MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable

[3Power]

except it isn't super weird looking (humanoid tree).

*Cough Cough*

[AGow95]

So, uh, anyone else worried/excited that when the big splash panel reveal comes, no one will state explicitly "Oh my gods, he was a [thingamajig] all along!" and another two months will be spent arguing what the MitD is?

Because unless he's something so visually iconic that he can easily be identified via stick figure form, I wonder if there's a good chance the debate will keep going.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

So, uh, anyone else worried/excited that when the big splash panel reveal comes, no one will state explicitly "Oh my gods, he was a [thingamajig] all along!" and another two months will be spent arguing what the MitD is?

Not particularly, no. Take a look at the discussion threads for the comic in which the OotS is walked around all manner of weird creatures by Serini. Notice just how quickly most, if not all, are identified. I fully expect that MitD, once revealed, will be similarly quickly recognized by someone.

What I do fully expect is that any number of individual will claim MitD doesn't fit the clues as given. And I am willing to hazard the guess that it will be because they will have made assumptions on how the clues work that will turn out to not be accurate.

Grey Wolf

[Kish]

I don't think there's any chance Rich will mess up the reveal so badly it's not an actual reveal.

[b_jonas]

Question. Do you happen to know what the body of a xorn is made of? Are they made of rocks like an earth elemental, or do they have a flesh that ordinary living creatures could get nutrition from? In Nethack they have an edible fleshy corpse, which is why I'm wondering, but of course Nethack monsters can differ from D&D. (This is only very tangentially related to the MitD – no, he isn't a xorn, but I'm wondering if he can eat xorns.)

AGow95: No. I expect that the comic strip will be very explicit about what the MitD is and what abilities he has, but we'll still be arguing about it in ridiculous ways.

[Peelee]

So, uh, anyone else worried/excited that when the big splash panel reveal comes, no one will state explicitly "Oh my gods, he was a [thingamajig] all along!" and another two months will be spent arguing what the MitD is?

Because unless he's something so visually iconic that he can easily be identified via stick figure form, I wonder if there's a good chance the debate will keep going.

My pet theory is that
A.) MitD is a protean, and
2.) on the reveal, at least one character will express that they have no idea what he is, likely as the last panel gag for that page.

[Tzardok]

Question. Do you happen to know what the body of a xorn is made of? Are they made of rocks like an earth elemental, or do they have a flesh that ordinary living creatures could get nutrition from? In Nethack they have an edible fleshy corpse, which is why I'm wondering, but of course Nethack monsters can differ from D&D. (This is only very tangentially related to the MitD – no, he isn't a xorn, but I'm wondering if he can eat xorns.)

A xorn is an outsider, not an elemental, so it's body will have at least some kind of anatomy that isn't just for show, instead of being homogenous earth. Otherwise you couldn't sneak attack them. On the other hand, that doesn't mean that this body is made of flesh, as other outsiders can be partially or completely be made of other stuff. Lantern archons for example seem to be made completely of light, though they too must have some kind of internal organs. On the third hand, outsiders don't have a soul seperate from their body, so their body is essentially some kind of spiritual phenomenon -wether a refined mortal soul, as in the case of an archon, or some kind of elemental essence in the case of genies - that manifested as something physical and effectively just pretends to be flesh or whatever. So it is quite possible that a xorn is fleshy, but its corpse dissolves into sand or gravel or whatever after some time.

All of that is of course not necessarily relevant to wether the MitD can eat a xorn, as at least some of the suggested candidates can digest anorganic material (dragons, for example. Or my pet theory, the cipactli).

[b_jonas]

Dragons can digest anorganic material? I hadn't heard of that.

[Tzardok]

Dragons can digest anorganic material? I hadn't heard of that.

Oh yes. The Draconomicon goes more in-depth into it of course, but the Monster Manual already included stuff about how dragons (especially metal dragons) sometimes or even often eat inorganic stuff (the SRD of course skipped those parts of the description). For example, bronze dragons occasionally eat pearls as a snack, copper dragons eat ore often if they can't get meat, and a gold dragon's favourite food are gems and pearls.

[Crusher]

Oh yes. The Draconomicon goes more in-depth into it of course, but the Monster Manual already included stuff about how dragons (especially metal dragons) sometimes or even often eat inorganic stuff (the SRD of course skipped those parts of the description). For example, bronze dragons occasionally eat pearls as a snack, copper dragons eat ore often if they can't get meat, and a gold dragon's favourite food are gems and pearls.

That's probably the best explanation I've ever seen for why dragons actually accumulate treasure hoards. Sure, they can use it to bribe minions, but having a gigantic pile of assorted candy bars that you can sleep on comfortably without messing them up feels far more broadly applicable.

I could see that explanation being marginally embarrassing for dragons, so as a group they latched onto "We're just inherently super greedy for no real reason! And we like having resources, just in case!" as the public explanations and have stuck with it ever since.

Edit - Also makes sense why these enormously, and inexplicably, greedy creatures are often willing to pay creatures for services out of their hoard, or even make trades. "If you kill that annoying medusa across the lake, I'll pay you 2000gp!" the dragon promises. "In rubies?", the party asks. "Emeralds." the dragon clarifies.

Inwardly, the dragon is thinking "Emeralds. Bleh. The Mounds bars of the gem world. Glad adventurers think they're valuable so I can get some use out of them. And like I'm going to give them rubies. Yum yum yum. Like a Twix bar made of yummy gemstone. I wouldn't give them rubies even if I hadn't already eaten them all."

[Tzardok]

That's probably the best explanation I've ever seen for why dragons actually accumulate treasure hoards. Sure, they can use it to bribe minions, but having a gigantic pile of assorted candy bars that you can sleep on comfortably without messing them up feels far more broadly applicable.

I could see that explanation being marginally embarrassing for dragons, so as a group they latched onto "We're just inherently super greedy for no real reason! And we like having resources, just in case!" as the public explanations and have stuck with it ever since.

The Draconomicon includes other uses dragons have for their hoard. For one, a dragon's sense of touch degrades with age because of the thicker scales (the only sense that doesn't sharpen instead), and so dragons enjoy lying on stuff with points and edges. Kinda like a massage.
For another, a hoards are involved with mating. The bigger and shinier the hoard, the more attractive the mate.
A third use has to do with dying. If a dragon reaches the end of its life span, it enters a state called the Twilight, were it rapidly deteriorates in body and mind before it dies as a wreck. If the dragon doesn't want to become undead, it has multiple ways to avoid that (willing itself to die at a dragon boneyard, fusing into the land and becoming a guardian spirit for nestlings, becoming an immortal semi-divine being through the Dragon Ascendant prestige class), but all of those require that the dragon devours its hoard first.

Afroakuma once built on those uses a dragon has for a hoard and on the fact that gems are often used as material components for spells and postulated that gems and gold are inherently charged with magical energy and that dragons leech those out when lying on their hoard, fuling their own sorcerous power that way.

[Crusher]

The Draconomicon includes other uses dragons have for their hoard. For one, a dragon's sense of touch degrades with age because of the thicker scales (the only sense that doesn't sharpen instead), and so dragons enjoy lying on stuff with points and edges. Kinda like a massage.
For another, a hoards are involved with mating. The bigger and shinier the hoard, the more attractive the mate.
A third use has to do with dying. If a dragon reaches the end of its life span, it enters a state called the Twilight, were it rapidly deteriorates in body and mind before it dies as a wreck. If the dragon doesn't want to become undead, it has multiple ways to avoid that (willing itself to die at a dragon boneyard, fusing into the land and becoming a guardian spirit for nestlings, becoming an immortal semi-divine being through the Dragon Ascendant prestige class), but all of those require that the dragon devours its hoard first.

Afroakuma once built on those uses a dragon has for a hoard and on the fact that gems are often used as material components for spells and postulated that gems and gold are inherently charged with magical energy and that dragons leech those out when lying on their hoard, fuling their own sorcerous power that way.

That's great and all, but none of those are going to apply before the dragon hits Ancient. Gems being really good snacks still feels way more direct an explanation.

[Peelee]

That's probably the best explanation I've ever seen for why dragons actually accumulate treasure hoards.

"Creature likes shiny things" isn't a good enough explanation? Humans can't eat gemstones but still like them quite a bit.

[Tzardok]

That's great and all, but none of those are going to apply before the dragon hits Ancient. Gems being really good snacks still feels way more direct an explanation.

They don't? Dragons can mate from Young Adult on, and hoards play a role there. And if the whole leeching thing is true, well, maybe a dragon needs to start gathering "gem energy" in childhood so that it can actually start casting in adulthood.

[Crusher]

They don't? Dragons can mate from Young Adult on, and hoards play a role there. And if the whole leeching thing is true, well, maybe a dragon needs to start gathering "gem energy" in childhood so that it can actually start casting in adulthood.

Eh. A dragon spends more time in the Ancient/Wyrm/Great Wyrm categories than all the others combined, and their ability to acquire a horde during that period is probably 2 or even 3 orders of magnitude greater than it was during the earlier age categories. A dragon's loot accumulation during its first 600 years (assuming it isn't killed by adventurers, which makes most of those points moot), should be a rounding error compared to what it has when it dies of old age at 1500 or whatever.

"Creature likes shiny things" isn't a good enough explanation? Humans can't eat gemstones but still like them quite a bit.

Sure, but human gemstone gathering is exactly the opposite of a dragon's. Humans gather gemstones for entirely decorative to impress upon others how wealthy the human is. And its typically done either to show a commitment to someone (like an engagement ring) or after the human has already accumulated very substantial wealth and after they've built a suitable home, established a sizeable source of income, etc.

A dragon *is* its own business, so to speak, and it seems rare they put much of their wealth into home improvement. Sure, sometimes they hire guards or put in traps or whatever, but they don't spend much gold on landscaping. If it happens, its just happening organically thanks to the dragon's presence or as a result of the dragon's day-to-day activities. And dragons don't generally have a lot of visitors (iirc, that's the usual reason for dragons not to build a fancy house. Sure, they're big, but the older dragons could totally afford it. Its because they *don't* want people to know where they are, that leads to home invasions), and, Smaug aside, they don't trot around showing off their gems. They keep them safely at home, so, the opposite of conspicuous consumption.

The other explanation I'll buy is dragons need hoards for mating. Dragons picking mates based on the size of their hoard makes perfect sense. I mean, it makes no sense, but picking mates is like that. /shrug

"The past-breeding-age dragons just got into the habit when they were younger and habits die hard" seems reasonable. Reminds them of younger days.

[Peelee]

Sure, but human gemstone gathering is exactly the opposite of a dragon's.

I'd argue "ostentatious display of wealth" is pretty much the same for both. The dragon just doesn't care if others see it. The entire purpose behind dragons hoarding treasure is a metaphor for greed, so wanting gold and gems for their own sake is hardly out of line or not an understandable motivation. Hell, that perfectly fit billionaires - past some line, let's say ten billion of personal wealth why not, you have more money than you can realistically spend. Another fifty million isn't even real anymore, it's just a number on a display, and they still want that number to be bigger.

[Kish]

Wealth hoarding for the sake of wealth hoarding has certain alignment implications, and anything Tolkien wrote about Smaug's thought processes translates awkwardly to, say, silver dragons if it remains the case. And having a hoard does remain the case.

[Peelee]

Wealth hoarding for the sake of wealth hoarding has certain alignment implications, and anything Tolkien wrote about Smaug's thought processes translates awkwardly to, say, silver dragons if it remains the case. And having a hoard does remain the case.

Certain aspects of Dungeons and Dragons not meshing perfectly well with the alignment system as-is is... let's phrase it as "not a rare or terribly surprising event".

ETA: And that's assuming I agree with your premise. Hoarding wealth in D&D, which does not have a terribly robust economic system, need not have certain alignment implications to start with. But even if ee assume it does, hey, 3.5 be like that sometimes.

[hamishspence]

Oh yes. The Draconomicon goes more in-depth into it of course, but the Monster Manual already included stuff about how dragons (especially metal dragons) sometimes or even often eat inorganic stuff (the SRD of course skipped those parts of the description). For example, bronze dragons occasionally eat pearls as a snack, copper dragons eat ore often if they can't get meat, and a gold dragon's favourite food are gems and pearls.

4E continues this theme, saying that metallic dragons have scales that contain small quantities of the relevant metal, and that they occasionally (especially when some of their scales have been damaged or lost and need regenerating) consume bits of the relevant metal, since though it's not absolutely necessary to their diet, their scales regenerate faster when they do.

[Ortho]

So, uh, anyone else worried/excited that when the big splash panel reveal comes, no one will state explicitly "Oh my gods, he was a [thingamajig] all along!" and another two months will be spent arguing what the MitD is?

Not exactly, but I do worry that because the reveal has taken 20+ years and 3 D&D editions, some of the current audience of OotS just won't have a frame of reference for it. Like me. I'm a young whippersnapper who started with 5e and I don't know what most of the FBS contestants are. I certainly wouldn't recognize any of them if they were drawn on-screen.

[Tubercular Ox]

Not exactly, but I do worry that because the reveal has taken 20+ years and 3 D&D editions, some of the current audience of OotS just won't have a frame of reference for it. Like me. I'm a young whippersnapper who started with 5e and I don't know what most of the FBS contestants are. I certainly wouldn't recognize any of them if they were drawn on-screen.

There will be a cover story for people who are not interested in the guessing game. The reveal will advance the plot even without knowing what D&D monster is revealed.

Alternate take: The cover story is the real story, and the guessing game is an easter egg at best.

[hroþila]

Not exactly, but I do worry that because the reveal has taken 20+ years and 3 D&D editions, some of the current audience of OotS just won't have a frame of reference for it. Like me. I'm a young whippersnapper who started with 5e and I don't know what most of the FBS contestants are. I certainly wouldn't recognize any of them if they were drawn on-screen.

I wouldn't sweat it. I doubt hardcore D&D 3.5 players that would be familiar with most of the FBS contestants have ever made up a majority of the comic's audience at any point after the first couple years

[Kish]

Not exactly, but I do worry that because the reveal has taken 20+ years and 3 D&D editions, some of the current audience of OotS just won't have a frame of reference for it. Like me. I'm a young whippersnapper who started with 5e and I don't know what most of the FBS contestants are. I certainly wouldn't recognize any of them if they were drawn on-screen.

I'm quite sure Rich will have a character spell out what the creature is after he's revealed. That way he has Serini spell out here that Calder has an affinity for mind control so that why Sunny is obeying him isn't a mystery, and has Roy spell out here that Protection from Evil will block Calder's mind control and Minrah can cast it.

[Metastachydium]

Not exactly, but I do worry that because the reveal has taken 20+ years and 3 D&D editions, some of the current audience of OotS just won't have a frame of reference for it. Like me. I'm a young whippersnapper who started with 5e and I don't know what most of the FBS contestants are. I certainly wouldn't recognize any of them if they were drawn on-screen.

I wouldn't sweat it. I doubt hardcore D&D 3.5 players that would be familiar with most of the FBS contestants have ever made up a majority of the comic's audience at any point after the first couple years

Yup. Not only doess 60% of the FBS list consist of creatures from the ELH that is, well, not one of the books that see a lot of use, the other 40% is a thing invented for another, science fiction webcomic and something from a 3rd party publication I wouldn't be aware of if it were not for someone suggesting the Xenocrysth as a candidate in this thread.

[Peelee]

Not exactly, but I do worry that because the reveal has taken 20+ years and 3 D&D editions, some of the current audience of OotS just won't have a frame of reference for it. Like me. I'm a young whippersnapper who started with 5e and I don't know what most of the FBS contestants are. I certainly wouldn't recognize any of them if they were drawn on-screen.

By that same token, a person who has made their living writing for the last 20 years probably is able to take that into account. The Giant is fully aware of his readership base's familiarity with Dungeons and Dragons. To wit:

More than half of the readers of OOTS do not play D&D at all, and half of those that do play only casually.

I don't think it's actually important for readers to really understand the game mechanics of what is happening, as long as it is plausible. An enraged half-orc smashing a person into a wall so hard that the wall breaks is entirely plausible, so it shouldn't matter how it's accomplished "by the rules." Most readers are only peripherally aware of the rules anyway.

[Ruck]

Not exactly, but I do worry that because the reveal has taken 20+ years and 3 D&D editions, some of the current audience of OotS just won't have a frame of reference for it. Like me. I'm a young whippersnapper who started with 5e and I don't know what most of the FBS contestants are. I certainly wouldn't recognize any of them if they were drawn on-screen.

Heck, I don't even play D&D.

There will be a cover story for people who are not interested in the guessing game. The reveal will advance the plot even without knowing what D&D monster is revealed.

Alternate take: The cover story is the real story, and the guessing game is an easter egg at best.

I'm not sure what you mean by "cover story" or "real story," but the guessing game has always been an easter egg. The guessing game is not the primary reason Rich has kept MITD in the dark; it's for the dramatic impact of his reveal.