OOTS #1302 - The Discussion Thread

[arimareiji]

Wow. I can't remember the last time I got to witness a wordplay-measuring contest. (^_^)º

[bunsen_h]

Wow. I can't remember the last time I got to witness a wordplay-measuring contest. (^_^)º

One sees them from time to time, but usually going for quantity rather than quality (see: Piers Anthony), and lacking originality. I have an acquaintance who just. Can't. Stop. Emitting. "Puns". Repetitively. It sometimes seems to be an automatic thing: hear word X, say "pun" Y. Many people avoid him; he's lost friends and (I'm told) even shared accommodation because they just couldn't take it any more. I enjoy clever wordplay, e.g. something which ties together multiple concepts under discussion, or more than one language. That kind of complexity would be hard to score competitively.

[Peelee]

Wow. I can't remember the last time I got to witness a wordplay-measuring contest. (^_^)º

Surely you've seen Jasdoif and me talk to each other.

[arimareiji]

One sees them from time to time, but usually going for quantity rather than quality (see: Piers Anthony), and lacking originality. I have an acquaintance who just. Can't. Stop. Emitting. "Puns". Repetitively. It sometimes seems to be an automatic thing: hear word X, say "pun" Y. Many people avoid him; he's lost friends and (I'm told) even shared accommodation because they just couldn't take it any more. I enjoy clever wordplay, e.g. something which ties together multiple concepts under discussion, or more than one language. That kind of complexity would be hard to score competitively.

Ditto wrt cleverness. My favorite form is the kind that takes a few moments to hit and induces a groan of pain. Wrt trying to score points... some people try, apparently. (^_^)º

Surely you've seen Jasdoif and me talk to each other.

Wordplay, even friendly competitive wordplay, is one thing. A wordplay-measuring contest is something else, and oddly enough it may be a form of compensation for lack of other literary endowments.

~~~

No competition intended, I heard a doozy of a pun the other day which I can't take credit (or blame) for:

What does Titanic have in common with The Sixth Sense?

[Peelee]

No competition intended, I heard a doozy of a pun the other day which I can't take credit (or blame) for:

What does Titanic have in common with The Sixth Sense?

Icy dead people?

ETA: I really wanted to go with something along the lines of "rhe main character stopped talking to their SO after a certain age" but it was too murky that I was dunking on Leo. Had to think for a second on an actual pun.

[arimareiji]

Icy dead people?

ETA: I really wanted to go with something along the lines of "rhe main character stopped talking to their SO after a certain age" but it was too murky that I was dunking on Leo. Had to think for a second on an actual pun.

Ding ding ding!

It's always good to dunk on Leo. In that spirit, you could also say "They're both inspiration for the same meme."

[Quizatzhaderac]

Wow. I can't remember the last time I got to witness a wordplay-measuring contest. (^_^)º

FOr the record I'm not knocking Riftwolf's pun, I'm just making sure I get all the jokes.

[Riftwolf]

FOr the record I'm not knocking Riftwolf's pun, I'm just making sure I get all the jokes.

It felt like a slam.
"Yes I understood your surface level pun, very drole, but was there supposed to be any levels of complexity that weren't conveyed?"

[KorvinStarmast]

It felt like a slam.
"Yes I understood your surface level pun, very drole, but was there supposed to be any levels of complexity that weren't conveyed?"

Droll is spelled like troll, but it does not regenerate.

[Quizatzhaderac]

It felt like a slam.

It fell apart for me is that "boring" is utterly subjective (even relative to other music opinions), and you probably know much more about them and similar bands, so the statement "Radiohead is boring" was no more intuitive than any other random statement about them.

[Mordar]

I don't see him as into New Kids on the Block, necessarily. (Although with their breakout album coming in 1988, I don't see them as particularly 80s, either.) But U2 was arguably the biggest rock band in the world for a point in the 80s, and Elan strikes me as someone who goes big.

Huge U2 fan "from before they were cool [in the US]" because occasionally it is fun to be "that guy". Frankly I think my hangup on Elan and U2 is this...they lacked the drama in the 80s that I affiliate with Elan. They were straight forward, with undeniable power, and I didn't feel them as drama until post Joshua Tree and really, mostly after that...so maybe 90s U2 fits Elan better in my vision.

- M

[Ruck]

Huge U2 fan "from before they were cool [in the US]" because occasionally it is fun to be "that guy". Frankly I think my hangup on Elan and U2 is this...they lacked the drama in the 80s that I affiliate with Elan. They were straight forward, with undeniable power, and I didn't feel them as drama until post Joshua Tree and really, mostly after that...so maybe 90s U2 fits Elan better in my vision.

- M

Really? I think they're quite dramatic. The Joshua Tree alone has "With or Without You," "I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For," "Where the Streets Have No Name." All pretty dramatic; arguably "In God's Country" is as well. And before that, I consider, for example, "Pride (In the Name of Love)" and "Sunday Bloody Sunday" pretty dramatic.

[Mordar]

Really? I think they're quite dramatic. The Joshua Tree alone has "With or Without You," "I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For," "Where the Streets Have No Name." All pretty dramatic; arguably "In God's Country" is as well. And before that, I consider, for example, "Pride (In the Name of Love)" and "Sunday Bloody Sunday" pretty dramatic.

I meant they didn't perform with drama...if just discussing the "drama" in the music itself I would point much more heavily pre-Joshua Tree. Their performances were straight-ahead...the most drama I saw was flag waving at Red Rocks. Huge changes later because bands evolve (not just sell out to the kids that thought Joshua Tree was their first album...

Now take artists like Bowie, KISS, P!nk...they brought drama in the performance...that's the kind of thing I think Elan would like, but since none of them were 80s I didn't include those options. MJ and Madonna fit nicely though.

- M (Doesn't actually believe U2 sold out...the mass market just caught up to them)

[Ruck]

I meant they didn't perform with drama...if just discussing the "drama" in the music itself I would point much more heavily pre-Joshua Tree. Their performances were straight-ahead...the most drama I saw was flag waving at Red Rocks. Huge changes later because bands evolve (not just sell out to the kids that thought Joshua Tree was their first album...

Now take artists like Bowie, KISS, P!nk...they brought drama in the performance...that's the kind of thing I think Elan would like, but since none of them were 80s I didn't include those options. MJ and Madonna fit nicely though.

- M (Doesn't actually believe U2 sold out...the mass market just caught up to them)

I think we may be thinking of "dramatic" in different senses. I think there's more of a costume-performance element to those acts you mentioned-- maybe theatrical is a better word-- but I feel like a lot of U2's music has the kind of bombast and/or heightened emotion that the term "dramatic" fits pretty well.

(Granted, I did not see U2 live in the 80s, so you may have more relevant direct experience than I do.)

[Mordar]

I think we may be thinking of "dramatic" in different senses. I think there's more of a costume-performance element to those acts you mentioned-- maybe theatrical is a better word-- but I feel like a lot of U2's music has the kind of bombast and/or heightened emotion that the term "dramatic" fits pretty well.

(Granted, I did not see U2 live in the 80s, so you may have more relevant direct experience than I do.)

Yes, that is a good phrase...theatrical. U2 was intensely emotive from the very beginning, so I agree there as well.

To split a last hair (until the next one) I didn't mean (just) the costuming for the artists I indicated...it was as much the blocking, choreography, gymnastics, etc., along with the make up and wardrobe.

- M

[Ruck]

Yes, that is a good phrase...theatrical. U2 was intensely emotive from the very beginning, so I agree there as well.

To split a last hair (until the next one) I didn't mean (just) the costuming for the artists I indicated...it was as much the blocking, choreography, gymnastics, etc., along with the make up and wardrobe.

- M

Right, I kinda oversimplified with "costuming"-- kinda tried to get the idea out in a hurry.

But yeah, like you said, U2 is highly emotive, which is closer to what I meant by dramatic.

[hroþila]

I mean, most of the time Elan is just singing to a lute arrangement. Clearly he's more of a stripped-down folk singer-songwriter

[Ruck]

I mean, most of the time Elan is just singing to a lute arrangement. Clearly he's more of a stripped-down folk singer-songwriter

I'd bet if it was feasible to bring a huge production on the road with him, or a rig like Fury Road's Doof Warrior has, Elan would do it.

[pearl jam]

Spoiler: big image

Show

I wasn't up to taking the time to do it as a vector based

[KorvinStarmast]

I mean, most of the time Elan is just singing to a lute arrangement. Clearly he's more of a stripped-down folk singer-songwriter

John Prine with a better attitude, or James Taylor.

[Quizatzhaderac]

I mean, most of the time Elan is just singing to a lute arrangement. Clearly he's more of a stripped-down folk singer-songwriter

Elan does orchestral music as well.

I wouldn't put k-pop past him, if Rich could get a joke out of it.

Just to be contrary, I'm going to imagine in 302 that the duet with the accordion guy is a Funaná.

[arimareiji]

Elan does orchestral music as well.

I wouldn't put k-pop past him, if Rich could get a joke out of it.

Just to be contrary, I'm going to imagine in 302 that the duet with the accordion guy is a Funaná.

Just to be silly, I'll imagine that the accordion guy is Weird p'Al(adin) Yankovic. Thankya for pointing out the accordion, I didn't pick that up before.

[Peelee]

Elan is a bard. He knows storytelling and structure along with music. He'd defo be a Gordon Lightfoot guy. Also Bob Dylan and Joan Baez.

[arimareiji]

Elan is a bard. He knows storytelling and structure along with music. He'd defo be a Gordon Lightfoot guy. Also Bob Dylan and Joan Baez.

Thankfully, the fleet didn't sink thanks to Kubota's antics... elsewise he'd have crafted a mournful ballad about it, like he did for Roy's splat during the battle for Azure City.

[Mordar]

Elan is a bard. He knows storytelling and structure along with music. He'd defo be a Gordon Lightfoot guy. Also Bob Dylan and Joan Baez.

James Taylor and Jimmy Buffet also fit...but contemplate who those artists liked and cite as influences, and you find a lot more than just other S/SW storyteller types.

Plus, I think that is a niche bard...not every one is a S/SW...some are frontmen, some are composers...

David Lee Roth is clearly a Bard. And an A$$, but that's beside the point.

- M

[KorvinStarmast]

James Taylor and Jimmy Buffet also fit...but contemplate who those artists liked and cite as influences, and you find a lot more than just other S/SW storyteller types.

Plus, I think that is a niche bard...not every one is a S/SW...some are frontmen, some are composers...

David Lee Roth is clearly a Bard. And an A$$, but that's beside the point.

- M

Warren Zevon is the best bard/balladeer.

[brian 333]

If storytelling is a factor. The Temptations has to be on the list. I've never seen Elan dance, or they'd have been on the list.

Don't forget Run-DMC.

[Peelee]

Warren Zevon is the best bard/balladeer.

Well, sure. He's the only one who thought to ask for lawyers, guns, and money.

[Mordar]

Warren Zevon is the best bard/balladeer.

He met a lich with a Chinese menu in his hand. And his hair was perfect.

I pick Van Morrison ahead of him, though.

- M

[KorvinStarmast]

He met a lich with a Chinese menu in his hand. And his hair was perfect.

Roland, the Warrior, from the land of the midnight sun, was sitting at the end of the bar with van Owen ...