that should she need help, she should contact Ahsoka. Tano asks Fox to leave them alone, which he does. Letta tells Ahsoka it wasn't her idea to feed Jakar the bomb, there is someone else behind all of this, a Jedi. She's coming forward with this now because she's afraid for her life. Ahsoka doesn't believe her. Letta says many like her think the Jedi Order have become warmongers, killers instead of peacekeepers. And that one Jedi agreed with them. And that Jedi was the one one who came up with the plan to attack the Temple to make a statement. She realizes now that she's been set-up and wants to bargain the identity of the mastermind for protection. Ahsoka insists she tells her but just before she can, she starts choking and levitating. We cut to a security room where the camera feed shows Ahsoka reaching for Letta who is flying and choking. Wait a minute. On those other screens. That's Watt Tambor, Poggle the Lesser and someone I don't recognize. ARE YOU TELLING ME THEY'RE STILL CAPTURED AFTER ALL THAT TIME! What the hell? The camera feed dies and the clone monitoring it warns Fox who rushes there with a couple grunts. He gets there just in time to see Ahsoka touching Letta's lifeless body. He says he doesn't blame her but has to put her under arrest, despite her cries of innocence.

Later on, Admiral Tarkin visits Ahsoka in her own cell. She tells him she doesn't know what happened, just that Letta was afraid of a Jedi. He doesn't need explanation, though, as the camera feed is recorded. He shows her an hologram of her, arms strectched out towards a flying, struggling Letta and notes that "curiously" the sound isn't working on this one. He concludes she's guilty, especially given how upset she was about Letta being placed in military custody. He doesn't believe anybody could sneak in a facility this secure, and if some Jedi did, how come Ahsoka didn't sense them? She has no answer and he leaves. Later yet, Skywalker, worried about Tano, is arguing with Fox to be let in. However, the commander has received strict orders from Tarkin not to let anyone in the presence of Ahsoka. He makes a scene so Fox has him escorted out by clonetroopers with electrostaffs, noting that this is Tarkin's jurisdiction, not Anakin's.

Even later on, Ahsoka realizes that the door to her cell is open (with a ray-shield in place, instead) and on the other side there's a keycard laying on the ground. She thanks Anakin for not letting her down and levitates Force-moves the keycard to open her cell completely. Well, since his training made you this reckless, I'd say he's let you down a lot. She walks out wondering what his plan is. She gets to the checkpoint, finding all the ray-doors wide open and three clones laying unconscious on the ground. As they start to wake up, she picks up her lightsabers and comm-link from the ground where they were just resting inconspicuously. He comm is beeping but she only hears white noise trying to answer it. this distract her long enough for Fox to walk in on the other side of the checkpoint and sound a general alert. there's a random homage shot of a protocol droid and an astromech walking down a corridor as Ahsoka runs past them and into a trio of clone who immediately run after her, while yelling at her to stop. One of them closes balst doors deliberately stopping them form running after her, for some reason and tells Fox where she is. Ahsoka cartwheels through closing blastdoors and run into Fox. She takes a turn and comes across three more clones. Dead ones. With clear lightsaber inflicted wounds still hot. Anyway, Fox starts blasting. She runs off while he calls in a code red and orders to shoot to kill. Anakin runs (with Rex in tow for some reason) and tells him to belay that order (at no point does he visibly do so). Rex doesn't believe Tano would do this, but if it's not her, who? Anakin starts talking loudly to Ahsoka, with the echo carrying his voice to her, telling her to stop running. She says she's being set up. She stops running and tells him she's being set up. Shouldn't every clone in the vicinity converge toward her if she can be heard that clearly at such a distance? Also, this place must be noisy as **** with accoustics like that. All I'm saying is this would have been a great place to use some of that good old force-telepathy form ESB. Skywalker believes her, but she doesn't think anyone else will and runs away again. Anakin has Rex call secuirty to have them search the entire base. He does so, pointing out that Commander Tano should be considered armed and dangerous. So, about that, shoot to kill order?

There's another ANH homage shot with a squad of troopers running past a hiding Jedi, only Ahsoka hid in the ceiling, unlike Obi-Wan. She makes her way to the courtyard where the clones are using some kind of lizard attack dog to search for her. The courtyard is full of giant statues of armoured clones, a huge golden wall with writing I can' make out on it (list of battles, maybe?) and many red flags (heh!) with the Republic's logo emblazoned in black on them. Hmm, it's pretty rare to see actual flags in SW. Ahsoka eaveds on lizard-dog by climbing up the statues. Interestingly the lizard handler is wearing scout-trooper armor with a piece of cloth flapping over the lower side of his head. Fow walks into the courtyard and spots Ahsoka. She runs on top of the wall towards the parked speeders while the clones (and one anti-air turret!) fire at her. The turret destroys her turret and the explosion knocks her back, I guess she figures the clonetroopers are too close for her to steal a gunship or something so she run away on foot. Anakin gets there and Fox informs him she's running towards the "industrial pipelines". Anakin yells "set weapons to stun! I want her alive!" We're really big into ANH today, aren't we?

Ahsoka runs on catwalks alongside the pipelines while taking stun-fire from multiple directions. She parries with her lightsaber, which I guess puts to rest the question of whether lightsabers can parry those blue circles thingies. They can, but not reflect them, apparently. Two gunships take off and Anakin reiterates his order not to shoot to kill, he wants them to box her in, and for the gunships to act as his eyes in the sky. I think he calls one of the pilot "Eyeball". IS that the clone's actual name? Clones are closing in on Ahsoka so she jumps over some big reservoir things to another catwalk, but despite her mobility, she can't outrun a gunship. One of them flies parallel to her and opens its doors, with the clones inside raining stun-fire on her. One of them tires of it and shoots a rocket next to her (on the industrial pipelines!) knocking her off the catwalk, allowing the clones on foot to catch up to her. She runs some more until she finds herself surrounded. She jumps on a pipeline and cuts a hole open in it, jumping inside.

Turns out the pipelines are completely empty, save for some water at the bottom. And also form a maze, which ahs got to be the least effective way to make a pipeline. If they wanted a sewer chase scene, why not have it be in an actual sewer. Besides since Coruscant is literally covered in buildings, they would probably need storm drains like the one those "sewer" often look like in movies and games. Of course, Skywalker and the clone run after her, but without the visibility they had previously, they have to spread out at each crossing. Anakin, sensing his Padawan through the force is the only one who correctly guesses which way she went and catches up to her as she reaches an opening. An opening overlooking a huge pit descending in the belly of the planet-city. She accuses him of not even trying to come and help her. He says they wouldn't let him through and forcing his way would have done more bad than good. She insists she's not guilty and he says that the only way to prove her innocence is to come back with him now. She doesn't now who to trust. He insists she need to make her case to the Council. She refuses to take the fall for someone else. he orders her to come with him and asks her to trust him (in that order), while ignoring Fox (I think) calling for him. She says she trusts him, but no-one else will believe her. So he has to trust her now. He says he does and she says she knows that. Then she jumps off and onto a descending ship just as Fox and Rex get there. Anakin clearly could follow but doesn't. End of the episode.

Spoiler: My thoughts

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Well, I hope miss "running proves you're hiding something" will reconsider her position, now.

This one was really good, showcasing very well the turn for the worse that the Republic is undergoing and the chase scene's switch from location to location kept it from feeling dragged out.

I wish we had seen more of Ahsoka and Barris's friendship though. This is the first time we've seen Barris since season 2 (plus a little silent cameo last episode). Would it have been that hard to show them interact in the few episodes where Ahsoka was at the Temple? This reminds me of Padmé's Rodian "uncle" who got to have a couple scenes in the arc that killed him off but had disappeared from his introduction to that.

Tambor and Poggle still being in jail is wild. Remember how Gunray being taken prisoner was such an emergency for Sidious he had Ventress under orders to kill him if necessary to prevent the Jedi having an opportunity to talk to him and Dooku burned his mole in the Senate Guard? Why aren't these two just as important? Also, remember how Embo and the bounty hunters involved in the plot to assassinate the Supreme Chancellor casually escaped off-screen?

Not sure why Rex was in this one, he seemed redundant with fox, but maybe it will matter in the rest of the arc.

Tarkin's little comment about Palpatine and strategies is interesting. I don't think he knows Palaptin is playing both sides and intends to destroys the Jedi, but he definitely realized that Palpatine is working to turn the Republic more authoritarian (maybe even make himself Chancellor-for-life) and is trying to curtail the powers of the Jedi ORder, something Tarkin agrees with both as a matter of principle and because he wants to be in a good position with the coming New Order. He is probably cultivating his friendship with Anakin at least partially because he figures the Jedi's golden boy and Palpatine's protégé will probably be useful to his career at some point. I suspect that's why he apparently allowed Anakin to come back to visit Ahsoka, to protect their working relationship.

Letta wasn't very clever, was she? It seems she expected the traitor to make the grand political statement that ought to have come with the terrorist attack and came to the Temple to try to work out why that wasn't happening. Still, since she suspected the traitor to be setting her up, her doing what they told her and call Ahsoka is really the dumbest move possible. Should have called for anyone else, really. Anakin even.

Her being instructed to call Ahsoka specifically, instead of just any Jedi is interesting. This is a targeted attack. I guess it makes sense to target someone who was off-world during the attack, both to ensure they wouldn't be killed and also because it makes it look like Ahsoka deliberately crafted an alibi for herself. Of course I suspect Ahsoka wasn't suspected at random. One part of any good frame-up is still missing though: the fake motive. I'm guessing a big pile of credits traceable to the Trade federation of the Intergalactic Banking Clan will be found in Ahsoka's cell at the Temple. It's a pretty good plan, as far as I can tell the one real gamble was whether Ahsoka would try to escape, but anyone who knows her a little bit could guess that. But Tarkin is right that it is very odd that Ahsoka and Anakin couldn't sense the presence of the traitor in their vicinity at any point. Speaking of Tarkin, I wonder if he's involved? He was the one who authorized Ahsoka to visit Letta, kept her isolated and presented her with the obviously tampered with recording, not caring about the broken audio. Obviously his help would explain how the traitor got access to the prison, could sabotage security equipment and get away with it. Tarkin has no obvious reason to go after Ahsoka, in fact she saved his life back during their escape of the Citadel (but I don't expect him to be grateful in any way), but Palpatine might have told him to, in an effort to further emotionally isolate Anakin. Especially since he didn't seem overly fond of her in the early seasons.

Ahsoka taking the bait is kind of dumb, but completely in character, like Anakin said, she's till young and like I said, his training isn't doing anythin to curb her impulsiveness. She can't accept not doing something to get her out of this mess and is so eager for action she doesn't even question the obvious bait. Like Yoda says "The [girl] has no patience [...] never [her] mind on where [she] was, what [she] was doing. You are reckless!"

Next up: To Catch a Jedi. Obviously Ahsoka will be hunted by the Republic and the Jedi all over Coruscant while she tries to find out who's really responsible.

We're getting really close to the maximum page count of a thread. I had hoped to finish the season before that, but it looks like it isn't happening, so I am most likely going to make a new thread to post the next episode in.

[Kornaki]

I take it from your post that you have no guess which jedi set this whole thing up right now?

[Fyraltari]

I take it from your post that you have no guess which jedi set this whole thing up right now?

I think I remember being spoiled that, but I might be wrong.

[Grim Portent]

I think I remember being spoiled that, but I might be wrong.

In retrospect it was a genius move for it to be Gascon from the last droid arc. I never saw that coming.

[Kornaki]

I feel like the only reasonable candidate is Palpatine, who has both the means to do everything that was done, and also the motive to put anakin against the other jedi on whether ahsoka is innocent.

It also fits with the theme of the last episode, that Palpatine is cleaning up loose ends so everything is ready for the next movie.

That said, it's being played up as a mystery, and Palpatine is such an obvious candidate, that it's probably someone else.

[Sapphire Guard]

He doesn't believe anybody could sneak in a facility this secure, and if some Jedi did, how come Ahsoka didn't sense them?

Spoiler

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This is an excellent point that is never addressed. How did the real culprit get in?

[dancrilis]

Spoiler

Show

This is an excellent point that is never addressed. How did the real culprit get in?

Spoiler

Show

The dark side of the force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural.

[Fyraltari]

I didn't notice it at the time, but during last episode, when a clonetrooper shot a rocket at ahsoka, she lost her lightsabers and only Force-pulled back her original, long, green one, leaving the short, yellow one behind.

we are still on page 49 of this thread, with thirteen posts left to go before we hit page 50, so I'm posting this episode review here, and with luck, I can post the next one too (I'll ty to do it beofre the end of the week), meaning that we'd start the next thread with the first episode of season 6 and that this one would cover the inirial run of the show exactly, which is too nice for me not to try. Therefore:

Season 5, Episode 19: To Catch a Jedi

Spoiler: Recap

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A storm is raging outside the Temple, for the mood, I assume. Admiral Tarkin is informing the Council of the state of the investigation: he has little doubt that Ahsoka Tano used the Jedi mind trick so that a sldier would let her out, before killing him and five other clones. Hold on six clones died? We only saw three corpses last time. And that doesn't make sense. The clones keeping her lightsabers were knocked out and were waking up when Fox stumbled on her. after that she was only moving away from the detention area, which they know because they closed the blast doors and everything, she can't possibly have backtracked to kill the clone who opened her cell. Obviously, the three additional clones were killed by the traitor to procure the keycard, but even if they were killed using the Force rather than lightsabers, it doesn't make sense for Ahsoka to then switch back to non-lethal force with the three at the checkpoint. However you cut it, that story doesn't hold up. I don't know, guys, I fell like this tarkin guy may not be interested in catching the real culprit. Anyway, Master Plo Koon doesn't beleive Ahsoka would do such a thing, but Tarkin deosn't care what the Jedi believe, as far as he's concerned, Tano is responsible for the bombing and the murder of republic soldiers (and Letta's), which he calls sedition, before hanging up on them (rude). Skywalker refuses to believe Ahsoka is guilty of any of that (even Yoda thinks she may be) and thinks she's trying to prove her innocence. because of how hard it is to find someone as skilled as Ahsoka in Coruscant's lower depths, Yoda elects to send two teams after her, lead by Anakin and Plo respectively. That's an... interesting choice considering both of them just voiced their belief in Ahsoka's innocence. Windu, however, objects to Skywalker taking part in this. As Ahsoka's master, he worries ani is too emotionally tied to her to act as he should. Obi-Wan supports Anakin and SKywalker "proves" his commintment to capturing her by saying it's the best way to find out the truth and that he's already send a general oder to be on the look-out for her in the lower depths. This convinces Yoda who sends them on their way.

Down, down to Goblin-Town in the undercity, Coruscanti police officers are spreading some sort of "WANTED" poster of Ahsoka among their own. I can't tell whether these guys are meant to be clones, their faces are all covered. And they completely fail to notice her, just across the street. She calls Barris Offee with her communicator. She won't tell her where exactly she is, but she tells her she's afraid someone in the Temple is framing her. Barris tells her calling on a Jedi device isn't safe, so she should find another way. In the meantime, Offee will find out whatever she can in the Temple. Ahsoka thanks her and stomps her communicator. She approaches a drunk, seemingly homeless man on the sidewalk and trades him a stick of food(?) in exchange for his cloak. It's large enough to hide her silhouette and, fortunately the man (a goat-alien) had made some hole in the hood for his horns that suit her own horn-like crest-thingy well enough. Not gonna lie, this is leagues ahead of the usual "let's pull our hood up lol" Jedi disguise.

She gets on the subway, but a pair of policemen appears, asking for everyone's passes. She tries to step out of the wagon just before they get to her, but runs into three more who were g
stepping in and is immediately identified. She manages to Force-push one out of the train but the other four run after her while their colleague warns all units of her location. She runs, but has to beat the four up when a random guy slows her down by attempting a civilian arrest (or whatever it is that Peelee will tell me it's actually called), but ultimately has to jump off the ride and onto the platform of a station the train didn't stop at. Where three more policemen just happe to be. How many of them does one line need? she runs out of the station and into an elevator whose door closes just as the police opens fire on her. They miss, but one stray shot hits the controls and the elevator freefalls. What's more, there's a twi'lek child in the cabin with her. Ahsoka, slightly panicking, tries to reassure the kid before jumping to the roof and slicing a hole in it. The child yells at her in a language she doesn't speak before pressing the "emergency stop" button, bringing the cabin to a sudden halt. Ahsoka admits to not being on her game today. In fairness the fact that nothing (not even a label) distinguishes that button from the other ones is a real design flaw. She cuts a hole in the wall and jumps out while carrying the child. She thanks the kid for helping her and let them run to their mother who was waiting for them at the foot of the elevator. I wonder where that kind was, unsupervised without carrying any bag of any sort in this kind of neighbourhood that their mom was waiting for them in the street rather than at home. Seems to me the scene would have made more sense if the mother was the passenger Ahsoka pushed out while getting in and she'd have come in by with the next elevator (there are four tubes). Tano wlaks away, unaware she's being watched by a masked woman.

Meanwhile, onboard what looks like a cross between a Republic gunship and a TIE fighter, Rex reports to Anakin that Ahsoka was spotted on level 1312. Ahsoka is walking through a deserted part of town when she is tackled to the ground by her masked stalker who draws twin red lightsabers to her throat and reveals herself to be Ventress. What the hell is she doing on Coruscant of all planets? Ventress says she didn't believe the Senate would put bounty on her at first, but now she does, she says this while the camera pans to show three huge "WANTED" posters of Ahsoka on nearby screens. That got a chuckle out of me. Ahsoka accuses Ventress of framing her, which makes a lot of sense from her perspective, otherwise her presence here is just one hell of a coincidence. Which I guess it is? Ventress explains she's a bounty hunter now, as she confiscates Tano's lightsaber, and she's just earned a big paycheck. As Ventress walks her to wherever she can collect (with her mask back on), Ahsoka points out the obvious: as a Sith and a Separatist war criminal, Ventress is just as guaranteed as she is to be arrested when they get where they're going. Ventress say she's not handing her over to the Jedi but to a bondsman. Why would that change anything? Also, looking that word up is how I learned that bounty hunters are apparently still a thing in the U.S.? Wild. They reach one of the big holes that allow ships to move from level to level as Ahsoka admits that the other Jedi no longer recognize her as one of their own and she reluctantly asks for her help. Ventress opens up her mask again and asks in what star system she would ever help her. Wouldn't that expression be in what "galaxy" or "universe" in this setting? Ahsoka says she knows Dooku betrayed her and tried to have her killed. How does she know that? Did Ventress tell Obi-Wan after they escaped the Oppress brothers together at the end of season 4? And while we're at it, how did these two part ways, what happened there? Ahsoka floats the idea that the Jedi traitor might be Dooku's new apprentice. sHe says the two of them have a lot in common. (Meh?) In exchange for her help, she promises to speak to the senate and the Council on her behalf and to get her a full pardon. Yeah, and if you pull the other one it plays Duel of the Fates, come on! Still ventress accepts, but warns her she'll turn her in if "the tide flows against you". And that's when Anakin and the clones arrive in their TIE gunships. Anakin spots Ahsoka from a distance and jumps on the platform. Ventress dials something on a keyboard on the wall and a ray shield turns on cutting access to and from the platform. I'm sorry, isn't this, like, a public street? Why is this here? Can anybody do that? Ahsoka stops to look back at Anakin and Ventress grabs her to keep running. Since her mask is still up, Skywalker recognizes her. How has she not been arrested so far?

Skywalker orders probes to be released. They look just like the eyes of probe droids (and make the same sound), which is odd since we've already seen full probe droids on this show. Ventress takes Ahsoka to a holobooth in her neighbourhood. The Padawan can't help but comment on how "nice" the place doesn't look, prompting Assajj to tell her not everyone on this planet gets to live in a luxurious Temple. Ahsoka says she'll have to get used to that. True. Ahsoka tinkers with it to avoid her call being traced (Ventress adds that to her list of criminal acts). The padawan calls her friend Barriss, to tell her she's okay for a fugitive. She still can't say where she is, but Offee has a lead: Letta visited an abandoned munition warehouse on level 1315 shortly before the attack. Ahsoka thanks her and Barris tells her to be careful. Unfortunately, a probe spotted her and communicated her location to a group of clones who surrounds the two just as Ventress tells Tano she knows the warehouse and how to get there. The two rogue Jedi refuse to come in quietly, but Ahsoka assures the clones she's not going to hurt them. They refuse to back down. Assajj draws her weapons and start swinging. Ahsoka fights barehanded, but Ventress only uses her blades to disable the clones' weapons before joinging in the kicking and punching. A dozen unconscious clones later, Ventress points out she hasn't killed any of them. "It's the new me." Uh. They run away while the clone leader calls Plo Koon.

Ventress and Ahsoka arrive at the factory. Ventress says she's done her part, so she gives ahsoka her weapon back and reminds her to speak on her behalf. Seriously, you're done? I can just picture the speech "Look, she was a leader of the rebellion we're still at war with, killed who-knows-how-many soldiers and a few Jedi, but she helped me resist arrest and gave me directions once when I was on the run from the law, so all is forgiven right?" Ahsoka thanks her while pointing out how strange it was for them to be on the same side. Assajj can only says that these are strange times and leaves. As she walks away Ventress notices a horned shadow on a wall and ask Ahsoka what she wants. Turns out to be just one of the little vermin-like animals that seem to be all over lower Coruscant. It's kind of odd that it made a shadow this tall, though. Is there a projector lying on the ground? This distracts ventress long enough to get a traschcan flung into her face at full force. Her assaillant finishes her out with a metal pipe (why not kill her?) before stealing her lightsabers and her mask.

Ahsoka is searching the factory, not really knowing what to look for, when the traitor, wearing Ventress's mask and wielding her lightsabers attacks her. Ahsoka accuses Ventress of having a change of heart. Yes, Ahsoka, Ventress changed her mind out of the blue (after beating up cops with you), changed her clothes, lost twenty centimeters of height (seriously, Ventress has about a head on Ahsoka when the traitor and her are roughly the same height) and is uncharacteristically silent while attacking you with a mask she kept removing the entire time you've seen her. If Ahsoka doesn't work out that wasn't Ventress by the next episode, I'll be seriously disappointed in her intelligence. The traitor... Lokk I'll just call her Barris Offee, okay? You all know it's her, and even if I hadn't been spoiled, I would have worked out by now that the only Jedi with any focus this arc except for Skywalker and Tano, who is also the only one who knew where Ahsoka was headed, is female with the right build and happens to wear a similar outfit as the traitor's is the traitor.So, Barris throws a metal ... rectangle? (No idea what it's supposed to be) at Ahsoka and climbs up, with Ahsoak in tow. She asks why "Ventress" would bring her here with no answer but another assault. Offee climbs up another level and trhwos a pile of empty metal barrels at Tano. Ahsoka avoid them and gets back to Barris, who just gives way as they fight. barris slices open some pipes that start leaking steam and throws some full barrels at it. They explode, forcing ashoka to take cover and being noticed by police from outside. The police warn anakin of the suspicious activity so he heads there with rex and some more clones. In the factory, Barris grabs Ahsoka and starts literally throwing her around until she loses her weapon. A dazed Ahsoka tries to keep fighting with kicks and punches, to no avail. Barris knocks her, through the floor, two levels down, into a room full of crates. Marked as containing nanodroids. Ahsoka turns around and sees the clone she beat up previously. She gets a "let me explain" in before being stunned. Anakin and Plo Koon arrive and the clones inform them that the nanodroids match the type used to blow up the Temple.

The two Jedi inform Yoda of her capture "without incident" as they head to the Temple. Plo tells him of the nanodroids they found. Anakin doesn't understand how Ventress fits into this. Me neither, to be frank. For Skywalker, there's more going on that they know. Windu and Plo Koon wonder if that "more" is due to Ahsoka or against her. In any case Windu hopes to keep their stray Padawan in the Temple. End of the episode.

Spoiler: My thoughts

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Why were Rex and Plo Koon here? And what was Tarkin doing all this time? Isn't he in charge of the investigation? Capturing Tano should be his job.

No, but seriously what is Ventress doing there? Corsucant has the highest concentration of Jedi in the galaxy bar none, plus her master's master, plus a ****ton of clones. It should be first place, even above Serenno, on her list of places not to be. Since both sides of the war want her dead, I'd expect her to operate only in Hutt space or something. Th elast time we saw her, she was sharing an autonous cockpit with Obi-Wan, how di she get from A to B? She hasn't been mentioned once this season, is there an episode missing or what?

It makes some sense for Barris to target Ahsoka fro the frame-up if she'd guessed in advance that she would contact her for help so that she could lead her to the factory. But the question remains of why she's doing any of this. Maybe Ahsoka is on the money and she is trying to prove her worsth to Dooku, like Krell before her? But how did she fall in the first place? And how did she get inside the detention facility unnoticed by both security (assuming Tarkin isn't in on it) and Ahsoka's sensing power (which I wouldn't bring up if the show hadn't, mind).

Next time: the finale, The Wrong Jedi, will hopefully answer my questions.

[Sapphire Guard]

That's the thing about these detectivy arcs, all commentary is potentially a spoiler, so we're all very quiet.

[Peelee]

That's the thing about these detectivy arcs, all commentary is potentially a spoiler, so we're all very quiet.

Which is a shame, because

Spoiler

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The butler always did it.

[Mechalich]

No, but seriously what is Ventress doing there? Corsucant has the highest concentration of Jedi in the galaxy bar none, plus her master's master, plus a ****ton of clones. It should be first place, even above Serenno, on her list of places not to be. Since both sides of the war want her dead, I'd expect her to operate only in Hutt space or something.

The key distinction here is that Ventress is operating in the Underworld, and not only that but a long way down. Officially the 'surface' of Coruscant, the part that's open to the sky, is Level 5127. This means that, operating on level 1312 is almost 4000 levels down. This is, honestly, insane, and the scale of this is difficult to capture. But, because I'm that kind of fan, I once made a fanon layout of the entire underworld, a spreadsheet with, yes 5127 rows. The underworld is for all practical purposes another planet or even another section of the whole galaxy. Wulff Yularen, head of the ISB, had this to say about it: "You must be joking. Go down two thousand levels and you'll find all the unrest you could ever want. Go down four thousand and you might as well be in Wild Space." (this quote is from the Thrawn novel).

So it's quite plausible for a fugitive to hide out in the Underworld very effectively, especially if the local underworld police (the guys in masks, who are organizationally separate from the Galactic City police with their blue droids) have been bribed accordingly. In fact, the only way the encounter between Ahsoka and Ventress possibly happens at all is because the Force wants it to happen and manipulates probabilities.

[Peelee]

This is, honestly, insane, and the scale of this is difficult to capture.

This is the best summation of the scale of anything and everything in the Star Wars universe.

[Sapphire Guard]

Still insane for her to go anywhere near Ahsoka though.

[Fyraltari]

The key distinction here is that Ventress is operating in the Underworld, and not only that but a long way down. Officially the 'surface' of Coruscant, the part that's open to the sky, is Level 5127. This means that, operating on level 1312 is almost 4000 levels down. This is, honestly, insane, and the scale of this is difficult to capture. But, because I'm that kind of fan, I once made a fanon layout of the entire underworld, a spreadsheet with, yes 5127 rows.

First, source? Second, are you alright?
Also, how the hall has this not collapsed on itself, yet?

The underworld is for all practical purposes another planet or even another section of the whole galaxy. Wulff Yularen, head of the ISB, had this to say about it: "You must be joking. Go down two thousand levels and you'll find all the unrest you could ever want. Go down four thousand and you might as well be in Wild Space." (this quote is from the Thrawn novel).

Okay, but the fact that they sent two Jedi and like a dozen clones after her makes me suspect, the show doesn't care to portray this this scale. And even so, it would still make more sens for ventress to be hiding in Nar Shaada or Corellia or something.

Also, Sidious could feel her from a cross the Galaxy and was worried about her becoming a pretender to the title of Sith. Feels odd he would not sense her so close and go murder her.

Still insane for her to go anywhere near Ahsoka though.

no, but seriously, how did she get there? Last we saw her she was with Obi-Wan, did he just let her go away? Did he try to bring her in when they arrived on Coruscant and she escaped on foot, now stuck on the planet? What is going on?

Anyhow:

Season 5, Episode 20: The Wrong Jedi

Spoiler: Recap

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Tarkin is on the holophone with the Jedi Council. The Senate wants to indite Ahsoka for treason. Yoda wants a trial in accordance to Jedi tradition. Tarkin counters that the Senate fears an internal trial would appear biased and therefore requires for Ahsoka to be expelled from The Order so that she can entrusted to an "impartial" military tribunal.

Spoiler: Ah, yes the Senate

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The Council (not Ahsoka?) would be free to chose whoever they want to represent Ahsoka, but Tarkin recommands an outsider. That's actually good advice when it comes to the Jedi Order's public relations. Windu gives a non-commital answer and politely dismisses the admiral. Kenobi wants to stand with Ahsoka, but the other masters aren't that quick. One of them even says that being found with similar nanodroids used during the attack is enough to convict her (is it really?). Windu points out that doing what Obi-Wan suggests would be seen as opposing the Senate. Yoda decides to have Ahsoka and Anakin brought to the chamber of Judgement so that they can come to a decision.

In the Antechamber of Judgement, Anakin and ahsoka wait under the surveillance of five Jedi sentinels. Well, Ahsoka waits, Anakin is pacing nervously back and forth. Neither of them knowing what to do. A bell rings and they take place in the center of the room which lifts them (and two sentinels) in the chamber above. The pltform under Ahsoka's feet floats further up, bringing her in the middle of the assembled Masters of the Council, all looking down on her from individual balconies. Very ceremonial and clearly designed to make the accused feel small and powerless. She pleads non guilty to the charges levied against her and simply claims that someone she doesn't know used the Force against Letta. Plo Koon asks her to explain her association with Ventress. She explains they had a mutual understanding. Windu asks if Ventress helped her acquire the nanodroids. She says she was deceived, like they are. Windu asks who is deceiving them. Tano? Ventress? Someone else? She thinks it's Ventress (urgh, disappojnting), but she isn't sure. Yoda says these things are dangerously clouded by the dark Side. What is that even supposed to mean!? Anakin loses patience and accuses them of having already made their mind and just going through the motions. Yoda confirms they have reached a decision, but not an unanimous one. Windu states that the Council believes the Padawan-learner Ahsoka Tano has committed treason against the Republic and is therefore expelled from the Order, stripped of her status as a Padawan as well as all related ranks and privileges in the Grand Army and be turned over to the Republic courts, effective immediately. Anakin yells they can't do that and attempts to rush to her side but is stopped by the sentinels switching on their doubled-bladed golden lightsabers. One of them rips the beads serving as Ahsoka's substitute padawan ponytail.

Cut to the prison and Ahsoka's new (old?) cell. Anakin walks in, along with Padmé who agreed to represent her. No disrespect, but if I were in Ahsoka's shoes, I'd probably want a professional attorney, instead. Ahsoka insists she's almost certain Ventress is behind this. She asks if any of the clones see the two of them fight in the warehouse. No, they haven't seen anything. Which is pretty lucky for Barris, I gotta say. Anakin points out that Ahsoka said ventress left before she went into the warehouse (wait, wasn't it an abandoned factory, last episode?*). Ahsoka confirms that she did, but then she came back, she knows it was her because she recognized her red lightsabers. Yes, as everyone know, Ventress is the only one in the galaxy to use red lightsabers. Anakin decides that finding Ventress is the best way he can help Ahsoka right now and leaves. Padmé wants to start working on Ahsoka's defense, but she doesn't feel very optimistic about it. She thought she was truly part of the Order but everyone except Skywalker just turned their backs on her, so she doesn't really hop for a better treatment from the Senate.

In the underworld, ventress is just walking down the street when she spots Anakin looking at her from a bridge above. Well, that was fast. He accuses her of being behind everything, she tries to run away. He corners her. She puts up a valiant fight, but he's got a lightsaber and her best weapon are... two random metal rods she Force-pulled, it's not even close to a fair fight. he Force-chokes her (no Imperial march, this time). And demands she tells him what happened. She explains she was just after the bounty (with a side-order of revenge) but realized that the two of them have a lot in common: namely being abandoned by their respective masters. Anakin... doesn't take it well, but not in the angry sense, more like "shock of sudden realization." which.. okay? He hasn't abandoned her, though.

Ahsoka is brought to a courtroom (talk about expeditive justice!) inside the prison, that looks like one of the death Star's bottomless pits (but with a bottom) and huge screens showing the Republic's flag. Easily the most Imperial room so far. She walks onto a platform in the middle, in cuffs and watched over by four troopers. In attendance are a few bigwigs, including Mon Mothma, Bail Organa, Chuchi andthe Jedi Council. Padmé, for the defense and Tarkin, for the prosecution walk onto their respective platforms. Presiding is Palpatine himself, flanked by a pair of Royal Guards. Not senate guards, straight up Royal Guards in their full red-robed decorative glory. His chair is also just his throne from RotJ. In-universe does that mean that he just liked the chair of Court's president that much or do you think he had it changed to his favourite design? Tarkin makes his opening statement: he intends to prove definitely that she was the mastermind behind the Jedi Temple's terrorist attack and that she eliminated her accomplices one by one after that (I mean, there's only been one death since). For these crimes, he demands the death penalty. Bet she regrets saving this *******'s life, now.

Back in the mean streets of Coruscant, Assajj tells Anakin of how she was ambushed. She doesn't think anyone but a Jedi could have sneaked on her like that, she also tells him that sicne her lightsabers were stolen, he'll have an easy way to confirm the guilt of whoever he's looking for. This doesn't help him much, since as far as he knows, Ventress is the only Ahsoka even talked to since she fled. Assajj corrects him: she saw Ahsoka call the Temple and talked to a "Barriss", in fact that was this "Barriss" that told them to go to the warehouse. Anakin tells her that if she lied to him, he'll kill her. He leaves as she muses on people making promises. So, you're not bringing her in, Anakin? Even if she's telling the truth, she's got a lot to answer for. Also, about that full pardon? Also, also, Did the question of how Ahsoka knew to go there never come up?

In the courtroom, Padmé points out that Letta called Ahsoka because she was afraid for her life. Why would Ahsoka kill her in a way that would implicate her so? Not the best argument, as one could easily suggest Ahsoka panicked and wanted Letta killed before she had any chance to talk. Also, Padmé adresses the "members of the court" who are a collection of aliens in civilian clothing. Isn't this supposed to be a military tribunal, what's going on? Tarkin sarcastically aplauds and asks why an allegedly innocent Ahsoka would be seen conspiring with a Separatist terrorist like Ventress. Ahsoka says she was set-up and that her Master will prove that when he's found the real murderer. Tarkin replies Anakin should maybe look in her direction.

In the Temple, Anakin enters Barriss's cell after a moment of hesitation. She's in. Not watching ahsoka's trial, but meditating in front of a small (religious, I assume) statue. He walks in, casually Force-pulling her lightsaber and asks her what she and Ahsoka wer talking about. The Padawan simply says she was trying to help her friend and that she hopes she's not in trouble. He says she's not, he just wants to know if anyone else knows about this conversation. She says no, that she thought she might have had a clue, but she couldn't tell her anything. She asks how he knows about this discussion. He says Ventress told him. She replies Ashoka says Ventress is the real culprit. Anakin says he doesn't believe that anymore. Barriss asks who he suspects, then, surely not Ahsoka? Indeed he doesn't. He thinks they have both been had. But there's only one way to find out the truth. He switches her lightsaber on and and she Force-pulls two curved red lightsabers out of a vase, parrying his blow. "Funny, those belong to Ventress. You should have gotten rid of them! - I think they suit me." They trade blow and he manages to kick her out of the cell. She runs away, with him in pursuit.

In the courtroom, Palpatine is addressing the audience, saying that Ahsoka might look like innocence made flesh, but they have been fooled by separatist agents before. Is this another scheme to tear the Jedi, and therefore the Republic, apart? He's having fun, isn't he? Skywalker catches up to Offee in one of the temple's main corridor. He accuses her of betraying Ahsoka's trust and she replies that trust is overrated, the only thing the Council believe in is violence. Anakin switches his own lightsaber on to fight her two blades against two blades. He's been fighting left-handed until then! She attempts to run away again, but a pair of sentinels appear at each end of the corridor demanding they cease hostilities. Instead, she jumps through a window, followed by Anakin while the sentinels... don't, for some reason. They fight on the roof of an outbuilding of the Temple until Barriss kicks Anakin down to the courtyard. Where Master Sinube is instructing a gaggle of young ones in the use of the lightsaber. Among the students are the kids from the Gathering, shouldn't they have Masters of their own, now? I thought the whole point was that they had graduated to the rank of Padawan? Also, last we saw it I called Sinube's lightsaber "lightblue, almost white", but it is clearly white here. Interesting. Offee lands on Anakin and manages to destroy her old blue lightsaber. This nice, if slightly heavy handed bit of symbolism isn't given any attention, I just know it's hers because obviously Anakin's lightsber survives this. They keep fighting while Sinube and the children do nothing. Also a sentinel cautiously walks down the stairs towards them (did they just take the long way around?). Anakin grabs Barriss's wrist and forces her to drop one saber. As the sentinels close in and he starts just beating her blade she fights more and more desparetely. Finally she lunges at him and he just Force-catches her mid-jump and slams her hard into the courtyard's tree.

In the courtroom, the head juror... judge? says that the members of the courts have reached a decision and texts it to the Supreme Chancellor. He reads it but only gets to "an overwhelming count of..." before Anakin and four sentinels barge in, escorting Barriss. He has evidence (what evidence?) and a confession from the real criminal. At the news, Ahsoka is crestfallen ("Barris? ... Is that true?"), the Jedi Masters are shocked and Tarkin is vaguely crossed, I think? Barris admits to her actions and justifies them by saying she's realized what "many in the Republic have already realized" : that the Jedi are responsible for the war, that they have lost their way and have become villains and that all of "us" should be put on trial for having fallen from the Light they held so dear and have turned into an army fighting for the Dark side (when she says that last bit the camera is on Palpatine who probably has to call on all of political training to maintain his poker face right now). She concludes that the republic is failing, it's only a matter of time. Palpatine has her taken away. She leaves, not having looked at Ahsoka once in the entire scene. Given how fas tthe law works around these parts, I can only assume her on trial is scheduled for tomorrow and she'll be executed the day after that.** Anakin looks at ahsoka with what I'd call a mix of pride and relief on his face. She looks at him with gratitude before looking down sadly.

Back in the Council's chamber, Anakin apologizes for "everything" to Ashoka. Dude, you're the last one who should apologize, here. Plo Koon offers the Council's "most humble apologies", despite the "Little 'Soka" at the end it doesn't seem as heartfelt as Anakin's apologies. Still they admit they were wrong, and compliment the strength and resilience she showed. Mundi (who was one who read her sentence in the Order's own trial) calls it the true sign of a Jedi Knight. Windu says that they now see that this was "actually" her Great Trial, they understand that the force works in mysterious ways, and because of this she has become a greater Jedi than she was before. Ahsoka looks borderline contemptuous. At any rate Yoda welcomes her back into the Order. Anakin holds her old Padawan-beads to her. She hesitates for a moment and then close his hand on them. She apologizes to him, but she's not coming back. She walks away while Anakin looks in shock, Obi-Wan is sad surprise and Mace in disapproval. I can't read Plo. Anakin runs after her. Obi-Wan would follow him but Plo grabs his shoulder and he stops. nice touch. Yoda is big sad.

Skywalker catches up to his former apprentice on the steps leading out of the Temple. yelling she he needs to talk to her. I know it's more dramatic and all, but how did she get such a lead on him. Did he have to wait for an elevator? He asks her why she's doing this. She says she can't trust herself when the Council didn't trust her (Huh? Okay.) He says he stood by her, and she thansk him for believing in her, but this isn't about him. He says the Order is her life, she can't just throw it away? Sounds like somebody's projecting. She says that she may be doing a mistake, but she has to sort "this"
by herself, without the Council... and without him. He says he understands wanting to walk away more than she realizes. She says she knows. Then she slowly walks away, disappearing from view, not having looked back once. End of the episode.

*I checked it was " a warehouse where they used to build munitions." Odd.
**Seriously, how are Poggle and Tambor still alive?

Spoiler: My thoughts

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Well, that episode was a banger. I especially like the work on the facial expressions showing a very wide range of emotions. Helped of course by the absolutely stellar music.

I don't think Ventress's getting that full pardon, guys. Or her lightsabers back for that matter. And, I just realized that Ahsoka is probably going to crash at her place for a while, because she litreally has no friends outside of the Order, the Senate or the army (well, I guess there's Lux, but I don't know if she has nay money for a flight off-world). Does the Jedi Order offer severance pay when you quit? She's probably going to have to work as a mechanic to make ends meet for while, isn't she?

I'm a bit puzzled about Sinube's white lightsber. Apprently Filoni stated once that Ahsoka's white blades in Rebels represented her non-affiliation with any Order. Was he already thinking along these lines when designing this character? Or did they just think it would be cool for a wise mentor-type?

So, it seems like Tarkin wasn't in on the plot in the end. Makes me wonder why he was going at it so hard to get Ahsoka convicted. My best guess is that he figured that weakening the Jedi Order's standing within the Republic serves his authoritarian political agenda bast and he doesn't care who's being sent to the chopping block. Makes it odd that he would advise them against having aJedi serve as defense in the trial then. Perhaps Palpatine had him say that in a bid to isolate Ahsoka, and therefore emotionally hurt Anakin? Or perhaps he guessed Padmé would serve as defense, lose and therefore weaken her own standing? She's been a thorn in his side for a while now.

I like that at the very end, Obi-Wan, who was very close to Ahsoka, wanted to go after her too, but Plo Koon, also her friend, stopped him, knowing that everything he could say would just make it worse.

None of this is going to do Anakin's abandonment issues any good. I don't think he realizes it himself, but he feels like Ahsoka is casting him aside along with the Order. And of course, her decision to leave makes him his own decision to remain despite his secret marriage. And of course, he already felt betrayed by the Council over the whole "Rako Hardeen" fiasco, so now... Also, I like his moment of hesitation before confronting Barriss. He's laready worked out that she must be the traitor, but he doesn't want to confirm his suspicions and he's hoping beyond hope there would be another explanation. That another Jedi he doesn't personally knows told her about the warehouse. Also, of course ahsoka knew about him and Padmé. They're really bad at hiding it. Obi-Wan already knows too. And I bet so does Bail.

I appreciate that they took some time to remind us of Ahsoka and Barris's friendship two episodes ago. Still wish we had gotten to see it more over the seasons. To make the betrayal sting, you know? Let's talk about her plan. It makes no sense. Her motives are indeed the same as Letta said, but then why just bomb the hangar without releasing a statement explaing the motivation behind the attack? An explosion alone is meaningless! Did she place Bomani's hand where it would be found or was the explosion that clean? She told Letta to call Ahsoka in case of problems. Was she just covering her ass or was framing Ahsoka always part of the plan? How did she sneak into the base? How did Ahsoka not sense her? When she was her best friend? Did she learn how to disguise her presence in the force the way Sidious does? How? On her own? She lead Ahsoka to the warehouse, very well, but what was her plan if Ventress hadn't shown up? Fight Ahsoka barefaced? Or did she have another mask laying around? I'm willing to give her points for improvisation for this one, but how lucky was she that Ahsoka completely failed to mention to anyone that Barris was the one who told her to go there? Also I find it interesting that she effortlessly dominated her fight against Ahsoka, but struggled to keep up with an enraged Anakin. I don't know if that speaks more to the difference in skills between a young Ashoka and a soon-to-be Vader or Barris's fighting style being based on evading blows and dancing around her opponent.

As to her fall proper, there's a lot to discuss. Like I said in the recap, Anakin fighting her with her own blue lightsaber and her destroying it feels like it was deliberate. It's not emphasized in the episode, but there's an awkward cut between the moment she lands on Anakin and the one he stands up with only one weapon. I suspect there was a shot shwoing her breaking it that was removed for pacing reasons. Besides that, her saying that Ventress's red sabers suit her feels like she is admitting to having fallen to the dark Side, but her behaviour and don't really scream "darksider" to me. There's no contempt, no bloodlust, no thirst for power, no gloating. She includes herself when saying the Order should be put on trial and she avoids looking at Ahsoka during her trial. It's almost like, she's ashamed? (also, it'd explain how no-one in the Order felt the Darkness within her, but honestly they never do. That's a problem with basically every fallen Jedi backstory, from Vader to Dooku to Krell. Maybe they don't notice it if the change is gradual enough? A form of change blindness, maybe?) Can someone be a traior and a cold-blooded murderer while still on the Light Side? I doubt that matters to her victims and she'll be dead very soon, anyway. I'm a bit disappointed that her own master, Luminara Unduli was nowhere to be seen during all of this. There wasn't much room but, I feel she could have been there at the end, even if she didn't have any lines.

Her spiel against the Order is mostly correct, even if her "cure" is worse than the disease. They did start the war, they have become an army serving the Dark Side (unwittingly, they do the bidding of a Sith Lord) despite themselves and the Republic is on its last legs. As for losing their way (besides going to war), well, Jedi keep turning to the Dark Side without them noticing until it is too late and now they were fooled into thinking an innocent one had done so. Can they no longer tell the wheat from the chaff? Those who seat on the Council are supposed to be the height of wisdom, but when Kenobi and Koon, the two who know Ahsoka personally vouch for her innocence, the majority still vote to expel her. Do the Masters no longer trust in each other's wisdom? Or worse yet, do they trust in it but still decided to throw a Padawan to the wolves in order not to antagonize the Senate? A mixture of both? If that is not the Order losing its way, I don't know what is. Their attempt to pass their foolishness later as Ahsoka's Great Trial, and the Force working mysteriously through them is a cowardly refusal to admit to their own folly. How is any of this supposed to have made her a better Jedi? She was tricked through her own hot-headness twice and failed to recognize her true enemy. "Showing strength and resilience" my butt. Recklesness isn't strength and stuborness isn't resilience. It sounds more like offering her knighthood is a way to buy her forgiveness, and I can't fault Ahsoka for being insulted.

And so, Ahsoka Tano leaves the Jedi Order. Her friend, the perfect Padawan, who trusted more than she ever did in the rules of the Order cracked and tried to have her executed. The only one who actually tried to help her was her own Master, who she knows is already flouting the rules of the Order. It's no wonder she left. Not only has the Order, as an institution, wronged her, but she no longer believes in its guiding principles. Something, somewhere, at some point, went horribly wrong. She doesn't know why, but she cannot pretend there is nothing rotten in the Kingdom Danemark. Abd so she leaves the only family she can remember to sail uncertain waters. That's an act of tremendous integrity and bravery. I'd go as far as to say that by refusing to accept The Council's guilt-ridden offer, she shows great strength and resilience and ironically proves herself worthy of the title of Jedi Knight. a Hedge Jedi, if you will. A Jedi Ronin? No, that's too on the nose.

So, that was the last episode of season 5, and for a long while (how long?) the last episode of the show. Honestly, I'm gald for you guys that Ahsoka's story reached a natural, if very open-ended, conclusion (even if I'm sure she appears in season 6 and 7) before the show's cancellation, especially one that answered the question of where she was during RotS, which I'm sure many of you were wondering at the times. Even without the renewal, I feel like this arc makes for a fitting end for this show. Convictions have become muddled, those you looked up to prove themselves fallible, suspicions reins as friends turn to foe and a foe proves more of a friend to you, every choice feels like a mistake, the aftertaste of ash in your mouth foreshadows the fires that are to come, The Republic is cold and darka nd violent, and above it all, a monster sits on the throne with blood-red ghosts at his sides grinning while the world stops making sense. Isn't that what the fall of a nation feels like?

Next up: My thoughts on the season as whole. Wanted to include it there, but this got away from me and I am tired. Maybe i'll edit it in, maybe i'LL make a new post, maybe in this thread, maybe in the next. I don't know. Next episode is listed as Season 6 The Lost Missions Episode 1 the Unkonw, the pesiode after that is just called Conspiracy, Idon't know if that's part of the lost missions or what.

[Keltest]

As far as it goes, Tarkin is just a jerk. He isnt actually interested in justice or whatever, he just wants to exercise power.

[Mechalich]

First, source? Second, are you alright?
Also, how the hall has this not collapsed on itself, yet?

The link to the source is in the passage you quoted. As to how it stays up, presumably super-strong materials. It is not mentioned, in any source, how thick a 'level' happens to be. I assumed, mostly for convenience, that it was a relatively modest 10 meters, but that still means the built-up layer of the planet is over 50 kilometers thick. It is at least theoretically possible, using carbon nanotube derived materials, to build structures of this size. The bigger problem to paving over a planet in this way is actually heat dissipation.

Okay, but the fact that they sent two Jedi and like a dozen clones after her makes me suspect, the show doesn't care to portray this this scale. And even so, it would still make more sens for ventress to be hiding in Nar Shaada or Corellia or something.

Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale, and Star Wars tends to be especially bad this. However, in this case the Jedi Order was presumably expecting that either civilian informants or one of the millions of underworld police officers would locate Ahsoka and then they'd pick up the trail from there - which is actually what happens in the episode.

One of them even says that being found with similar nanodroids used during the attack is enough to convict her (is it really?).

Assuming nanodroids are illegal - which they probably are - being found with them might not be enough to convict of treason or sedition, but it might be enough to convict of a weapons charge. There are any number of real-world items who possession is illegal in various jurisdictions without a pile of permits. That would be an extremely ticky-tack charge to hang on Ahsoka, but in the current climate represents a very real threat that can be used against the Order.

I appreciate that they took some time to remind us of Ahsoka and Barris's friendship two episodes ago. Still wish we had gotten to see it more over the seasons.

I suspect that, had matters proceeded as originally intended, that they would have done an Ahsoka+Bariss arc to air shortly before this arc aired, which originally probably would have been done in Season Six and that Season Five would have instead ended with a different arc (probably involving Ventress in some of the material that later became Dark Disciple). This was never intended to be the end of the show, as a huge portion of Season Six already existed at least semi-finished prior to the cancellation. That's why those episodes got dumped to Netflix in the first place, as a means to recoup some of the money already spent making them rather than leave them in the vault.

As far as it goes, Tarkin is just a jerk. He isnt actually interested in justice or whatever, he just wants to exercise power.

I wouldn't quite say that. It's more that Tarkin is a fascist who actually believes fascism is the right path rather than one using it as a cloak for personal ambition like Palpatine is doing. Tarkin genuinely believes that the galaxy exists in chaos and that the only way to bring about order, which he perceives as essential, is through absolute domination by the elite. He also believes that elite should be military, human, and male, in that order. In a very real sense, the Empire is actually the product of Tarkin and like minded-individuals rather than Palpatine. Palpatine wants to rule the galaxy, but he doesn't see that rulership as anything other than a vehicle for his power, he does not possess adherence to any ideology. Tarkin does, a hideous and morally bankrupt ideology, but one that exists and one that he remains true to up until his death. This is actually best displayed in Tarkin's refusal to leave the Death Star during ANH. Palpatine absolutely would have evacuated. And, notably, Palpatine eventually abandons the Imperial project (in both continuities, albeit in a slightly different way each time) in order to pursue his personal divine ascension.

As a result, during the Clone Wars, Palpatine and Tarkin both want to crush the Jedi, but while Palpatine wants to do so because they are a threat to his position and his personal survival, Tarkin wants to do so because he believes that the existence of the Jedi is bad for the galaxy and that in order for there to be progress they must be removed.

[McNum]

The series initially ending on Ahsoka walking away made some sense at the time, as the movie that piloted this was where she was first introduced. Her journey from annoying brat to quite possibly one of the few Jedi who remembered what being a Jedi was supposed to be about, and therefore losing her place in the rapidly deteriorating Jedi Order is a solid series-long character arc. It also served Anakin's character well, sowing distrust in the Jedi and making him more vulnerable to Palpatine's manipulations. If the show had ended here and stayed over, it would have had a fine reputation as a self-contained story.

But this ending didn't stick quite as much as we initially thought, so welcome to the Lost Episodes! There are a few episodes in this season I'm looking forward to reading about. One thing that's new going forward is that stand-alone episodes are basically a thing of the past and everything is now at least two-parters and unafraid to take weird concepts and just roll with it.

25 episodes to go. Seasons 6 and 7 are basically half-seasons.

[runeghost]

The opposite is true. The Jedi have a highly focused education that is extremely esoteric. They are monks, and they practice a monastic regimen, one that happens to include a highly martial component. Yes we see characters with other skills but those characters are mostly elite exceptions. TCW has an unfortunate tendency to focus on the most elite 0.1% of all Jedi, not anyone average. Most Jedi don't fly their own ships, they have someone else to fly them around, whether its a member of the service corps, Judicial Officers (like the guys who fly Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan to Naboo in TPM) or just piloting droids.

Doing a thread re-read and this comment jumped out at me - I couldn't let it go by without a link to the long-running screencap Star Wars webcomic, Darths & Droids, and its musings upon Jedi and character classes:

[Sapphire Guard]

This is an interesting arc, because it manages to be very entertaining while making absolutely no sense.

How did Bariss pull off all this crazy stuff? No idea.
None of the legal procedures make any sense.
How did no one sense Anakin drawing on the Dark Side in the middle of the Jedi temple?

Strictly speaking, expelling her to face trial was the correct thing to do, bad things happen when religious orders protect their members from prosecution.

The actual process was nonsense, but a realistic one would take like 15 hours of screentime.

The Jedi Council suffer from 'not knowing that the accused is a main character', Ahsoka herself was all for throwing away the key when Letta was the accused.

Is there a word for something being very entertaining despite horrible writing?

[Mechalich]

Doing a thread re-read and this comment jumped out at me - I couldn't let it go by without a link to the long-running screencap Star Wars webcomic, Darths & Droids, and its musings upon Jedi and character classes:

I didn't mean monks in the D&D sense. Star Wars draws extremely heavily on a popularized, and rather fantastical conception of East Asian monastic aesthetics, especially that of the Shaolin Temple. The 2011 Chinese film Shaolin in which a disgraced general practices 'martial zen' and achieves enlightenment by going through what is, for all intents and purposes exactly the same training as a Jedi would minus the lightsabers is a very good example of this influence (it's also a movie in which Jackie Chan fights people with the power of Chef Style, so you know, worth a look).

Is there a word for something being very entertaining despite horrible writing?

This is probably an application of Bellisario's Maxim. The needs of the medium, the production budget, and the target audience means that this story has to be massively accelerated and massively simplified, and many of the details don't make sense if you think about them much or even at all. It can absolutely be seen, from the episodes, how the novel-length version of this story would unfold and how various plot holes could be either closed or explained away.

[Grim Portent]

None of the legal procedures make any sense.

To be fair, in the context of a corrupt kangaroo court they make sense. The whole trial is a sham anyway, the decision is foregone and made for political purposes, and is overseen by members of the executive and legislature rather than judiciary, it just needs to look fine for a public audience who are not themselves familiar with how a good trial would go. If Bariss hadn't been made to confess before the court in such a ridiculous manner then her confession would probably have been swept under the rug and Ahsoka executed regardless.

Think of it as a propoganda piece designed to create good headlines for Palpatine.

'CHANCELLOR DEALS WITH JEDI TREACHERY'

'JEDI SABOTAGES WAR EFFORT'

'JEDI: CIS SYMPATHISERS?'

'PALPATINE: FIRM BUT FAIR'

'PAPA PALPATINE PUTS PUNKS IN THEIR PLACE'

That sort of thing.