LaZodiac's Super Turbo Championship Edition Random Banter Thread #242

**LaZodiac** · 2023-01-24, 08:19 AM (ISO 8601)

God, it's been awhile since the very first time I did one of these. Looking at the long long LONG list of RB threads and getting nostalgic, for good or ill.

Regardless, welcome to the next one! Choose your fighter!

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Spoiler: Histography

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**Peelee** · 2023-01-24, 08:24 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by BisectedBrioche

I need to play more spellcasters in general.

One of my challenges is to play a rogue in every non-rogue class without taking a level in rogue

I don't think I ever thought about it in these terms but that's pretty much how I like to run my sorcs. I highly value mobility, and take pretty much every Teleportation spell there is. My characters tend to work out pretty fantastically, too, so it's a good strategy.

**LaZodiac** · 2023-01-24, 08:36 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard

Cleric fun mostly depends on how much you get forced into the healbot role. But yeah, they can be fun. Also I probably need a name for my priestess if we're going to do (potential) character discussions, so let's go with Helena.

I came up with the original idea like eight years ago, but just haven't had the chance to play her. It all stemmed from seeing this idea of 'death priests are gloomy and don't heal people' and didn't think itself right if the god is supposed to be an arbiter of the dead (which disappointingly few D&D death deities are). She slso presides over funerals, which requires a lot of cake, and could do weddings if anybody actually asked.

Then occasionally her order is asked to rebury the undead. So she has a great big thwacking stick and wears leather armour underneath her robes.

I've found the best way to avoid being just a heal-bot is to recognize that a dead enemy means the party gets healed by all the damage they didn't do.

That's pretty excellent!

Maria started with a very fun mental image: 4E DND has the ritual Gentle Repose, that lets you designate a corpse or certain area of flesh to not rot. The base adventure included Ye Olde Bring Me Kobold Heads For Money... so I had the mental image of an adorable nun going out with a massive axe to collect a sack full of heads, using Gentle Repose to keep them in tact, so she can get her appropriate sum of money.

This, beyond all else, was the starting thought for Maria Trobelle as a character. She grew from there, and eventually we get this; Maria Trobelle used to be a criminal known as Mary 'Trouble' Marygold, a burglar and scamartist. She infiltrated a local cult of Tiamat with the express purpose of robbing them, and found she really vibed with the religion (most of it anyway). She then proceeded to steal all their gold and run off, but taking faith with her along with the gold.

Her girlfriend, who is a paladin of the city she lived, who had long time spent trying to make her go legit, did not trust the fact that she was palling around with people like that, and found it to be the final straw. During a sting operation on Maria in the guise of getting back together again, Maria develops divine magics that allow her to escape.

With few options available to her, she turned to the best thing she could think of: she had noticed how adventurers get paid a lotta big money, and she had this scheme planned where she'd dress up as a nun of a generic non-specific god to collect alms for the poor and stuff, leveraging her religious training in the cult. She takes that outfit, runs off, and becomes a hero and perform the greatest scheme of all time- pretending to be a good person to reap the rewards.

Originally Posted by BisectedBrioche

I need to play more spellcasters in general.

One of my challenges is to play a rogue in every non-rogue class without taking a level in rogue, so I was thinking of rolling a Trickery domain Cleric, but that might be too easy (my efforts so far are a druid who has a side business as a smuggler, and an artificer whose inventions are made from artefacts she finds and hacks together).

That is a great thought. It's always fun to like, play a certain class but with the vibes of another. As you can probably guess from the above, Maria is definitely "Cleric who plays like a rogue". I still remember the reaction to me taking out a crowbar to pry a door open, and trying to explain why the Fair Lady, minor god of light, would want her clerics to have one of these. Likewise her lockpicks.

**Keltest** · 2023-01-24, 08:52 AM (ISO 8601)

In my experience, its pretty hard to "accidentally" play a cleric as a heal bot. They get so many more tools than just healing, and an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Also, new thread smell!

**theangelJean** · 2023-01-24, 09:19 AM (ISO 8601)

I've always played healbots ... more towards the "bot" end of it, actually, as I started in a MUD and only went more video-game from there. (Yes, I can grammar. Sometimes.) My one experience with actual tabletop had me frustrated at the low number of spells (we were level 1) and the amount of actual decision-making needed, so ...

Not been on much, been busy spending time with my daughter during the last two weeks of the school holidays, now that I'm recovering enough to actually take her places. Still can't go on theme park rides with her, which was a disappointment last week as we didn't bring anyone who was actually up for accompanying her on her favourite. But we had a nice day out at the beach today. Took it extremely easy. And tomorrow we're going on a picnic at a Wildflower Garden.

**Amidus Drexel** · 2023-01-24, 09:28 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Peelee

I don't think I ever thought about it in these terms but that's pretty much how I like to run my sorcs. I highly value mobility, and take pretty much every Teleportation spell there is. My characters tend to work out pretty fantastically, too, so it's a good strategy.

Mobility is important. I have a hard time playing heavily-armored characters because you just get left behind by mobile enemies so easily. Every PC in the game I'm running has a movement speed of 20ft right now, which has bitten them once or twice already.

Originally Posted by LaZodiac

I've found the best way to avoid being just a heal-bot is to recognize that a dead enemy means the party gets healed by all the damage they didn't do.

I recently introduced the party cleric to summoning, and he very quickly understood the value of a ~30HP summon with its own actions. It's (effectively) healing the party every time it eats a hit, making extra attacks, and providing movement denial and flanking for the rogue (which has come up several times already).

That said, in general I like it when defensive options are powerful too. It's easier to talk about for video game RPGs, but the difference in (effective) mechanical depth between a game where defensive options are strong enough to build around and one where they don't is staggering. Phantasy Star 2's third act is so difficult that it basically requires you to grind 10-15 levels if you don't engage with the defensive techs/gear (or, put another way - those defensive options put you effectively 10 levels ahead of going all offense). Final Fantasy 6 is much the same way - mid-combat resurrection and a few turns of defense+setup let you punch well above your weight class in the latter half of the game. Contrast that with something like FFI or PSIII, which rarely require you do anything but "buy the most expensive gear you can afford, equip it, attack, heal when necessary" for most characters.

In tabletop games, that often comes down to strong area control, action denial, or straight buffs/debuffs. In D&D, grease is a favorite of mine because it does all three quite effectively at level 1, and keeps doing them well into the mid-levels.

**Anonymouswizard** · 2023-01-24, 10:09 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Keltest

In my experience, its pretty hard to "accidentally" play a cleric as a heal bot. They get so many more tools than just healing, and an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Also, new thread smell!

The issue isn't accidentally playing a healbot, it's the view that a Cleric's role is healing being held by a lot of people. Which has never strictly been true (in 2e and earlier they were supposed to heal after bashing skulls, in 3e it was better to craft magic items to do it, and in 5e role depends on domain), but other people want their heals now rather than later.

I mean, I mostly like them for the whole faith and religion thing, but I do understand the mechanics. Helena's domain would be Grace, which means being an offensive caster and emergency healer.

**D&D_Fan** · 2023-01-24, 10:18 AM (ISO 8601)

I never play a healing cleric in any game, I have only ever played damaging cleric. Healing magic is for the followers of [insert deity] alone, If the other characters wanted to be healed, they would worship [insert deity] as well.

**Rater202** · 2023-01-24, 10:48 AM (ISO 8601)

I'm not really one for prepared casters and honestly, I'm not sure how well I could roleplay a character that's supposed to be a priest.

Of course, stepping lightly, I've noted before that in a world like D&D where there is tangible evidence of the existence of Gods and that they reward those who worship them with tangible benefits while in the material world(Like, say, the spells granted to a cleric) then Religion is less a matter of faith and more a business transaction. Might be kind of fun to play a Cleric of a religion that just... No frills, just present the whole thing as what it is.

Maybe a Cleric of a God of Honesty. The God of Honesty isn't gonna present the relationship between Gods and Mortals as anything but what it is.

...Of course, in standard D&D Cosmology that would mean that his or her worshipers would know full well that mortals are ultimately just food for the gods, food for the planes, or raw materials to make new beings and that their ultimate fate is total death of personality and ego regardless with the only difference between the good afterlife and the bad ones is whether you're Kobe beef or veal.

"Per Qiam the Honest, all gods are bastards, himself included, and the afterlife is an inescapable trap that ends with all souls being devoured. However, in exchange for the worship which he needs to sustain himself, he's willing to give us fantastic magical powers that make the wizards look like crap as we also get to be halfway competent fighters and wear heavy armor while preparing any spell our god has to offer us instead of researching them. And his afterlife is the one that's a non-stop drunken orgy, so at least it will be pleasant up until our souls are either devoured or used to make a celestial being with no continuity of ego or personality with ourselves."

**Rynjin** · 2023-01-24, 10:52 AM (ISO 8601)

Playing a religious character isn't hard, it's just a matter of embodying the tenets of your chosen religion.

For example, you're playing Pathfinder, you want to be a Cleric of Cayden Cailean.

Cayden asks you to be:

A good person.
To disregard authority for the great good.
Fight for freedom (for yourself and others) and oppose slavery and tyranny.
Relatively lighthearted and know how to enjoy a good drink.

At a base level. Making a character with those traits is not hard, and is something you might do anyway. Which is the key.

Characters typically choose gods who embody the values they themselves possess, not the other way around.

**Peelee** · 2023-01-24, 10:52 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Rater202

I'm not really one for prepared casters

Seconded.

Originally Posted by Rater202

I'm not sure how well I could roleplay a character that's supposed to be a priest.

~~Rebel without~~ Cleric for a cause!

ETA: Also what Rynjyn said above.

**Rater202** · 2023-01-24, 11:08 AM (ISO 8601)

I didn't say playing a religious character. I said playing a priest, which is to say what a Cleric is supposed to be.

That's a bit of a balancing act. Too preachy and you get annoying to the other players. Not preachy enough and are you even doing your job?

**Bartmanhomer** · 2023-01-24, 11:13 AM (ISO 8601)

I have no issue playing a cleric at all. They're very fun to play with in RPG.

**Rynjin** · 2023-01-24, 11:13 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Rater202

I didn't say playing a religious character. I said playing a priest, which is to say what a Cleric is supposed to be.

That's a bit of a balancing act. Too preachy and you get annoying to the other players. Not preachy enough and are you even doing your job?

Being a priest/Cleric doesn't necessarily involve evangelizing, except insofar as you have...distinct opinions on certain goings-on.

Take your archetypal Cleric of Cayden Cailean again. Your group comes across a party of slavers, "cargo" in tow. Your character says "we need to help them, that's not right". Another character may counter "it's a bad idea, it's too dangerous".

How does your character respond?

According to his own beliefs. AKA, the same way you'd roleplay any other character. The literal only difference is that the character has external affirmation of his own values as opposed to just internal.

You could add an extra religious spin to it ("Cayden rewards those bold of spirit and action, as he was when he was a mere mortal adventurer."), but it's really not necessary.

**Peelee** · 2023-01-24, 11:17 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Rater202

I didn't say playing a religious character. I said playing a priest, which is to say what a Cleric is supposed to be.

That's somewhere between highly debatable and wrong.

**Fyraltari** · 2023-01-24, 11:24 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Rater202

Qiam the Honest

Shout-out to M'aiq the Liar intentional?

Originally Posted by Rater202

I didn't say playing a religious character. I said playing a priest, which is to say what a Cleric is supposed to be.

That's a bit of a balancing act. Too preachy and you get annoying to the other players. Not preachy enough and are you even doing your job?

Priest and preacher are two different things, though.

**Rater202** · 2023-01-24, 11:27 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Fyraltari

Shout-out to M'aiq the Liar intentional?

I was hoping someone would get that.

**Anonymouswizard** · 2023-01-24, 11:30 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Peelee

That's somewhere between highly debatable and wrong.

Yeah, Clerics aren't strictly speaking priests. Even the ones I'll play are more scholarly than evangelical.

**Fyraltari** · 2023-01-24, 11:33 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Rater202

I was hoping someone would get that.

ESO's M'aiq claims his father was called Quai'm and that he was liar, though.

But of course, that's coming from M'aiq, so who knows.

**Peelee** · 2023-01-24, 11:34 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Fyraltari

ESO's M'aiq claims his father was called Quai'm and that he was liar, though.

But of course, that's coming from M'aiq, so who knows.

I've never played but was his father ever depicted as a rail?

**Bartmanhomer** · 2023-01-24, 11:36 AM (ISO 8601)

I have thought about playing an open-minded cleric who worships dragons but that's for another thread. So anyway I thought about writing a Degrassi horror story.

**Rater202** · 2023-01-24, 11:36 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Fyraltari

ESO's M'aiq claims his father was called Quai'm and that he was liar, though.

But of course, that's coming from M'aiq, so who knows.

Qiam the Honest was my second-ever Skyrim character, who I roleplayed as being the exact opposite of M'Aiq whenever possible.

**enderlord99** · 2023-01-24, 11:46 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Rater202

Qiam the Honest was my second-ever Skyrim character, who I roleplayed as being the exact opposite of M'Aiq whenever possible.

I take it Qiam became a werewolf as soon as possible, because M'Aiq is a cat person and werewolf is dog?

**Fyraltari** · 2023-01-24, 11:48 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Peelee

I've never played but was his father ever depicted as a rail?

I don't get it.

Also this is the only mention of his father (except for Skyrim's M'aiq the Liar who claims his father was notorious liar called M'aiq) who probably doesn't exist.

Originally Posted by Rater202

Qiam the Honest was my second-ever Skyrim character, who I roleplayed as being the exact opposite of M'Aiq whenever possible.

A straight-laced, tasked-focused Argonian of few words who only appeared in one game, refuses to leave her hometown and has a group of close friends?

**Peelee** · 2023-01-24, 12:05 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Fyraltari

I don't get it.

Also this is the only mention of his father (except for Skyrim's M'aiq the Liar who claims his father was notorious liar called M'aiq) who probably doesn't exist.

M'aiq/Qiam
M'aiq/Quai'm
Liar/rail

I think I'm funny.

**Form** · 2023-01-24, 12:19 PM (ISO 8601)

My issue with caster characters is that they tend to come with a lot of spell administration. The more powerful that character grows, the more spells they learn and the worse it gets to the point where I don't really remember all the spells they have, much less the details of each one and I have to resort to bookkeeping to keep track of it all. For my Tremere character I actually devised a system to put all the rituals they know into a table that fit on 1 page (now 2), by cutting away as much flavor text as possible, using abbreviations wherever I can and defining a format for where to place information like spell circle and BP cost. Just so I have an overview of everything they can do and when and at which cost at a single glance and don't constantly have to reach for the game books. It was kind of fun to think of a system for that, though.

As for clerics and similar characters: When I played a Catholic priest as one character and an Inquisitor of Abadar as another I played them both as zealots and hammed it up whenever I got the chance. Zealots can be a lot fun to play. They give you an excuse to exaggerate your character. Of course that doesn't just apply to religious characters. I eagerly await the opportunity to play a secular ideologue as a zealot.

**Rynjin** · 2023-01-24, 12:24 PM (ISO 8601)

That's always felt like a weird reason to dislike spellcaster to me. Do you not write down the rest of your character sheet?

**Peelee** · 2023-01-24, 12:26 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Form

My issue with caster characters is that they tend to come with a lot of spell administration. The more powerful that character grows, the more spells they learn and the worse it gets to the point where I don't really remember all the spells they have, much less the details of each one and I have to resort to bookkeeping to keep track of it all.

It sounds like the D&D sorcerer solves that issue quite handily.

**Anonymouswizard** · 2023-01-24, 12:27 PM (ISO 8601)

I'm also not a big fan of D&D spell scaling, I'll happily play a caster who only knows a dozen spells but just gets better at them (and can cast others from a book if really needed). I'd also happily play a martial with a similar number of options, but I also understand the appeal of really simple characters for some people.

There's a reason D&D is right at the bottom of 'games I want to play'.

**Peelee** · 2023-01-24, 12:33 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard

I'm also not a big fan of D&D spell scaling, I'll happily play a caster who only knows a dozen spells but just gets better at them (and can cast others from a book if really needed). I'd also happily play a martial with a similar number of options, but I also understand the appeal of really simple characters for some people.

There's a reason D&D is right at the bottom of 'games I want to play'.

Isn't "getting better at spells" what spell scaling is?

Thread: LaZodiac's Super Turbo Championship Edition Random Banter Thread #242

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