Rainbow Warsnake: What am I Missing?

[pumpkaaboo]

Anyone who knows about the Rainbow Servant prc knows how powerful it is, especially for the fixed list arcane casters (beguiler, dread necromancer, warmage). Getting spontaneous casting off the entire cleric list with no restrictions is almost certainly enough to elevate any class to tier 1, assuming you can get 9th level spells, which these classes can.

But whenever I see it talked about, it is almost always in the context of the rainbow warsnake build (with warmage as a base). Warmage seems to be universally regarded as the weakest of the three, so... why? Sure, it gains the most benefit due to having the worst list, but wouldn't rainbow servant be much better on a stronger base, such as beguiler?

"Rainbow Warsnake" is a name for a specific build, while to my knowledge beguiler/RS and dread necro/RS don't have their own names. I read a couple handbooks for these classes, and the warmage one spent a good amount of its word count gushing over how strong rainbow servant is, while the beguiler handbook didn't even mention it. What is going on here? Why is the least powerful class/prc combo* being talked about the most?

*I haven't looked that deeply into the spell lists, but it seems possible that dread necro/RS might be the least powerful instead, since the cleric list has so many necromancy and general minion-granting spells already. But it's not like said list is lacking in ways to deal damage, so my point still stands.

[Zancloufer]

I think because of how weak the Warmage is that it gets discussed the most. Beguiler and Dread Necromancer are just much more powerful base classes. I mean just look at their capstones;

Beguilers Ignore SR if attacking from invisibility/against a flatfooted foe.
Dread Necros gain the Litch Template.
Warmage can deal max damage on a spell once a day.

It's pretty much this bad for the entire class. Warmages get 1/day cute bonuses, while Dread Neco and Beguiler get more powerful abilities that are also not limited in uses/day.

As a Warmage taking the Rainbow Servant PrC, if you follow the text not table, you trade three mediocre 1/day Metamagics, two evocations not on your list and medium armour no inflicting ACF, for a massive amount of new spells known. So such if you DM allows for full casting there is almost nothing lost in exchange for a lot gained.


TLDR; Dread Necro or Beguiler 20 is very viable and there is a real trade off in class features if you Prc out. Warmage gains almost nothing past level 1 in terms of class features. Maybe Sudden Empower or using Advanced Learning for Wings of Cover is nice, but you get those both by level 6 before you PrC out anyway so. . .

[Troacctid]

Well, for starters, rainbow servant is highly overrated to begin with. It's really easy to overestimate how high a level you're going to get to in a campaign, but in reality, most of the time you will never hit that capstone and it straight up will not factor in at all, which means what you're really looking at is the extra domains and detect evil. And extra domains and detect evil are good, but also, to some extent, like...whatever, you know? You gave up advanced learnings and bonus metamagic for this. It's like the definition of a fair trade. Plus, the whole typo issue tends to be really contentious with DMs! If you can't get them on board with the full progression, you can toss the build out the window because it's suddenly just a worse mystic theurge.

But mostly, the big concern is how long it takes for the capstone to come online, if it ever comes online at all. And so you need to evaluate the build with an eye towards "What does this look like for me during the first nine levels of the class?"

For the beguiler, the domains are pretty good, actually, and I think you get more utility out of the Good and Air domains than the warmage does. But you also lose out on 4 skill points per level, which is a real cost. The beguiler skill list is really good, and giving up 4 skills hurts a lot, especially in those six dead levels where all you're getting is casting and it's just worse than your base class. Woof. Feels bad. I'm not a big fan of it.

For dread necromancer, the big thing you're giving up is class features. Losing out on the level 7 summon familiar and the level 8 undead mastery is simply not worth it, and you should not give them up just for a domain or two. There is something to be said for getting those magic circles to go with your planar binding, so it's not like it's bad, but I think you give up on the capstone, basically, and do a delayed entry if you take the class at all.

For warmage, the only class features you're missing out on are a single advanced learning, a 1/day Sudden Empower, and that's basically it. (Medium armored mage and Sudden Enlarge are nothing.) You don't lose any skill points, and actually you even improve your class skill list, I think. So the opportunity cost is very low in a way that is not the case for the other two, and it becomes much more a competition with other prestige classes like escalation mage and incantatrix rather than, oh, is this even better than my base class, you know?

Now, once you hit that capstone, it's going to break everything wide open, and it's great for all three classes. But that's not until level 16. The campaign is over at level 16. You're lucky if you even get to take a victory lap. Not to mention you're high enough level that everything else is already so broken, it barely matters that you're breaking it more, if that makes sense.

TL;DR rainbow servant is only exciting for dread necromancer and beguiler if you overvalue the capstone. Once you get practical and look at how the rest of your career is going to play out, it's just not very attractive to them compared to sticking with their base class.

[AvatarVecna]

Anyone who knows about the Rainbow Servant prc knows how powerful it is, especially for the fixed list arcane casters (beguiler, dread necromancer, warmage). Getting spontaneous casting off the entire cleric list with no restrictions is almost certainly enough to elevate any class to tier 1, assuming you can get 9th level spells, which these classes can.

But whenever I see it talked about, it is almost always in the context of the rainbow warsnake build (with warmage as a base). Warmage seems to be universally regarded as the weakest of the three, so... why? Sure, it gains the most benefit due to having the worst list, but wouldn't rainbow servant be much better on a stronger base, such as beguiler?

"Rainbow Warsnake" is a name for a specific build, while to my knowledge beguiler/RS and dread necro/RS don't have their own names. I read a couple handbooks for these classes, and the warmage one spent a good amount of its word count gushing over how strong rainbow servant is, while the beguiler handbook didn't even mention it. What is going on here? Why is the least powerful class/prc combo* being talked about the most?

*I haven't looked that deeply into the spell lists, but it seems possible that dread necro/RS might be the least powerful instead, since the cleric list has so many necromancy and general minion-granting spells already. But it's not like said list is lacking in ways to deal damage, so my point still stands.

Discussion centers around it cuz it's the classic example. As for handbooks, might just be a few things combined, but main thing is probably that RS is best for Warmage, out of the three.

Beguiler is probably just T1 in its own right, or at least a good number of people have argued such. And if one is looking for options to power up a Beguiler, Rainbow Servant takes 10 levels, while Shadowcraft Mage takes 3 to really take off.

Dread Necromancer is already a great minionmancer in its own right, and might have the most trouble of the three with the alignment/special prereqs for RS.

Meanwhile, Warmage is playing a fighter who uses magic spells instead of a bow for direct damage. It's a step removed from arcane archer.

I think slapping rainbow servant onto the three of them puts all three at about the same level of power, but it's the biggest increase for Warmage. Beguiler is powerful in its own right. So is Dread Necromancer. But if you're playing Warmage, Rainbow Servant is one of your few paths to playing with the big boys.

Well, for starters, rainbow servant is highly overrated to begin with. It's really easy to overestimate how high a level you're going to get to in a campaign, but in reality, most of the time you will never hit that capstone and it straight up will not factor in at all, which means what you're really looking at is the extra domains and detect evil.

[...]

Now, once you hit that capstone, it's going to break everything wide open, and it's great for all three classes. But that's not until level 16. The campaign is over at level 16. You're lucky if you even get to take a victory lap. Not to mention you're high enough level that everything else is already so broken, it barely matters that you're breaking it more, if that makes sense.

TL;DR rainbow servant is only exciting for dread necromancer and beguiler if you overvalue the capstone. Once you get practical and look at how the rest of your career is going to play out, it's just not very attractive to them compared to sticking with their base class.

Yeah this is also a large part of it. I think there's some dumb cheese where you can cheat your way in at lvl 1 (I've seen people talk about Warmage 1/RS 10), but even lvl 11 is pretty late in the game.

[pumpkaaboo]

I'm not going to respond to each post individually, but you've all made really good points. I hadn't considered how having a strong base class might make a prc less enticing,. Thank you all for explaining this to me!

[Troacctid]

To be clear, warmage is very strong! It can play with the big boys just fine on its own. Rainbow servant is only strong for warmages because it's cheap. It's on par with Ruathar for ease of entry, and it gives full casting progression without any downgrade to the chassis, so it's easy to slot it into any build at any level with no special preparation and still have it be an upgrade to the base class. That's not true for beguilers or dread necromancers—they both stand to lose more by prestiging in general, just as a feature of how they (and the prestige classes around them) are designed, and so all prestige classes are mostly just worse for them across the board than they would be on a class like wizard, sorcerer, or warmage where the power is 99% concentrated in the spellcasting itself (plus maybe a couple of frontloaded class features that you can grab before prestiging).

[Anthrowhale]

I think there's some dumb cheese where you can cheat your way in at lvl 1 (I've seen people talk about Warmage 1/RS 10)

You need L3 arcane spells at ECL 1 which require flaws to pick up the necessary number of appropriate feats.

[Biggus]

To be clear, warmage is very strong! It can play with the big boys just fine on its own.

This reminds me: how did the Warmage jump a whole tier on your "Why each class is in its tier" thread? Well after people stopped posting there it suddenly leaped from 3.17 to 2.2 (some other classes moved a bit too, but none anywhere near as much as that one).

[Zancloufer]

This reminds me: how did the Warmage jump a whole tier on your "Why each class is in its tier" thread? Well after people stopped posting there it suddenly leaped from 3.17 to 2.2 (some other classes moved a bit too, but none anywhere near as much as that one).

I mean compare it to Sorcerer. It has d6 HD, can wear light armour, and more spells known. Sure 80% of the Warmage spells are"Do xd6 elemental damage", but they have a few CC and SoD spells. Warmage is a straight upgrade from a blasting Sorcerer, if only because you have multiple elements to choose from for each spell level.

Sue you can't take a lot of the "really good" utility/CC/Summon spells, but you also get at least twice the spells known and they are front loaded. Something people overlook in actual play is how much it sucks to only have one know for a spell level and Warmage comes swinging with 7~13 out the gate at every new spell level.

It's not like their spell selection is bad either, starting at 6th level they start getting actually good non damaging spells.

[Biggus]

I mean compare it to Sorcerer. It has d6 HD, can wear light armour, and more spells known. Sure 80% of the Warmage spells are"Do xd6 elemental damage", but they have a few CC and SoD spells. Warmage is a straight upgrade from a blasting Sorcerer, if only because you have multiple elements to choose from for each spell level.

Sue you can't take a lot of the "really good" utility/CC/Summon spells, but you also get at least twice the spells known and they are front loaded. Something people overlook in actual play is how much it sucks to only have one know for a spell level and Warmage comes swinging with 7~13 out the gate at every new spell level.

It's not like their spell selection is bad either, starting at 6th level they start getting actually good non damaging spells.

My question was aimed specifically at Troacctid, I wasn't saying "the Warmage shouldn't be tier 2" but "why did the Warmage suddenly jump a tier long after (public) voting had finished?".

However, since you bring it up: there's some truth in what you say, but it's important to remember that tiers measure versatility as well as power, and Warmage is right down there with Healer as one of the least versatile full casters in the game. The Eclectic Learning ACF from PHB2 helps a bit with that, but they still only get a total of four spells from it by level 20.

Also, one extra HP per level and the ability to use armour and shields doesn't come close to making up for the spells Sorcerers have access to that they don't; at low levels Mage Armour and Shield can give a Sorcerer a higher AC than the Warmage when they have time to buff (scrolls are only 25gp each if you don't want to use spells known for them). And there are just SO MANY great spells the Sorcerer has access to that the Warmage doesn't; Grease, Mirror Image, Glitterdust, Wind Wall, all the teleportations and polymorphs and dispels, Contingency, Mind Blank, Time Stop...

So as far as I can see the Warmage's only big advantages over the Sorcerer are that they gain more spells known and they're all available as soon as you can cast spells of that level. This is not trivial, but a Warmage is far more vulnerable than a moderately well-built Sorcerer, and far less versatile.

What are "CC" spells?

[Zancloufer]

However, since you bring it up: there's some truth in what you say, but it's important to remember that tiers measure versatility as well as power, and Warmage is right down there with Healer as one of the least versatile full casters in the game. The Eclectic Learning ACF from PHB2 helps a bit with that, but they still only get a total of four spells from it by level 20.

Also, one extra HP per level and the ability to use armour and shields doesn't come close to making up for the spells Sorcerers have access to that they don't; at low levels Mage Armour and Shield can give a Sorcerer a higher AC than the Warmage when they have time to buff (scrolls are only 25gp each if you don't want to use spells known for them). And there are just SO MANY great spells the Sorcerer has access to that the Warmage doesn't; Grease, Mirror Image, Glitterdust, Wind Wall, all the teleportations and polymorphs and dispels, Contingency, Mind Blank, Time Stop...

So as far as I can see the Warmage's only big advantages over the Sorcerer are that they gain more spells known and they're all available as soon as you can cast spells of that level. This is not trivial, but a Warmage is far more vulnerable than a moderately well-built Sorcerer, and far less versatile.

What are "CC" spells?

CC is a short hand for "Crowd Control". Basically anything that makes it hard for enemies to take actions and/or move. Stuff like Grease, Glitterdust, Sleet Storm and Black Tentacles.

While the Warmage is limited in their list, they are no where near as bad as Healer. Not only they have about twice the spells known, almost every healer spell is, well healing or negating status effects. Sure Healer gets Gate at the end, but so does Truenamer and no one thinks they are good.

I think your overestimating how easy it is to keep up both Shield and Mage Armour for every encounter at levels 1-4. Scrolls eat up to much WBL and the action cost is significant. Warmage just rocks an extra 5-16 AC for free and while 1~2 HP per level isn't much it just put you over some one-shot thresholds at low (1-4) levels.

Finally their is a Warmage ACF that let's them add ANY Wizard/Sorcerer spell to their spells know, not just Evocation ones. I mean it's only one for 1st, 3rd, 5th and 8th level (as those are the highest levels you can cast at the time you get them) but you can still add things like Grease, Wings of Cover, Teleport and Planar Binding (for example) to your spells known.

[Anthrowhale]

On the Warmage vs. Sorcerer debate, my impression is that:
(a) The Warmage floor is higher than the Sorcerer floor for blasting purposes.
(b) The Warmage ceiling is somewhat lower than the Sorcerer ceiling for blasting purposes.
(c) The Sorcerer is far more capable of nonblasting tricks.

I believe (a) and (c) are noncontroversial(?), so (b) is the interesting one. The key insight is that in order to scale with hit points you really need to specialize in an element with fire being the obvious choice. This negates the Warmage's elemental rainbow advantage. But what about resistance? Well, it does not matter much for levels 1-4, and at level 5 Sorcerers can access the planar Sorcerer ACF converting half of damage to force. And why actually lower? Consider the cumulative effect of (Greater) Arcane Fusion, Arcane Spellsurge, Celerity, and Mark of the Enlightened Soul.

[pabelfly]

The key insight is that in order to scale with hit points you really need to specialize in an element with fire being the obvious choice.

I'd say that you have to specialize in a very small pool of spells that make up for eachother's deficiencies, because you only want to take Arcane Thesis a few times. As an example of this, my previous Sorcerer build's two main spells were Wings of Flurry and Orb of Force. Wings of Flurry is a short-ranged area spell whose downsides are a saving throw and spell resistance: yes, Orb of Force is a medium-range spell that doesn't allow saving throws and ignores spell resistance, but is only single-target.

Fire does have a metamagic that allows you to damage even enemies immune to Fire, but so does Cold and Thunder. You could make any of those work for a blaster build with similar effectiveness, IMO.

[Troacctid]

My question was aimed specifically at Troacctid, I wasn't saying "the Warmage shouldn't be tier 2" but "why did the Warmage suddenly jump a tier long after (public) voting had finished?".

Do you mean, why did the numbers change? Non-public voting that happened later on, basically.

As far as why warmage in particular shifted upwards so dramatically...I think at the start of the project (where fixed-list casters were the very first thread), the specter of JaronK's tier list (which heavily underrated the warmage) loomed really large over tier discussions and dragged down some of the ratings artificially (not just for warmage but for the other fixed-listers as well). Over time, informal criteria like "Mid-levels should get the most weight" and "Combat power should be evaluated as multiple related proficiencies rather than treating 'combat' as one monolithic thing that you are either good or bad at" emerged that ended up being especially favorable to the warmage, especially relative to the sorcerer.

Also, I'm more interested in the warmage, so I paid more attention to it, which in hindsight almost certainly introduced sampling biases. That's on me. I'm a writer, not a data scientist.

On the Warmage vs. Sorcerer debate, my impression is that:
(a) The Warmage floor is higher than the Sorcerer floor for blasting purposes.
(b) The Warmage ceiling is somewhat lower than the Sorcerer ceiling for blasting purposes.
(c) The Sorcerer is far more capable of nonblasting tricks.

I believe (a) and (c) are noncontroversial(?), so (b) is the interesting one. The key insight is that in order to scale with hit points you really need to specialize in an element with fire being the obvious choice. This negates the Warmage's elemental rainbow advantage. But what about resistance? Well, it does not matter much for levels 1-4, and at level 5 Sorcerers can access the planar Sorcerer ACF converting half of damage to force. And why actually lower? Consider the cumulative effect of (Greater) Arcane Fusion, Arcane Spellsurge, Celerity, and Mark of the Enlightened Soul.

I think (b) and (c) both come with big caveats. For (b), the sorcerer does have a higher ceiling for blasting, but only at higher levels, and honestly, not by a lot (most of blasting optimization is feats and magic items that both classes can use equally). In the mid-level range, it's very competitive—they both have different strengths and weaknesses, and I don't know that there even is a clear winner. It depends a lot on your build, and on your criteria. For (c), I think the caveat is that the sorcerer has to give up ground on blasting in order to excel in other areas. You can't be as good at direct damage as a warmage of equivalent optimization and also have a meaningful bag of noncombat tricks left over, because sorcerers just don't have enough spells known to do it all, at least not until very high levels, which I guess runs you into the same caveat as (b).

If the tier list only looked at the level 16–20 range, it would be easy to say that the sorcerer class more or less dominates the warmage class in power level. But how much do those high levels really deserve to be weighed, when most campaigns will never make it anywhere close to that far? If you emphasize the level 4–12 range instead, the head-to-head looks very different. It all comes down to your rubric.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Beguiler gets six skill points/level, extremely good choices for advanced learning, and its spell list is phenomonel in general. It doesn't need to suffer ten levels of stunted skill progression and miss out on greater shadow evocation/conjuration to gain access to the cleric spell list. The opportunity cost is just too much.

Dread Necromancer has some severe alignment conflicts with the published version of Rainbow Servant. Adaptations of the prestige class are possible (I'm a fan of a phoenix adaptation with the good, fire, and renewal domains), but those are entirely up to your DM so it can't be counted on. There are tons of other prestige classes that cater to the DN kit, which is extremely good through the 8th class level, so again the opportunity cost for investing ten levels before there's any significant payoff is just too much.

Warmage, on the other hand, has very few useful prestige classes to take due to the inherent limitations of the class. Staying single-classed is even worse. The opportunity cost for sinking ten levels into RS is negligible. Most would even recommend early-entry tricks to start taking it at 2nd level, as levels in the base class are just that worthless. For the other two, RS is a quirky option that doesn't really mesh well with the base class and/or doesn't pay off before most games come to an end. For Warmage, it's a godsend that totally redeems what would otherwise be one of the worst spellcasting classes in the entire edition.

[pabelfly]

For Warmage, it's [Rainbow Servant] a godsend that totally redeems what would otherwise be one of the worst spellcasting classes in the entire edition.

Warmage is decent at blasting, and blasting is a perfectly good strategy for a mage. If you don't like blasting that's fine, but that doesn't make Warmage bad. There are so many bad casting classes, and Warmage isn't anywhere near the wosrt.

[Anthrowhale]

I'd say that you have to specialize in a very small pool of spells that make up for eachother's deficiencies, because you only want to take Arcane Thesis a few times. As an example of this, my previous Sorcerer build's two main spells were Wings of Flurry and Orb of Force. Wings of Flurry is a short-ranged area spell whose downsides are a saving throw and spell resistance: yes, Orb of Force is a medium-range spell that doesn't allow saving throws and ignores spell resistance, but is only single-target.

The real challenge for blasters is in the ECL1 to ECL5 range. In these early levels there are few spells/day, the damage these spells output is anemic by default compared to enemy hit points, and the options available to optimize with are limited. At these early levels, the most important ways to boost damage to threatening levels is via caster level escalation, and it turns out that [fire] spells are most easily escalate. In this range, an optimized Warmage is roughly equivalent to an optimized Sorcerer, with (for example) a Warmage's edge being roughly equivalent to a Sorcerer's Fire Sphere.

Once you reach level 6, Practical Metamagic Ocular Spell (for example) makes it relatively easy to deal sufficient damage.

Fire does have a metamagic that allows you to damage even enemies immune to Fire, but so does Cold and Thunder. You could make any of those work for a blaster build with similar effectiveness, IMO.

There's a significant advantage to the Planar Sorcerer ACF in that it doesn't require two feats (Searing Spell and Arcane Thesis) which are quite precious commodities.

I think (b) and (c) both come with big caveats. For (b), the sorcerer does have a higher ceiling for blasting, but only at higher levels, and honestly, not by a lot (most of blasting optimization is feats and magic items that both classes can use equally). In the mid-level range, it's very competitive—they both have different strengths and weaknesses, and I don't know that there even is a clear winner. It depends a lot on your build, and on your criteria.

We've discussed this a time or two. The caveat is "when is the switch over"? Assuming optimized build, I believe that it's ECL1-5 where there is rough parity and ECL6+ where the sorcerer blaster takes superiority. In particular, I don't know how to deal 50 damage in the opening round with ranged touch attacks 4 times per day using a Warmage at level 6. A Sorcerer though can do it. (Note that the Warmage can't just mimic on two counts: no Fire Sphere and no way to access Knowledge[Dungoneering] without a feat.)

For (c), I think the caveat is that the sorcerer has to give up ground on blasting in order to excel in other areas. You can't be as good at direct damage as a warmage of equivalent optimization and also have a meaningful bag of noncombat tricks left over, because sorcerers just don't have enough spells known to do it all, at least not until very high levels, which I guess runs you into the same caveat as (b).

I agree with this although again the crossover points might differ. I think you can make a good blasting sorcerer using ~4 feats and if you really want to break-the-game-even-more-than-a-warmage, perhaps 6 or 7 feats are required. Still, there are a fair number of sorcerer/wizard spells that don't require significant feat support to be quite useful.

If the tier list only looked at the level 16–20 range, it would be easy to say that the sorcerer class more or less dominates the warmage class in power level. But how much do those high levels really deserve to be weighed, when most campaigns will never make it anywhere close to that far? If you emphasize the level 4–12 range instead, the head-to-head looks very different. It all comes down to your rubric.

Part of the rubric here in my discussion above differing from the tier lists is 'optimized'. Comparing at optimization ceiling, I think it's ECL1-5 Warmage ~= Sorcerer while at ECL6+ Sorcerer pulls away. As the optimization level declines, the crossover point gets higher and higher until at an unoptimized point warmage actually does fine in comparison to sorcerer even until ECL20. Warmage really does have a higher floor.

[Troacctid]

In particular, I don't know how to deal 50 damage in the opening round with ranged touch attacks 4 times per day using a Warmage at level 6. A Sorcerer though can do it. (Note that the Warmage can't just mimic on two counts: no Fire Sphere and no way to access Knowledge[Dungoneering] without a feat.)

You should be able to do it pretty easily with Pearl of the Waves and +1 caster level. Quickened ice storm (5d6+Int damage) plus two scorching ray beams (8d6+Int damage) is 45.5 + 2x Int damage to a single target and 17.5 + Int damage to the rest of the area, and it's not limited to the first round of the encounter. It costs some gold, but look! I saved you three feat slots! (Sorcerers can do this too, although they need a different water spell such as geyser in place of ice storm, and I'd personally look to replace Fiery Spell with Corrupt Spell + Stone Socket of Gruumsh for better synergy.) If you splurge on a glyph seal, you can also potentially toss in 5d8 + Int for a move-action fireburst.

Having higher single-target damage isn't the same as being better at blasting, though. Being able to hit an area is huge for your DPR when you're fighting multiple enemies. Each extra target you hit effectively adds +100% to your damage output. If you want to even pretend to hold it up against a warmage, you've gotta at the very least get Boccob's rolling cloud in there.

[Biggus]

@OP: apologies if we've derailed your thread, I get the impression you'd already had your main questions adequately answered though?

CC is a short hand for "Crowd Control". Basically anything that makes it hard for enemies to take actions and/or move. Stuff like Grease, Glitterdust, Sleet Storm and Black Tentacles.

Thank you.

I think your overestimating how easy it is to keep up both Shield and Mage Armour for every encounter at levels 1-4. Scrolls eat up to much WBL and the action cost is significant. Warmage just rocks an extra 5-16 AC for free and while 1~2 HP per level isn't much it just put you over some one-shot thresholds at low (1-4) levels.

1) I'll agree that at level 1-2 the cost of scrolls is an issue but by level 3 it's already trivial, especially since the vast majority of Sorcerers in my experience have Mage Armour as a spell known early on so only need one for Shield. As to the action cost, Mage Armour is usually cast ahead of time (especially if it's a spell known, not from a scroll); with Shield, it depends how good your team's scouting/senses/divination are whether you typically need to cast it in combat or not.

2) Where are you getting "an extra 5-16 AC for free" from? Warmages can only use light shields and light armour at low levels, so that's +5AC. But even later on they only get medium armour, for a total of +6. If you're including enhancement bonuses, the cost of those isn't trivial, especially if they want special abilities on them: they're not getting those for free, they're paying for them.

Finally their is a Warmage ACF that let's them add ANY Wizard/Sorcerer spell to their spells know, not just Evocation ones.

I'm aware of that, I mentioned it by name in my last post...

Do you mean, why did the numbers change? Non-public voting that happened later on, basically.

As far as why warmage in particular shifted upwards so dramatically...I think at the start of the project (where fixed-list casters were the very first thread), the specter of JaronK's tier list (which heavily underrated the warmage) loomed really large over tier discussions and dragged down some of the ratings artificially (not just for warmage but for the other fixed-listers as well). Over time, informal criteria like "Mid-levels should get the most weight" and "Combat power should be evaluated as multiple related proficiencies rather than treating 'combat' as one monolithic thing that you are either good or bad at" emerged that ended up being especially favorable to the warmage, especially relative to the sorcerer.

Also, I'm more interested in the warmage, so I paid more attention to it, which in hindsight almost certainly introduced sampling biases. That's on me. I'm a writer, not a data scientist.

Thank you for explaining.

I just reread your "why the Warmage is tier 2" list and I did notice one somewhat misleading statement in it: "advanced/eclectic learning are natively available to get you the powerful high-level spells that aren't automatically on your list". You get exactly one high-level spell through advanced/eclectic learning, one mid-level and two low-level.

[Anthrowhale]

You should be able to do it pretty easily with Pearl of the Waves and +1 caster level. Quickened ice storm (5d6+Int damage) plus two scorching ray beams (8d6+Int damage) is 45.5 + 2x Int damage to a single target and 17.5 + Int damage to the rest of the area, and it's not limited to the first round of the encounter. It costs some gold, but look! I saved you three feat slots! (Sorcerers can do this too, although they need a different water spell such as geyser in place of ice storm,

Yeah, throwing in items moves the goalposts a bit. Jet of Steam seems more plausible than Geyser since it deconflicts spell slot usage for the Sorcerer.

Assuming an Int of 16 for the Warmage, you get 51.5 single target damage. (It's SR:Yes instead of SR:No but that usually doesn't matter at ECL 6.)
The Sorcerer with Jet of Steam instead manages 59 damage, assuming the target makes a Refl save half the time.

So, with the item-shifted goalposts, it still seems the optimized Warmage starts falling behind the optimized Sorcerer at ECL6.

and I'd personally look to replace Fiery Spell with Corrupt Spell + Stone Socket of Gruumsh for better synergy.)

That's a reasonable alternative.

Having higher single-target damage isn't the same as being better at blasting, though. Being able to hit an area is huge for your DPR when you're fighting multiple enemies. Each extra target you hit effectively adds +100% to your damage output. If you want to even pretend to hold it up against a warmage, you've gotta at the very least get Boccob's rolling cloud in there.

And, there's space for it. Furthermore, it would deal 9d6 damage out of the gate. I still like Fireball for range though.

[Troacctid]

1) I'll agree that at level 1-2 the cost of scrolls is an issue but by level 3 it's already trivial, especially since the vast majority of Sorcerers in my experience have Mage Armour as a spell known early on so only need one for Shield. As to the action cost, Mage Armour is usually cast ahead of time (especially if it's a spell known, not from a scroll); with Shield, it depends how good your team's scouting/senses/divination are whether you typically need to cast it in combat or not.

I personally would consider shield to be a low-op spell, unless you're an abjurant champion. It's very inefficient for the action cost.

Thank you for explaining.

I just reread your "why the Warmage is tier 2" list and I did notice one somewhat misleading statement in it: "advanced/eclectic learning are natively available to get you the powerful high-level spells that aren't automatically on your list". You get exactly one high-level spell through advanced/eclectic learning, one mid-level and two low-level.

I guess it depends whether you count 5th-level spells as high-level. They are in the top half of spell levels.

Yeah, throwing in items moves the goalposts a bit. Jet of Steam seems more plausible than Geyser since it deconflicts spell slot usage for the Sorcerer.

Assuming an Int of 16 for the Warmage, you get 51.5 single target damage. (It's SR:Yes instead of SR:No but that usually doesn't matter at ECL 6.)
The Sorcerer with Jet of Steam instead manages 59 damage, assuming the target makes a Refl save half the time.

So, with the item-shifted goalposts, it still seems the optimized Warmage starts falling behind the optimized Sorcerer at ECL6.

Is [+1 item, -3 feats] moving the goalposts closer or farther away in this metaphor? If we subtract the same three feats from the sorcerer, it brings them down to 5d4 + 5d8 for an average of 35 damage, or back up to 45 if you also change out dragonblooded sorcerer to aligned spellcaster (since the class skill isn't needed if you take Ocular Spell out of the equation). Or, if we add an equivalent +3 feats to the warmage, surely that's enough to close a measly 8-point gap. Let's see...if the warmage takes Bloodline of Fire, Elemental Spellcasting, Fiery Spell, and Arcane Thesis (scorching ray) as her four feats, that should boost the damage up to 5d6 + Int from ice storm and 12d6 + 12 + Int from a triple scorching ray, for a total of 71.5 + 2x Int on average. That's actually better damage output than your ocular lesser orb even if you take away the Pearl of the Waves, I think.

And, there's space for it. Furthermore, it would deal 9d6 damage out of the gate. I still like Fireball for range though.

In an ideal world, you would have both! Warmages get to have both.

[Chronos]

Sure, Warmages are pretty good blaster casters. They're maybe not quite the best, but at most optimization levels, they're at least in the same ballpark as the best. But I would dispute that blasting is strong enough to put a class at anything higher than tier 3, at most, even if you are really good at it.

[Anthrowhale]

Let's see...if the warmage takes Bloodline of Fire, Elemental Spellcasting, Fiery Spell, and Arcane Thesis (scorching ray) as her four feats, that should boost the damage up to 5d6 + Int from ice storm and 12d6 + 12 + Int from a triple scorching ray, for a total of 71.5 + 2x Int on average. That's actually better damage output than your ocular lesser orb even if you take away the Pearl of the Waves, I think.

That hits the mark, so I'll concede parity in the ECL1-7 range. If you want to go for ECL8 that would be interesting. A few thoughts:

1. Between 50 points of SR:No Fire/Force damage in 2 hits and 57 points of SR:Yes Fire damage in 3 hits from half the spell slots, you could go either way. One is more efficient while the other is more sure.
2. This is a good illustration of how anemic damage => specialization => Warmage's spells known count isn't that meaningful under optimization.
3. I tend to consider Arcane Thesis[Scorching Ray] overspecialized. It does hit hard here, but the damage dice don't scale with level further and the let-down for a Warmage facing fire resistance/immunity or significant SR/magic immunity is pretty steep.
4. The Sorcerer could do the same except swap Elemental Spellcasting for Fire Sphere + Corrupt Spell + Stone Socket of GrumshEmpower Spell to increase the damage to ~6581 Force/Unholy/Fire damage.

In an ideal world, you would have both! Warmages get to have both.

And a blaster sorcerer plausibly would as well.

(Minor edit, realized that Empower is better than Corrupt)

[pabelfly]

Sure, Warmages are pretty good blaster casters. They're maybe not quite the best, but at most optimization levels, they're at least in the same ballpark as the best. But I would dispute that blasting is strong enough to put a class at anything higher than tier 3, at most, even if you are really good at it.

It's pretty easy to add non-blasting spells to a Warmage. The class has the Eclectic Learning ACF that lets you pick any Sorcerer or Wizard spell (albeit at +1 spell level). Besides that, there are plenty of feats to add spells to the Warmage's spell list, as well as some prestige classes that improve the spell list too.

Just because your main role is to blast, you're not exclusively stuck in this role with Warmage.

[Troacctid]

That hits the mark, so I'll concede parity in the ECL1-7 range. If you want to go for ECL8 that would be interesting.

Well, the level 6 build is already beating your 49 damage benchmark for level 8, and has higher DPR over two turns than the level 8 build in your thread—since you're leaning on Ocular Spell for a round 1 nova, your output is cut in half on subsequent rounds. So I feel like in this really specific case, all I have to do is sit back and coast while your sorcerer spends their only 4th-level spell known on mark of the enlightened soul and my warmage gets black tentacles, blast of flame, wall of fire, and every orb spell. But for the sake of argument, let's say she retrains Elemental Spellcasting (no longer important now that she's at the damage cap) into Maximize Spell so that she can put those new 4th-level slots to use. That's a cool 101.5 + 2x Int damage for the fire and ice combo, and we can boost that by another +27 once a day, and it's still not limited to the first round.

A few thoughts:

1. Between 50 points of SR:No Fire/Force damage in 2 hits and 57 points of SR:Yes Fire damage in 3 hits from half the spell slots, you could go either way. One is more efficient while the other is more sure.
2. This is a good illustration of how anemic damage => specialization => Warmage's spells known count isn't that meaningful under optimization.
3. I tend to consider Arcane Thesis[Scorching Ray] overspecialized. It does hit hard here, but the damage dice don't scale with level further and the let-down for a Warmage facing fire resistance/immunity or significant SR/magic immunity is pretty steep.
4. The Sorcerer could do the same except swap Elemental Spellcasting for Fire Sphere + Corrupt Spell + Stone Socket of Grumsh to increase the damage to ~65 Force/Unholy/Fire damage.

1. Spell resistance is less of a problem when you have +5 caster level above your HD. Fire resistance applies equally to both builds. The warmage has alternative spells to audible to in case of spell immunity or fire immunity or just being out of Close range.
2. No it isn't?
3. I think you'll find the damage dice on lesser orb of fire don't scale further either.
4. Both builds could do even better if you spent 3k on an empowered spellshard. I feel like this is turning into me workshopping your build for you. Try the aligned spellcaster variant! Have you considered Dalamar's lightning lance? It would go great with a veil of storms. Which dragonpact are you thinking of taking?

And a blaster sorcerer plausibly would as well.

Not at level 6. You only get one.

[Anthrowhale]

Well, the level 6 build is already beating your 49 damage benchmark for level 8, and has higher DPR over two turns than the level 8 build in your thread—since you're leaning on Ocular Spell for a round 1 nova, your output is cut in half on subsequent rounds. So I feel like in this really specific case, all I have to do is sit back and coast while your sorcerer spends their only 4th-level spell known on mark of the enlightened soul and my warmage gets black tentacles, blast of flame, wall of fire, and every orb spell. But for the sake of argument, let's say she retrains Elemental Spellcasting (no longer important now that she's at the damage cap) into Maximize Spell so that she can put those new 4th-level slots to use. That's a cool 101.5 + 2x Int damage for the fire and ice combo, and we can boost that by another +27 once a day, and it's still not limited to the first round.

Maximized Fiery Scorching Ray + Pearl of Waves Ice Storm.

That's decent. The sorcerer using a similar strategy could be at Fiery Spell + Empower Spell + AT[Scorching Ray] + Corrupt Spell + stone socket of grumsh dealing (12d6+12(Fiery Spell)+12ish(Stone Socket))x2 (Empower + MotES) = 132 Fire/Force/Unholy damage, and then you could use Pearl of the Waves for a further boost(MotES consumes Swift action). I'm not sure it's worth it since this exceeds average hit points at CR 8 by a substantial margin.

1. Spell resistance is less of a problem when you have +5 caster level above your HD.

Agreed, but it still matters some. My mental model of SR is that it's typically set for 50% failure and occurs at a rate of about 5%/level, so this would set you at 25% failure perhaps 30% of the time. So, think of it as a 7.5% discount on damage at ECL6.

Fire resistance applies equally to both builds.

It doesn't because the sorcerer deals force damage which the warmage does not. Half damage might seem unappealing, but if the specialized Warmage goes for a lightning bolt (for example) you're looking 21+Int damage (with a Refl/2), which is less than half damage.

The warmage has alternative spells to audible to in case of spell immunity or fire immunity or just being out of Close range.

Sure, but they aren't as effective as SR:No half force damage.

2. No it isn't?

All 4 of your feats are chosen to maximize damage on Scorching Ray and the damage of every other spell is substantially lower. How is that not specialization?

3. I think you'll find the damage dice on lesser orb of fire don't scale further either.

Yeah, that's why that particular build throws in Orb of Fire later.

4. Both builds could do even better if you spent 3k on an empowered spellshard. I feel like this is turning into me workshopping your build for you. Try the aligned spellcaster variant! Have you considered Dalamar's lightning lance? It would go great with a veil of storms. Which dragonpact are you thinking of taking?

It seem inevitable that when considering optimized builds you'll tweak things in various ways. That particular build wasn't optimized for damage, but rather for minimal resource usage with adequate damage. In any case, Empowered Spellshard is of course quite strong and Lightning Lance + Veil of Storms is a nice combo if you can escalate caster level to 10. Maybe via Energy Substitution[Fire].

Not at level 6. You only get one.

Sure. That's a very particular property of level 6. The sorcerer is probably looking into prestige classes at that point.

My summary view is that L1-5 blaster casters have to specialize to deal adequate damage with a fire specialization being the easiest. At L6+ this becomes easy and a further degree of specialization is plausibly unnecessary since damage becomes excessive.

Sure, Warmages are pretty good blaster casters. They're maybe not quite the best, but at most optimization levels, they're at least in the same ballpark as the best. But I would dispute that blasting is strong enough to put a class at anything higher than tier 3, at most, even if you are really good at it.

It may be worth consideration that Warmages can cast any particular spell one level lower than maximum by getting UMD on list (... Escalation Mage looks convenient), taking Channel Charge at ECL9, and then picking up the appropriate staff. That's a great deal of versatility directly addressing the weakness of a Warmage at a significant but potentially acceptable cost.

[Darg]

Born of 3 thunders and immunity to either lightning or sonic and you've got a half sonic attack. Lord of the uttercold makes it half negative energy. Half force damage isn't exactly that necessary.

It should also be noted that arcane disciple instantly puts 9 spells on the warmage's spell known list. The wisdom for DC doesn't really matter because you want to shore up your utility, not your combat effectiveness. Arcane preparation allows you to stockpile these spells using unused slots from the day before.

[Troacctid]

It doesn't because the sorcerer deals force damage which the warmage does not. Half damage might seem unappealing, but if the specialized Warmage goes for a lightning bolt (for example) you're looking 21+Int damage (with a Refl/2), which is less than half damage.

If your spell deals 20 fire damage and 20 force damage, and my spell deals 40 fire damage, and we both attack an enemy with fire resistance 20, both of our attacks will have their damage reduced by the exact same amount, is what I'm saying. I mean, technically, twin orbs get hit by resistance twice and triple rays get hit by resistance three times, so in this specific instance that's not really the case, but in general, force-charged energy is not very good at allowing big-damage spells to bypass fire resistance. It's more proof against fire immunity, or for helping you deliver smaller damage spells like frost breath.

Anyway, you know what's more common than enemies with fire resistance? Encounters where you fight multiple enemies at once. The minimal warmage dominates the minimal sorcerer in those encounters. Sure, you can learn fireball to keep up, but then why are you even a sorcerer? If you're just going to take a bunch of warmage spells as spells known, you're going to end up as a worse version of a warmage, doing the exact same thing but with fewer options. Do you really think having Knowledge (dungeoneering) as a class skill is more valuable than stinking cloud, sleet storm, ice storm, lightning bolt, fire shield, gust of wind, and ring of blades combined? By RAW, Ocular Spell doesn't even work with orbs. They're not rays.

All 4 of your feats are chosen to maximize damage on Scorching Ray and the damage of every other spell is substantially lower. How is that not specialization?

Three of the four feats apply just fine to other spells. Her CL-boosted fireball should regularly be hitting for like 100 damage without metamagic. And don't forget that I beat your numbers with just one feat at the start, so adding more feats was only ever racking up the score.

I'm going to circle back, because I think this discussion is proving my earlier point.

On the Warmage vs. Sorcerer debate, my impression is that:
(a) The Warmage floor is higher than the Sorcerer floor for blasting purposes.
(b) The Warmage ceiling is somewhat lower than the Sorcerer ceiling for blasting purposes.
(c) The Sorcerer is far more capable of nonblasting tricks.

I believe (a) and (c) are noncontroversial(?), so (b) is the interesting one. The key insight is that in order to scale with hit points you really need to specialize in an element with fire being the obvious choice. This negates the Warmage's elemental rainbow advantage. But what about resistance? Well, it does not matter much for levels 1-4, and at level 5 Sorcerers can access the planar Sorcerer ACF converting half of damage to force. And why actually lower? Consider the cumulative effect of (Greater) Arcane Fusion, Arcane Spellsurge, Celerity, and Mark of the Enlightened Soul.

I think (b) and (c) both come with big caveats. For (b), the sorcerer does have a higher ceiling for blasting, but only at higher levels, and honestly, not by a lot (most of blasting optimization is feats and magic items that both classes can use equally). In the mid-level range, it's very competitive—they both have different strengths and weaknesses, and I don't know that there even is a clear winner. It depends a lot on your build, and on your criteria. For (c), I think the caveat is that the sorcerer has to give up ground on blasting in order to excel in other areas. You can't be as good at direct damage as a warmage of equivalent optimization and also have a meaningful bag of noncombat tricks left over, because sorcerers just don't have enough spells known to do it all, at least not until very high levels, which I guess runs you into the same caveat as (b).

The sorcerer's ceiling is a little higher because of ACFs like aligned spellcaster and impromptu metamagic, as well as easier access to a handful of overtuned higher-level spells like lightning lance and wings of flurry, and eventually, in the very late game, broken 8ths and 9ths. But it comes at a cost, which is that they don't have the ability to pivot the way a warmage does. There is much more counterplay available against the sorcerer. What if your target isn't within Close range? What if they duck behind cover? What if they're invisible? What if they're resistant to fire? What if there are three of them? What if two of them have closed into melee with you? None of that counterplay stops a warmage because they can shrug and pivot to a different damage spell, or to an area control/denial strategy. But a sorcerer either needs to sink additional build resources into solving those problems or else sigh and accept that orb of fire isn't The Answer this time. Essentially, the sorcerer takes the "If you can't stop me, you're dead" approach, and the warmage takes the "Bold of you to think you could ever stop me" approach. Different strengths and weaknesses.

I want to point this out. In your build, you made a deliberate choice to reduce your potential damage output by taking Force-Charged Energy as a 2nd-level known spell instead of scorching ray. You could have been doing 8d6 (28) damage at levels 4 and 5, up to 24d6+24 (108) at level 6 with Arcane Thesis, and it would have used all the same build resources: two spells known, four feats, one familiar, one sphere. Why? Because you understood that it was worth it to give up some potential at the top end in order to have that hedge against the obvious counterplay to your strategy. Well, that's what the warmage suite is about! It's about having answers to their answers. It's about covering so many of the angles that no one can defend against all of them at once.

And of course, as we've seen, the vast majority of optimization tools for blasting are equally available to both classes, and the ones that are exclusive to the sorcerer are, frankly, pretty obscure. Spells that aren't in the PHB or SC. ACFs buried in Dragon Magazines. Racial feats hidden in archived web articles. Quirky interactions between an ACF in one book and a ritual in another. It's hard to build a sorcerer who can fully outblast a warmage, and even if you do, the warmage will still outperform you in other areas.

[Anthrowhale]

I mean, technically, twin orbs get hit by resistance twice and triple rays get hit by resistance three times, so in this specific instance that's not really the case

Right, that's what I meant. Resistance 20 vs. an expected 17 ish damage per ray leaves half force looking good.

It's more proof against fire immunity, or for helping you deliver smaller damage spells like frost breath.

Yes, or Scorching Ray.

Anyway, you know what's more common than enemies with fire resistance? Encounters where you fight multiple enemies at once. The minimal warmage dominates the minimal sorcerer in those encounters. Sure, you can learn fireball to keep up, but then why are you even a sorcerer?

I think you are underrating half force damage a bit. The sorcerer generally does more damage to the fire immune than the warmage via alternating damage flavor.

The primary reason to play a Sorcerer blaster instead of a warmage though would be to benefit from some nonblasting spells.

By RAW, Ocular Spell doesn't even work with orbs. They're not rays.

Eh? Ocular Spell applies to:

Only ray spells and spells with a target other than personal can be cast as ocular spells.

Orbs are "spells with a target other than personal".

Three of the four feats apply just fine to other spells. Her CL-boosted fireball should regularly be hitting for like 100 damage without metamagic.

I don't think it's unreasonable to call fire-enhancing feats 'specialization'. It's more narrow than for a specialist mage for example.

The sorcerer's ceiling is a little higher because of ACFs like aligned spellcaster and impromptu metamagic, as well as easier access to a handful of overtuned higher-level spells like lightning lance and wings of flurry, and eventually, in the very late game, broken 8ths and 9ths. But it comes at a cost, which is that they don't have the ability to pivot the way a warmage does. There is much more counterplay available against the sorcerer. What if your target isn't within Close range? What if they duck behind cover? What if they're invisible? What if they're resistant to fire? What if there are three of them? What if two of them have closed into melee with you? None of that counterplay stops a warmage because they can shrug and pivot to a different damage spell, or to an area control/denial strategy. But a sorcerer either needs to sink additional build resources into solving those problems or else sigh and accept that orb of fire isn't The Answer this time. Essentially, the sorcerer takes the "If you can't stop me, you're dead" approach, and the warmage takes the "Bold of you to think you could ever stop me" approach. Different strengths and weaknesses.

Some of these points are good, but some are not. For example, the warmage suffers more when the target is resistant to fire. I realize this is counterintuitive, but the cumulative effect of optimizing damage from anemic to sufficient for fire spells makes other flavors of damage deal less than half. Also, when there multiple targets, the math of encounter levels suggests they'll tend to have significantly less hit points than a single monster. Also, if the target is invisible, sorcerers at least have see invisible on the class list, and they can leverage their class list in potent ways via scrolls for example.

The valid points I see are:
a) Not close Range.
b) Duck behind cover.
c) Multiple targets sometimes.
Fireball is a nice choice for all three.

I want to point this out. In your build, you made a deliberate choice to reduce your potential damage output by taking Force-Charged Energy as a 2nd-level known spell instead of scorching ray.

There is no specified L2 spell taken at character level 4 in that build sketch, so it easily could have been Scorching Ray. Agreed though, the goals of that build differed.

And of course, as we've seen, the vast majority of optimization tools for blasting are equally available to both classes, and the ones that are exclusive to the sorcerer are, frankly, pretty obscure. Spells that aren't in the PHB or SC. ACFs buried in Dragon Magazines. Racial feats hidden in archived web articles. Quirky interactions between an ACF in one book and a ritual in another. It's hard to build a sorcerer who can fully outblast a warmage, and even if you do, the warmage will still outperform you in other areas.

The majority are applicable to both, I agree. The sorcerer though has other strengths, except perhaps very early on (ECL1-3).

Just to outline where I think optimized sorcerer and optimized warmage are at present:

Warmage @ECL6 has Bloodline of Fire, Elemental Spellcasting[fire], Corrupt Spell, Arcane Thesis[Scorching Ray], Stone Socket of Grumsh, 2 Empower Spellshards for scorching ray, and lots of pearl-of-the-waves for ice storms. Baseline damage is 81+Int Unholy/Fire damage+7+Int bludgeoning damage+10.5 cold damage. All told that uses an L3+L2 slot to deal 104.5 Unholy/Fire/Cold/Bludgeon damage.
Against Fire Immune use the same routine to deal Baseline damage is 40.5+Int/2 Unholy damage+7+Int bludgeoning damage+10.5 cold damage ~= 62 Unholy/Cold/Bludgeon damage.
Against clusters/at range use Fireball for 9d6~=31.5 Refl/2 Fire damage. (You can't also use Ice Storm because you don't have enough L3 slots to sustain for 4 encounters.)
Against SR: eat the probability that the spell fails to penetrate noting the benefit of +5 caster level and the rarity of SR at this level.

Sorcerer @ECL6 has Aligned Spellcaster[Evil], Fire Sphere, Bloodline of Fire, Fiery Spell, Split Ray, Arcane Thesis[Scorching Ray], Jet of Steam, Scorching Ray, Planar Sorcerer 5 ACF, and Fireball for spells, Stone Socket of Grumsh, 2 Empower Spellshards for scorching ray, 2 empower spellshards for Jet of Steam, an array of scrolls, and lots of pearl-of-the-waves. Baseline damage is (16d6+16(Fiery spell)+16(Stone Socket))*1.5(Empower Spell) = 132 Fire/Force + Quickened Jet of Steam (5d4+5(Stone Socket))*1.5 (Empowered)=26 Fire/Force Refl/2. In total that's an L1 and an L3 slot dealing an expected 151 fire/force damage.
Against fire immune use the same routine for 75.5 damage.
Against clusters/at range use Fireball for 9d6+9(Stone Socket)=40.5 Refl/2 fire/force damage.
Against SR: eat the probability that the spell fails to penetrate noting the benefit of +5 caster level and the rarity of SR at this level.

The sorcerer in this case has 3 unspecified L1 spells which for the sake of discussion might be Charm Person, Silent Image, and Nerveskitter. The warmage also benefits from other warmage spells although typically alternative flavors of damage are of negligible utility since they deal less damage than the baseline routine. I think that means: L1 True Strike, Accuracy. L2 Continual Flame, Fire Trap, Pyrotechnics. L3 Fire Shield, Flame Arrow, Gust of Wind, Ring of Blades, Sleet Storm, Stinking Cloud. The sorcerer's array of scrolls can cover many of these in a one-off fashion. The Warmage also has an L1 and an L3 spell from Advanced Learning, with the L3 spell being Boccob's Rolling Cloud and the L1 spell perhaps Jet of Steam to provide a backup for Ice Storm if you run out of 3rd level slots.

Edits: Swapped Enervate for Split Ray, added some discussion of Warmage Advanced Learning.

[Troacctid]

The primary reason to play a Sorcerer blaster instead of a warmage though would be to benefit from some nonblasting spells.

Okay, but in order to compete with the warmage's blasting abilities, you've made it so that your level 6 sorcerer literally has no 2nd or 3rd level spells known that aren't also on the warmage spell list. If you think your edge is supposed to be in nonblasting spells, maybe you want to rethink that choice?