Completely Inconsequential Hot-Takes 2: People Take Too Long to Post New Threads

[Bohandas]

I wonder also if increasing monetization of hobby activity in online spaces has something to do with it.

Of all the negative changes things that have happened to the internet this one was by far the worst.

People have become villainous

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If we're really lucky maybe the advent of AI will undo it to an extent by flooding some of the markets Hudson Hawk style, but I'm not getting my hopes up

[Batcathat]

Of all the negative changes things that have happened to the internet this one was by far the worst.

People have become villainous

Spoiler

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I mean, it's not like the Joker was the first one to say that. I don't think there's anything wrong with people trying to get paid for what they do, if people don't think it's worth it than they just don't pay, and there's still a massive amount of free (whether financed by ads or done entirely for free) content on the internet.

[Bohandas]

Another hot take: 2001 A Space Odyssey was a bad movie. In a two and a half hour movie there's maybe half an hour's worth of plot, and the beginning and ending make absolutely no sense at all unless you've read the book (And even then the 20 minutes of kaleidoscopes at the end is still pretty boring)

Similar pacing issues with It's A Wonderful Life. That movie should have lasted about 1/3 the amount of time that it did.

[Rockphed]

Another hot take: 2001 A Space Odyssey was a bad movie. In a two and a half hour movie there's maybe half an hour's worth of plot, and the beginning and ending make absolutely no sense at all unless you've read the book (And even then the 20 minutes of kaleidoscopes at the end is still pretty boring)

Similar pacing issues with It's A Wonderful Life. That movie should have lasted about 1/3 the amount of time that it did.

I'll give you 2001: A Space Odyssey, but I think It's A Wonderful Life is properly paced for what it is. It is supposed to be a somewhat uplifting family film, and it manages that. Now, I think the narrative structure could do with more non-linearity (so instead of following George's life from 12 to 40 mostly in order, we go through it from his talking down the crowd on his wedding day, then go back in flashes to being twelve, then follow him forward until his wedding night and beyond).

That said, I think it mostly became popular because it was in copyright limbo for a while.

Personally, I think more people should watch Desk Set. It is more pertinent now than it was 20 years ago, and it was more pertinent then than it was when first released in the 50s. Also, it has a better strong female protagonist than any movie released in the last 5 years despite being a very 1950s morality film.

[Bohandas]

When viewed in the context of the franchise as a whole Rogue One was the worst Star Wars movie and here's why:

there was the thing where Jedha City exploded in slow motion (it took like a couple minutes) but all the characters were moving at normal speed, like in that one Invader Zim episode. There was the guy that they made a huge deal about but who didn't actually do anything. They changed Tarkin from a coldly calculating sociopath to an unhinged homicidal maniac who blows up everything that he can, including an imperial military base (I was reminded of the scene in Mystery Men where the villain murders a bunch of his own men just to demonstrate how evil he is). The events and timeline are both completely at odds with what is implied in episode 4, to the point that the exchange between Leia and Vader at the start of ANH becomes almost farcical if viewed in the context of Rogue One. The movie is riddled with bizarre diabolus ex machina. It was tonally different from the rest of the movies. The plans weren't smuggled out on a tape drive. And everything that they say about the designing and construction of the Death Star is a needless retcon

[Peelee]

I got so confused for a second because i swore that was already posted here.

[Keltest]

I got so confused for a second because i swore that was already posted here.

Ditto. I know ive read that take before somewhere. Just, not this thread.

[Peelee]

Ditto. I know ive read that take before somewhere. Just, not this thread.

It's the "you're the minority of viewers" thread.

[veti]

I'm just glad George Lucas had the sense to stop making Star Wars after Return of the Jedi. He was never a good writer in the first place, but an extraordinarily gifted creative team had allowed him to pull off an era-defining trilogy. Anything he attempted to follow it up would have been anticlimactic at best.

[Peelee]

Hot take: recycling is unbelievably overrated.

It's the third (and least important, because it's the least effective) R in the system of Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. Reducing is far and away the most effective of them all. Everything manufactured is future trash. Reduce is the only thing that actually stops that instead of minimizing or mitigating it.

[Mx.Silver]

Hot take: recycling is unbelievably overrated.

It's the third (and least important, because it's the least effective) R in the system of Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. Reducing is far and away the most effective of them all. Everything manufactured is future trash. Reduce is the only thing that actually stops that instead of minimizing or mitigating it.

This isn't really a hot take, it's pretty universally acknowledged. The reason recycling gets over-emphasised is because it has the least impact on the profits of people who make and sell future trash, not because anyone believes it's actually more important.

I wonder also if increasing monetization of hobby activity in online spaces has something to do with it. I grew up through the 'there's not much out there, but we know how to build things, so we'll build it for our own usage and share it' phase of the internet. But now even when I look at what I would have considered relatively small open-source projects, half of the time they have the same generic startup company website template and they're trying to sell consultation services or support contracts. When I was last looking for Discord alternatives, there's a bunch of open-source and self-hosted things, they all look pretty similar, and they are all like 'sure you can host it yourself, but pay us and we'll host it for you and it'll be much easier'.

If people aren't trying things if they can't see money in it, no wonder that making small niche sites that aren't likely going to compete with the big ones but at least let you customize your experience aren't so much of a thing now...

Kind of, although I'm inclined to view it as a result (or at least an epiphenomenon) of the general trend rather than a cause. That is, it's a spill-over of the econimic factors involved in the centralization proccess rather than a driving factor itself (also partly related to how a lot modern internet users may not necessarily be able to afford to do things purely as hobby, although that's getting into territory that's a bit outside board rules to discuss).

[Peelee]

This isn't really a hot take, it's pretty universally acknowledged. The reason recycling gets over-emphasised is because it has the least impact on the profits of people who make and sell future trash, not because anyone believes it's actually more important.

I don't think it's as universally acknowledged as you think it is.

[Mx.Silver]

I don't think it's as universally acknowledged as you think it is.

Yeah, it depends on what circles one's in, really. In my experience it's pretty much undisputed amongst people who have at least some concern about these kind of dthings (people who don't aren't going to care about recycling in the first place, so kind of a non-factor). The situation could well be different in the USA though.

[Bohandas]

This isn't really a hot take, it's pretty universally acknowledged. The reason recycling gets over-emphasised is because it has the least impact on the profits of people who make and sell future trash, not because anyone believes it's actually more important.

And the least impact on the consumer too. Recycling allows you to reduce your environmental impact without becoming some kind of an ascetic

[Peelee]

And the least impact on the consumer too. Recycling allows you to reduce your environmental impact without becoming some kind of an ascetic

So does reusing, which is still more effective than recycling.

[Ionathus]

Similar pacing issues with It's A Wonderful Life. That movie should have lasted about 1/3 the amount of time that it did.

Echoing what Rockphed says. I used to watch It's A Wonderful Life and get annoyed that the "interesting" part that makes the film iconic only happens in the last twenty minutes, but I've really come around on it in recent years. I think it's superbly acted and written very well, and the message of community support is pretty timeless. Structure could've been a little different I guess, but I enjoy everything that's there.

Reducing is far and away the most effective of them all. Everything manufactured is future trash.

Couldn't agree more, though I probably won't be engaging this topic beyond this reply since it's a pretty heavy one for me.

It took me awhile to realize that the three Rs are in order of operations: reduce, then reuse, then recycle if you have no other choice. As far as I understand it, recycling is only really effective on metal (and it's something crazy efficient, like you can make 20ish recycled cans with the energy it takes to make just one from scratch), but even then the best solution is to avoid buying it so you don't have to recycle it at all.

It's the "you're the minority of viewers" thread.

Listen y'all, I know it's hard to keep track of all the threads started by me right now, but in six months when my conspiracy is fully unveiled and I'm (somehow) the creator of every thread on the forum, think of how convenient it will be for all of us!

[Coppercloud]

Hot take: recycling is unbelievably overrated.

It's the third (and least important, because it's the least effective) R in the system of Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. Reducing is far and away the most effective of them all. Everything manufactured is future trash. Reduce is the only thing that actually stops that instead of minimizing or mitigating it.

Exactly. But paradoxically I think recycling is also an effective first step to make people acknowledge the amount of waste they produce. Obviously we should always aim to reduce our consumption. Unfortunately it's all too easy to minimize the costs and impacts of recycling raw materials and packaging (when they are actually recycled, because the waste sorting instructions in France have been extremely simplified to maximize the collection of waste that is actually recyclable, even if it ends up with mixed with junk that is not). But hey! Recycling is still a start.

... which is why I find it heartbreaking when I see that it's still something we struggle with today. Like our civilizations fails to make simple baby steps. It's not hard, people! It has been specifically dumbed-down, and still you put your bottles and cans in the garbage bin when there's a recycling container two. meters. away. I've become hyper-sensitive to this particular topic in the last few months, having both temporarily moved to the city and having too much time on my hands (not that I made any progress in the things that matter to me, but that's a rant for another time) so when I walked the streets I picked up the litter and sorted it in the appropriate collection bins whenever I wasn't in a hurry (and sometimes even then, because I'm bad at prioritizing tasks). You know, leaving the place as clean as I would like to find it, being a good hummingbird, that sort of thing. But sure enough, there was as much of it the next day and sometimes it depressed me badly.

I was also infuriated by a place I stayed where I was told I couldn't put food packaging in the recycling bins because it might smell bad. So they had ridiculously small, unlabeled recycling containers that clients were forbidden to use. And they didn't seem to realize that it was at best inefficient, at worst actually illegal. I think a factor of my indignation was the fact that since the beginning of the year, cities are finally required to provide a way to process biodegradable waste... but they don't, because they allegedly aren't ready, and there's no fine for not complying.

[Draconi Redfir]

to be fair, things like food-packaging cardboard and paper bags should be composted, not recycled.

My local recycle depot had a big sign (of Woody from Toy Story of all things, not sure why) that says "Absolutely no food cardboard".

Been sure to dump pizza boxes and the like into the compost ever since.



Edit: A "Bendy and the ink machine" song just came on, so hecc. new hot take.


"Bendy and the Ink Machine" was more interesting when the premise was "Literal cartoons drawn onto paper pulled themselves off the page and into reality as revenge for their neglect"


Instead we get "Magic machine turns human souls into monsters" ... again... Yaaawwwnnn, heard that story already. Moving on please, NEXT!


Seriously wish people would stick with the concepts they're presenting us with. Or at the very least come up with some more unique ideas.

Honestly i kinda felt the first Five Nights at Freddy's more interesting when i understood the animatronics as "malfunctioning machines" too. The "Human souls possessing them" thing kind of killed all the wonder and mystery to it.

[Peelee]

And the least impact on the consumer too. Recycling allows you to reduce your environmental impact without becoming some kind of an ascetic

Also, to come back to this, there's a middle ground between getting the latest funko pop to grow your collection and being an ascetic. And even then, this rebuttal is basically "yes, we destroyed the planet, but for a glorious moment we created wealth for the shareholder mild diversions of brief, fleeting personal entertainment."

Yeah, I'm sure micro-plastics invading literally all food that exists now was totally worth the figurine that comes with the deluxe game pre-order package.

to be fair, things like food-packaging cardboard and paper bags should be composted, not recycled.

My local recycle depot had a big sign (of Woody from Toy Story of all things, not sure why) that says "Absolutely no food cardboard".

Been sure to dump pizza boxes and the like into the compost ever since.

Aye, and that's even when such things are made out of compostable things to begin with! I have to basically cut off cashiers when i go shopping to ask for paper bags if i didn't bring my own because they'll shove that in plastic faster than you can imagine. Even if it doesn't need to be! Bagged at all! If I'm going through the checkout and the only thing i have is a box of fried chicken from the deli, which has a handle built into it already, then why the **** are you trying to put that in a plastic bag?!? Or, even if im at a place that only uses plastic (which i go out of my way to avoid whenever possible), when they put things in a bag by itself. Those few seconds you're saving me from carrying things from my car to the house are not ****ing worth burning the goddamned planet!

Sorry. I'm making this a bit too consequential. I'll stop.

[Mx.Silver]

And the least impact on the consumer too. Recycling allows you to reduce your environmental impact without becoming some kind of an ascetic

"Avoid buying things that'll just end-up getting thrown in the bin" is a pretty far cry from any remotely reasonable definition of 'ascetism'. Even before considering the 'prioritising longer-lasting/more repairable/more energy-efficient things' side of it, which is typically a long-term net benefit from the purchaser's side of things.

[Draconi Redfir]

the sad truth is that it's hard to not buy things that end up in the bin, when companies only PRODUCE things that end in the bin.

I would love it if all my meals came in compostable containers. but until the producers start actually shipping them in such, then i'm kinda SOL.

[Peelee]

the sad truth is that it's hard to not buy things that end up in the bin, when companies only PRODUCE things that end in the bin.

I would love it if all my meals came in compostable containers. but until the producers start actually shipping them in such, then i'm kinda SOL.

I'm not complaining about that (well, I am, but not as intensely). I'm complaining about completely useless things that are purely decorative at best, or single-use consumables that are only for entertainment, as quick examples.

[Batcathat]

This discussion reminds me of when I was traveling somewhere by train and had pre-ordered a breakfast box that they sold onboard. It contained a pretty standard Swedish breakfast and the labeling made kind of a big deal about how eco-friendly it was. Now, it's entirely possible that the food itself was made to the highest of environmental standards... but the impression was kinda ruined by the fact that each component (and there were probably like 6-8 of them) came in its own little plastic packaging.

To be fair, I'm sure at least some of it might've needed it to stay fresh, but it was a pretty bad visual, at least.

[Bohandas]

This discussion reminds me of when I was traveling somewhere by train and had pre-ordered a breakfast box that they sold onboard. It contained a pretty standard Swedish breakfast and the labeling made kind of a big deal about how eco-friendly it was. Now, it's entirely possible that the food itself was made to the highest of environmental standards... but the impression was kinda ruined by the fact that each component (and there were probably like 6-8 of them) came in its own little plastic packaging.

To be fair, I'm sure at least some of it might've needed it to stay fresh, but it was a pretty bad visual, at least.

Wow! That's like something out of a cartoon!

[Ionathus]

My wife was shopping the other day and I asked her to pick up some Sensodyne (i.e. enamel repair) toothpaste for my poor little garbage teeth.

She sent back a photo of the toothpaste aisle and a text saying "help"

Y'all, there's like twenty different types of Sensodyne. That's too many types.

[halfeye]

My wife was shopping the other day and I asked her to pick up some Sensodyne (i.e. enamel repair) toothpaste for my poor little garbage teeth.

She sent back a photo of the toothpaste aisle and a text saying "help"

Y'all, there's like twenty different types of Sensodyne. That's too many types.

Here, most of the toothpaste brands are doing that, I agree it's a bad thing.

[NichG]

I mean, it's not like the Joker was the first one to say that. I don't think there's anything wrong with people trying to get paid for what they do, if people don't think it's worth it than they just don't pay, and there's still a massive amount of free (whether financed by ads or done entirely for free) content on the internet.

Nothing against any individual person who manages to figure out how to make ends meet this way, but collectively it has a sort of side-effect of erasing the boundary between hobby and commerce. And then that makes actions that would otherwise be neutral or positive for others to take now have to be considered harmful since its not just competing within a hobby, its threatening livelihoods... Like, if someone makes a great mod for Skyrim, that's good. But if someone, say, makes a free mod that basically implements the stuff that some paid mod was implementing... If we can commit to saying 'this is a hobby, any money you make is incidental, and defending your business model is unjustifiable in a hobby space' then that'd be fine. But practically speaking, once someone has come to rely on something for their livelihood, of course they have to defend it.

Not to mention the general way that passive value extraction from users (like ads or selling data as opposed to 'here's a service but you must pay me for it') tends to just degrade the experience of things or even create risks or harms that are hard to just refuse or even pay to fully remove if you'd want to (and when you do, you're often paying off the platform rather than even paying the content creator directly...) This also applies to situations where hobbyist activities become optimized for sake of making money better - which sort of gets back to the point about why we don't see a new wave of niche sites trying to figure out better ways to be like we had in the past.

I get enough of this now that I have the space to garden for the first time in my life. I've got a friend who is like 'don't grow that thing no one has heard of here, you should grow this other thing and sell it and make some money!'. Call it hustle culture or gig culture or whatever - but that general pattern is what I'd object to, rather than any individual's own decisions in their particular circumstances.

Another example, there's an experimental social media site that was started up recently by a researcher interested in novelty search, non-objective-based evolution and learning, stuff like that - basically started as an experimental test of their ideas and ideals. After a few months, independent of any communication from the person starting it, there were hundred-post threads about 'how should this new social media site be monetized?' spontaneously arising from the users.

[veti]

Not to mention the general way that passive value extraction from users (like ads or selling data as opposed to 'here's a service but you must pay me for it') tends to just degrade the experience of things or even create risks or harms that are hard to just refuse or even pay to fully remove if you'd want to (and when you do, you're often paying off the platform rather than even paying the content creator directly...) This also applies to situations where hobbyist activities become optimized for sake of making money better - which sort of gets back to the point about why we don't see a new wave of niche sites trying to figure out better ways to be like we had in the past.

It changes the relationship between the person who creates the content and the consumer. It goes from being a peer-to-peer, here's-some-data-take-it-for-whatever-it's-worth-to-you sort of relationship, to a provider/customer one. Where the customer feels - understandably, if they've paid money - that they have rights, particularly the right to complain and redress when the service fails in some way, and so now the provider has an affirmative duty to maintain the service.

I get enough of this now that I have the space to garden for the first time in my life. I've got a friend who is like 'don't grow that thing no one has heard of here, you should grow this other thing and sell it and make some money!'. Call it hustle culture or gig culture or whatever - but that general pattern is what I'd object to, rather than any individual's own decisions in their particular circumstances.

I like "hustle culture", I'd like to see that adopted. But Google says it already means something quite different, so I'm afraid that's off the table. "Gig culture" is closer, but not as evocative.

Another example, there's an experimental social media site that was started up recently by a researcher interested in novelty search, non-objective-based evolution and learning, stuff like that - basically started as an experimental test of their ideas and ideals. After a few months, independent of any communication from the person starting it, there were hundred-post threads about 'how should this new social media site be monetized?' spontaneously arising from the users.

Oh, that's... yeah, something I'd certainly expect. Everyone thinks they know how to run everyone else's business. Partly it's the Dunning-Kruger effect causing them to simply overlook the real constraints that apply to action in real life, partly it's the displacement effect that seems to affect, as far as I can tell, every single person in the entire world who's ever had a job, and which means they would prefer to talk about anyone else's business other than their own rather than focus on what they're actually paid to do.

Case in point, right here.

[DavidSh]

I like "hustle culture", I'd like to see that adopted. But Google says it already means something quite different, so I'm afraid that's off the table. "Gig culture" is closer, but not as evocative.

I'll pretend to believe that "hustle culture" is an old subset of "disco culture" (...do the Hustle!!). And "Gig culture" something about horse-drawn carriages.

[Bohandas]

Nothing against any individual person who manages to figure out how to make ends meet this way

That is where you and I differ on this issue. It's my fervent hope that AI puts them all out of business

Nothing against any individual person who manages to figure out how to make ends meet this way, but collectively it has a sort of side-effect of erasing the boundary between hobby and commerce. And then that makes actions that would otherwise be neutral or positive for others to take now have to be considered harmful since its not just competing within a hobby, its threatening livelihoods... Like, if someone makes a great mod for Skyrim, that's good. But if someone, say, makes a free mod that basically implements the stuff that some paid mod was implementing... If we can commit to saying 'this is a hobby, any money you make is incidental, and defending your business model is unjustifiable in a hobby space' then that'd be fine. But practically speaking, once someone has come to rely on something for their livelihood, of course they have to defend it.

Bethesda is actually on my Steam blacklist because of the paid mod scheme

Nothing against any individual person who manages to figure out how to make ends meet this wayNot to mention the general way that passive value extraction from users (like ads or selling data as opposed to 'here's a service but you must pay me for it') tends to just degrade the experience of things or even create risks or harms that are hard to just refuse or even pay to fully remove if you'd want to (and when you do, you're often paying off the platform rather than even paying the content creator directly...) This also applies to situations where hobbyist activities become optimized for sake of making money better - which sort of gets back to the point about why we don't see a new wave of niche sites trying to figure out better ways to be like we had in the past.

I get enough of this now that I have the space to garden for the first time in my life. I've got a friend who is like 'don't grow that thing no one has heard of here, you should grow this other thing and sell it and make some money!'. Call it hustle culture or gig culture or whatever - but that general pattern is what I'd object to, rather than any individual's own decisions in their particular circumstances.

Another example, there's an experimental social media site that was started up recently by a researcher interested in novelty search, non-objective-based evolution and learning, stuff like that - basically started as an experimental test of their ideas and ideals. After a few months, independent of any communication from the person starting it, there were hundred-post threads about 'how should this new social media site be monetized?' spontaneously arising from the users.

The world is going to Hell in a handbasket

I get enough of this now that I have the space to garden for the first time in my life. I've got a friend who is like 'don't grow that thing no one has heard of here, you should grow this other thing and sell it and make some money!'. Call it hustle culture or gig culture or whatever

I prefer to see it as a client-side aspect of en****ification. A gradual degradation of posting users which roughly mirrors the degradation of the host site in traditional en****ification.