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2024-04-02, 08:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PF1 Altered - Low Level Gestalt] Isekai Adventures
As someone who was considering soulknife // aegis I have so many questions that I can't really start to phrase them.
Like how many astral suits can I get going? Or how many mind blades?
There is also the whole question of improvements. I am very confused.
Some suggestions that might improve things:
1) archetype incompatibility is not a thing you can just trade whatever of an archetype. You don't need to grab the whole thing. And if you traded away whatever you would use to grab it you can then trade trade that too.
2) you get two sets of class features, if you don't trade them away they aren't doing anything for you but this way you can get more archetypes than you normally could.
I don't really know how I would fit the prestige classes thing there.Thanks a lot Gengy for the awesome... just a sec... avatar. :)
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2024-04-02, 10:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PF1 Altered - Low Level Gestalt] Isekai Adventures
Spoiler: Set 1(4d6b3)[11]
(4d6b3)[14]
(4d6b3)[14]
(4d6b3)[13]
(4d6b3)[16]
(4d6b3)[10]
Spoiler: Set 2(4d6b3)[10]
(4d6b3)[10]
(4d6b3)[10]
(4d6b3)[9]
(4d6b3)[7]
(4d6b3)[11]
Spoiler: Set 3(4d6b3)[12]
(4d6b3)[13]
(4d6b3)[13]
(4d6b3)[10]
(4d6b3)[11]
(4d6b3)[9]
Spoiler: Set 4(4d6b3)[10]
(4d6b3)[14]
(4d6b3)[13]
(4d6b3)[14]
(4d6b3)[10]
(4d6b3)[8]
Spoiler: Set 5(4d6b3)[12]
(4d6b3)[13]
(4d6b3)[13]
(4d6b3)[10]
(4d6b3)[15]
(4d6b3)[17]
Spoiler: Set 6(4d6b3)[10]
(4d6b3)[14]
(4d6b3)[13]
(4d6b3)[12]
(4d6b3)[14]
(4d6b3)[16]
Of these, set 5 looks best, and I'll be a human gestalt Bard (Chronicler of Worlds) and Alchemist (Mind Chemist).
17+2+1= 20 int
15 dex
13 con
13 wis
12 str
10 cha
favored class bonus: +6 skillpoints
Backstory: Hailing from Earth, Tom Finklestein is an avid enjoyer of the Isekai genera and a doctoral student in chemical engineering. One day at a comic con, Tom touches a magical comic book and is transported to a faraway fantasy world.
Build: This build is a skillmonkey with a emphasis on gathering knowledge, identifying magic items, and social skills.Last edited by Zhentarim; 2024-04-02 at 10:57 AM.
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2024-04-02, 06:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2006
Re: [PF1 Altered - Low Level Gestalt] Isekai Adventures
Making some assumptions for now so I can work on the build in a slightly more than speculative manner....
1) Major pets (animal companions, Phantoms, Eidolons, et cetera) are considered systems, and are one rfs/level. Familiars areone and done (equivalent to a feat).
2) Most things cost 1rfs whenever they advance (e.g,the Animal domain costs one each atfirst and fourth; the Oracle's Cursecosts at 1st, 5th, 10th, and 15th; Smite Evil costs each time the paladin gets a usefor the day; etcetera)
3) Multiples of the same choice are permitted (e.g., an Oracle with two mysteries, a Druid with two Animal Companions, et cetera) as long as you pay for them.
4) Third party content is OK from d20pfsrd.com.
5) RFS "crossing" from one side of the gestalt to the other is OK (e.g., losing Sneak Attack from the rogue to pay for more Paladin Smites or something)
6) Races without an RP listing are OK.
7) aonsrd.com content is limited to Pathfinder 1 (so no playing Starfinder races)
Please let me know where I go wrong with the above.Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.
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2024-04-02, 06:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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2024-04-02, 06:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2011
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2024-04-02, 09:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2005
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- The Triangle, NC
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2024-04-02, 09:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2022
Re: [PF1 Altered - Low Level Gestalt] Isekai Adventures
yes, but in my example I increased the total RFS applying archetypes before calculating RFS.
Example: Vanilla Fighter 20
11 RFS: Bonus Feats
05 RFS: Bravery
05 RFS: Armor TRaining + Armor Mastery
05 RFS: Weapon TRaining + Weapon MAstery
Total: 26 RFS
Now, if you apply Runesinger archetype you trade Armor Training/Armor Mastery for Runes and Expert Combat talents progression
so you trade 05 RFS for 21 RFS, 16 RFS difference.
The same thing happens if you apply the Myrmidon Archetype, you trade 4 bonus feats for a Martial progression, plus stances, grit and deeds.
so you trade 04 RFS for another 25 RFS.
I you just use the RFS from vanilla, fighter gets shafted.Last edited by Duqueen; 2024-04-02 at 09:37 PM.
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2024-04-03, 04:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2016
Re: [PF1 Altered - Low Level Gestalt] Isekai Adventures
Well, after revieing it you have some reason here, Paladin is paying same for less casting regardless of having more features, so, I will weight Full systems and partial systems costs, Rules will be updated
A. Since the whole purpose is to have a customized builds I would say yes
B. Yes you can buy Revelation Feature (Single Feature) many times
C. A Feature with benefits at different levels will be called Staged Features, and you can pay 1 RSF per stage at given level, I will update rules for this. So yes, Option 2 is correct
Don't know about FFd20, but will review it in the future to get more ideas for this PF mode. Yes anything from d20pfsrd is a fair play
It's 3 RSF + 1 RSF from translating spellcasting into RSF (1 per level)
Yes!
Yes, 3P is allowed
Kitsune is 10 RP according to calculations:
0 RP: Standard ability score modifier
0 RP: Medium size
0 RP: Humanoid
0 RP: Normal base speed
1 RP: Low-light vision
3 RP: Change shape (lesser)
2 RP: Agile = skill bonus
2 RP: Kitsune magic ~ Gnome magic
2 RP: Natural weapons = Bite (increased by one size category)
0 RP: Standard languages
-----------
10 RP
Sadly, I will have to take back what I said about trading before traslating, 70 RSF is somewhat too much and is not the intention for now. You can still buy Expert Practicioner by paying 5 RSF (Armor trainning x4 + Armor Mastery) because Fighter Archetypes allows it, same for Martial Initiator System by paying 4 RFS (4 feats at given level payment).
You can get as many Astral suits/Mindblades you can pay for (Those are Staged Features), you must track and buy stages for each suits and minblades separately.
Please don't hold back, shot as many questions as you have
1. That is a thing already in this customization, you can cherry pick from all archetypes of a given class
2. We will keep the original set of class features for now, I may increase the amount of RSF a class can have in the future
3. For prestige classes, you can also cherry pick features with 2 conditions: First, you must qualify for the said PrC and Second, you must pay 2 RFS for a Feature from a PrC
1. Familiar = Simple Feature, Animal Companion and similar = Staged Feature, Eidolon and similar = System Feature
2. Yes, these are called now Staged Features, you need to pay for each stage
3. Yes
4. Yes
5. Nope, each side has it's own RFS pool, but that's an interesting game mode for the future
6. Yes, but you need to weight the RP cost (as Kitsune sample above), and you can increased it to a 15 RP (maximum allowed), same for all other races under 15 RP
7. Yes, do I need to specify it?
That is correct!
Yes, I will update rules and give a sample
These are Staged Features (abilities with upgrades)
Familiar = Simple Feature, Animal Companion and similar = Staged Feature, Eidolon and similar = System Feature
Please ask your questions. I will put a sample in the rules.Last edited by Talivan; 2024-04-03 at 01:52 PM.
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2024-04-03, 04:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2013
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- New Zealand
Re: [PF1 Altered - Low Level Gestalt] Isekai Adventures
Is Campaign traits OK with you?
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2024-04-03, 04:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2016
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2024-04-03, 06:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2006
Re: [PF1 Altered - Low Level Gestalt] Isekai Adventures
Final Fantasy d20 has a much higher baseline feature set in their classes than does standard Pathfinder. Take a look at the Illusionist, for example: Full casting, there are nine levels where the class gets two non-casting features on the class table... and "two per level" is as low as it goes. Many levels get three features, and a few get four or more. Ignoring the cantrips and limit breaks universal features, they have 20 (casting) + 56 (table entries) = 76 RFS... and I picked that as a random caster example from the class list. Most others work similarly.
Handy.
Which means I could grab two 1st level at-will spell like abilities (or one at 2nd) for four points and get two bonus class skills for the "final" point. Handy.
Are spells tied to alternate systems valid for this? I'm specifically looking at Heroic Fortune with the intent of being a between-combat recharging station for the entire party (the "recall" option from Using Hero Points), allowing everyone to go nova every combat.
My alternate plan for that would be Celestial Healing and possibly Lesser Rejuvenate Eidolon depending on my final class picks.
Note that an Animal Companion gets something at every level except 7th, 11th, and 19th. So it's a very expensive staged feature (a limited version of which can also be had for 2 or 3 feats, with a fourth ).
Also... you're discussing class features as a complete pool on a 20th level build (e.g., casting is 20 RFS). Are we to approach them in that manner, aka, it doesn't matter what level the "traded out" feature comes from or the "traded in" feature shows up at?
Cool, cool, cool...
But feats are valid choices for RFS slots, so in trading out, say, Paladin casting, the Whatever//Paladin would then have twenty feats that are simple generic feats, (potentially applying to the other side: e.g., an [caster]//Paladin picking up metamagic and item creation feats from losing Paladin Casting)?
And... speaking of item creation feats, does pre-game crafting grant the discount (potentially making double the game's already doubled WBL) or is it just fluff?
Not really, I was just making sure.Last edited by Jack_Simth; 2024-04-03 at 06:46 AM.
Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.
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2024-04-03, 10:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PF1 Altered - Low Level Gestalt] Isekai Adventures
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2024-04-03, 11:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2014
Re: [PF1 Altered - Low Level Gestalt] Isekai Adventures
I have a question regarding animal companions.
In a standard game (no gestalt), animal companions are...generally wasted on classes other than druid, because druid list has a lot of powerful spells on it that focus around supporting the animal companion, and classes without the ability to supplement their buddy with 9th lvl spell support suffer in comparison. This problem is made worse in gestalt, as while the main PC has massive gains in their capabilities, the animal companion does not. If it's not a huge issue, I'd like to be able to stack animal companion progressions on the same companion, rather than having two fragile useless companions. Is that okay?
EDIT: On a similar note, could the animal companion use a rolled stat array instead of their default?Last edited by AvatarVecna; 2024-04-03 at 11:50 AM.
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2024-04-03, 12:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2022
Re: [PF1 Altered - Low Level Gestalt] Isekai Adventures
As people seem to be making different assumptions and yet no one has asked about it, I’ll go for it. For generating attributes, you wrote:
By roll a set of 4d6b3 six times, did you mean roll a set of six 4d6b3 once, roll a set of six 4d6b3 six times, or something else? Because if the first, the only option for picking sets other than your own is taking others, which is what most people seem to assume, while the second, you’d probably be limited to the six you rolled.
Edit: There are archetypes that change the main stat used for class features. Would that in of itself count as a class feature?Last edited by Dakrsidder; 2024-04-03 at 12:39 PM.
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2024-04-03, 02:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2016
Re: [PF1 Altered - Low Level Gestalt] Isekai Adventures
Thanks for the FFd20 reference!
Yes, lets give Hero points a try, same for Stamina rules
Didn't get what you asking, can you give me sample?
That is OK
I will say no to Crafting feats, I already give you double WBL, rules updated .
Yes, that backstory should do the trick. Are you planning to go straight forward on Chronicler of Worlds and Mind Chemist?, aren't you customizing your build?
I will allow to stack animal companion progressions and see how it goes, but you have to use default stat array
Sorry for the confusion, its 4d6b3 x6 only
You can change the main stat by picking the Feature that allows itLast edited by Talivan; 2024-04-03 at 02:31 PM.
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2024-04-03, 02:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PF1 Altered - Low Level Gestalt] Isekai Adventures
I'm tempted to do some customization, but I know I get analysis paralysis if I let myself get too far in the weeds with options.
Int-based castings, all knowledge skills as class skills, bardic knowledge bonus, and the mind-chemist doubling int-bonus on int-based skill checks are the 4 main features that drew me to that combination of chronicler and mindchemist. I'm about to go take an exam. I'll think over what I can swap out later.
Edit: if I could sell off the alchemist formula list and the bard spell list, I think I'd like the wizard spellbook and wizard spellcasting, plus maybe a familiar if I sell off something else?Last edited by Zhentarim; 2024-04-03 at 02:52 PM.
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2024-04-03, 02:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2022
Re: [PF1 Altered - Low Level Gestalt] Isekai Adventures
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2024-04-03, 03:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2016
Re: [PF1 Altered - Low Level Gestalt] Isekai Adventures
Don't stress yourself, just change the things you don't like about the Archetype with other achetypes.
Sorry, but you have to stick with Alchemist Formulas and Bard casting spells. you can still grab Wizard spells into formulas as per base rules
Yes, you can choose from other player's rolls
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2024-04-03, 05:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PF1 Altered - Low Level Gestalt] Isekai Adventures
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2024-04-03, 07:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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- New Zealand
Re: [PF1 Altered - Low Level Gestalt] Isekai Adventures
For witch's patron spells, can we take part of the staged features like patron without the spells?
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2024-04-03, 11:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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2024-04-04, 05:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2013
Re: [PF1 Altered - Low Level Gestalt] Isekai Adventures
I have many questions, sorry
Mind blade:
1) The only mind blade stage, would be the enhanced mind blade class feature. That improves at 3rd and every 3 levels from there. Correct?
2) If I take panoply of blades (from the psychic armory) can I have other mind blade modifications be part of the panoply? In particular I want the storied blade of the living legend to grab thousand blades of the champion and have a lot of different weapons telekinetically floating around me.
Astral Armor:
1) What are the stages proper?
1.a) Most astral armors (not all) get free customizations, at 1st, 2nd, 12th level. Are those stages?
1.b) Some customizations get increments to the armor at some levels, for example an integrator gets an improvement to natural armor at 1st, 5th, 10th, 15th, 20th level. Are those stages?
1.c) Aegis get customizations. Are those stages? If so what's the ratio? 1 customization point = one stage? Or as many customization points as you would get on a level = one stage
1.d) If an aegis gets several things from astral armor at the same level, are all those things one stage? Or are each a different stage? Practical example, an integrator gets at 1st level the mechanized body class feature (that replaces astral armor), that's one stage. It also gets 2 free customizations (is that an additional stage? 2 additional stages? 0 additional?), an increase to their natural armor (is that an additional stage? 0 additional?) and 3 customization points (are those stages?)
1.e) What's the effective aegis level (it limits the accessible customizations). Is it my level irregardless of how many stages do I spend?Last edited by thethird; 2024-04-04 at 05:55 AM.
Thanks a lot Gengy for the awesome... just a sec... avatar. :)
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2024-04-04, 06:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PF1 Altered - Low Level Gestalt] Isekai Adventures
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2024-04-04, 07:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2006
Re: [PF1 Altered - Low Level Gestalt] Isekai Adventures
Happy to help.
Recharging station is a go, then. No ten minute adventuring day if I get in, just ten minute coffee breaks.
Okay, so, you're talking about classes like they're full sets - e.g., Paladin casting is 20 RFS because it's a system, and is paid for from 1st, despite not doing anything until 4th. Level 1 Paladin gets four to six RFS (Aura of good, detect evil, smite evil 1/day, spellcasting, possibly proficiency with weapons and armor). Three at 2nd (Divine grace, lay on hands, casting), four at 3rd (Aura of courage, divine health, mercy, casting), and three at 4th (Channel positive energy, smite evil, and casting). After that, it's essentially two/level (one named feature, plus casting)... well, depending on how you count Divine Bond (it's a non-progressing one-off that references a progression for the effects).
I just want to make sure that we only get the Regular Feature Slots as we level into the things we're trading out, rather than getting them all at once and being able to... "front load" very heavily by nabbing things from archetypes that trade out the low level things.
Cool...
Is that no crafting feats at all, or "they don't work for starting wealth"? The two are different when it comes to crafting some things (most notably constructs, which always obey their creators even if they've been told to obey someone else), and also long-term planning.
Does that apply to other pets as well? A double progression Synthesist Eidolon would really let me mix it up in melee.
Hmm... what would a 12th level animal companion look like... stating a "Cat, big" for that....
Spoiler
Size Large;
Speed 40 ft.;
AC 25 (+11 natural armor, -1 size, +5 Dex, +4 Armor) Touch 14, flat-footed 20
Attack bite +14 (1d8+8 + Grab), 2 claws +14 (1d6+8 + Grab);
Ability Scores Str 26, Dex 20, Con 17, Int 2, Wis 15, Cha 10;
Special Attacks grab, pounce, rake (1d6+8);
Special Qualities low-light vision, scent.
HP: 10d8+30 (75)
7 BAB
Fort +10
Ref +12
Will +5
10 skill points (ten ranks in any one skill; go with either Perception or Survival for a +15)
5 feats (ignoring these for now)
Ability Score Increase * 2 (went with +1 Str/Dex)
Multiattack (does nothing, as claw, bite, and rake are all primary)
Evasion
Devotion
Link
Share Spells
... and that's before selecting the feats (Improved Natural Armor, Weapon Focus (Claw and/or bite), and Improved Natural Attack (claw and/or bite) might be handy), spending anything on equipment (e.g., +1 Mithral Chain Shirt Barding for five points of cheap AC), long-term buffs (Magic Vestments, Barkskin, Greater Magic Fang, and so on), or short-term buffs. It's also a pretty vanilla companion; grabbing, say, Monstrous Mount on the PC for a Griffon increases the AC by four, HP by ten, adds Darkvision and Flight, lets it take any feat (including armor proficiency for proper cheap AC) and not worry about tricks or handle animal checks, and only reduces the strength modifier by three points.
This may be perfectly fine; the question is "do you expect a pet to outshine a PC"?
... and hopefully nobody triples up an animal companion.Last edited by Jack_Simth; 2024-04-04 at 07:06 AM.
Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.
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2024-04-04, 10:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PF1 Altered - Low Level Gestalt] Isekai Adventures
Currently Recruiting WW/Mafia: Logic's Deathloop Mafia and Cazero's Graduates Of Hope's Peak - Danganronpa Mafia
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2024-04-04, 01:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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2024-04-04, 05:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2006
Re: [PF1 Altered - Low Level Gestalt] Isekai Adventures
Isn't that just a matter of hiring a casting of Polymorph Any Object to turn it into a Medium-sized dragon? Kingdom(Animal), Class(dragon type), Related(match the elemental subtype). Four point strength boost (from the chained duplication of Form of the Dragon 1), 5 attacks (bite, claw, claw, wing, wing), flight, Darkvision, a little energy resistance, and four points of natural armor.
Last edited by Jack_Simth; 2024-04-04 at 05:29 PM.
Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.
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2024-04-04, 06:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PF1 Altered - Low Level Gestalt] Isekai Adventures
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2024-04-04, 06:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PF1 Altered - Low Level Gestalt] Isekai Adventures
Then the full bab d12 hit dice with monk saves starts outpacing other melee types. A 6th level Drake has five hit dice, 12 str, and is small. A 12th level one has nine hit dice, sixteen strength, and is medium. An 18th level drake is Huge with 24 strength and 14 hit dice.
Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.
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2024-04-04, 07:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PF1 Altered - Low Level Gestalt] Isekai Adventures
Currently Recruiting WW/Mafia: Logic's Deathloop Mafia and Cazero's Graduates Of Hope's Peak - Danganronpa Mafia
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