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Thread: [3.5] Shortspear Optimization
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2010-10-13, 09:16 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
[3.5] Shortspear Optimization
Hi there, Playgrounders!
I am trying to construct a character for a mercenary-themed campaign. I am hoping to be useful in a few aspects to the party, specifically as a mixed melee/ranged spearman who can deal decent damage while still being a functional scout for the party. I have a concept for a fighter/rogue/master thrower, but I was wondering:
Are there any better ways to fill a combat role like this? Specifically, with a better class? I'd like Hide/M.S., Tumble and UMD to be available options.
ToB may be allowed, most other books will be allowed, but I don't want to mess with psionics.
So, GitP, what can you do with a shortspear warrior? Javelins and darts also fit the theme.
Thanks for your time and help!
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2010-10-13, 09:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2010
- Location
- Argonth
Re: [3.5] Shortspear Optimization
Well, one thing I can think of off the top of my head is the Returning enchantment for your shortspear, so that you can get it back without closing to melee range.
Witty sig here nosey, aren't ya?
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2010-10-13, 09:28 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
- Location
- I wish I knew...
- Gender
Re: [3.5] Shortspear Optimization
So You Want To Be A Javizon (but didn't know how to translate Diablo 2 into a D&D 3.5 character)
There's several ways to go about doing this, but in brief:
1) Duskblade. This is for using your channeling through your spear, letting you apply nasty effects when you launch a spear/dart
2) THIS. IS. SPAR... aw shaddup already. Shortspear + Shield. TWF with Improved Shield Bash to be able to duo-wield spear and shield. Get Bashing enchantment on said shield. Best chassis here is going to be a Scout Ranger Swift Hunter build that has a dip in Cloistered Cleric for Travel Devotion.
3) Warblade/Bloodstorm Blade. This is for just being plain nasty with your spear. With Bloodstorm Blade, you can treat your thrown weapon attacks as melee attacks, so you can Power Attack with thrown attacks, and initiate maneuvers. How about tacking on 2d6 Con damage when you chunk that spear? Yea, he can do that. How about ignoring DR and adding a handful of dice on top? Yea, he can do that too.
Rogue is really sub-par here. Option 2 has all your hide/move silently/spot/search/listen needs, if that's the route you want to go.SpoilerQuite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
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2010-10-13, 09:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
- Location
- Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
- Gender
Re: [3.5] Shortspear Optimization
Get gloves of taarnham (or however that's spelled) the vigilant.
Throwing + returning for all your weapons for only 10k.
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2010-10-13, 09:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
- Location
- I wish I knew...
- Gender
Re: [3.5] Shortspear Optimization
I think Stormlord is also designed for spear work, but it requires cleric or druid levels...
SpoilerQuite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us
My homebrew world in progress: Falcora
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2010-10-13, 11:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
- Location
- Cleveland, OH
- Gender
Re: [3.5] Shortspear Optimization
Or Ranger. Mystic Ranger works even better, although the medium BAB is a bit galling for a melee scrapper.
Kobolds actually make some of the best spear-wielders, if the DM allows a quirky reading of their "Slight Build" racial feature (from the Web Extract material). When wielding a tiny-sized longspear, this allows them to treat it as a one-handed reach weapon without a size penalty. This leaves the other hand free to carry a spiked shield.Handbooks:
Shax's Indispensable Haversack, TWF OffHandbook
Builds:
Archon of Nine, Jellobomber, King of Pong, Lightning Thief
Spells:
Druidzilla, Healbot, Gish
Iron Chef:
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2010-10-13, 11:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
Re: [3.5] Shortspear Optimization
Well if you're into throwing, I think Bloodstorm Blade 1 will provide returning for free while Warblades are awesome enough damage wise that shield and spear wouldn't make you any less cool damage wise.
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2010-10-14, 02:08 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
- Location
- Xin-Shalast
- Gender
Re: [3.5] Shortspear Optimization
Mystic Ranger doesn't lose out on BAB from all that I've seen about it.
Loses martial melee weapon proficiencies, certainly, so you'd need to get martial proficiencies from another source or make due with simple weapons only. Thankfully spears are simple weapons, so, no real loss there either, come to think of it.
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2010-10-14, 05:32 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
- Location
- Norway
- Gender
Re: [3.5] Shortspear Optimization
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54160
Brutal Throw (CAdv) = Good.
Hide, MS and UMD complicates things. (You can get tumble from Skilled City-Dweller, if the DM allows it.) Maybe a variant rogue, for the feats?
Get Gloves of Endless Javelins (MIC 194, 7000 gp) ASAP.
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2010-10-14, 08:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2010
Re: [3.5] Shortspear Optimization
Also make sure to pick up the Changeling property for your shortspear. Cheap flat fee to allow you to change between shortspear, spear, and longspear as a swift action when necessary.
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2010-10-14, 10:16 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
Re: [3.5] Shortspear Optimization
Hey, thanks! I like these ideas. I will look into them more and post a build soon.
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2010-10-14, 03:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Gender
Re: [3.5] Shortspear Optimization
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2010-10-14, 03:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Central Kentucky
- Gender
Re: [3.5] Shortspear Optimization
Speaking of wanting to be a Javazon... there are some cheap gloves in MIC that let you throw an infinite amount of force javalins!
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2010-10-14, 05:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2008
- Location
- New Hampshire, USA
- Gender
Re: [3.5] Shortspear Optimization
Normal spears are simple two-handed weapons. I would allow any character with martial training to use one in one hand while also wielding a shield. Emulating the Hoplite concept. Add in the returning magical enhancement and you should be good to go.
--
Tetsubo
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2010-10-14, 05:11 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2010
- Location
- Finland
Re: [3.5] Shortspear Optimization
Quotes:Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.Spoiler
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2010-10-14, 05:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2008
- Location
- New Hampshire, USA
- Gender
Re: [3.5] Shortspear Optimization
But doesn't fit the reality that the spear & shield was quite possibly the most common weapon/armour combination in all of history. I want to be able to emulate history, not play semantics with game mechanics. When the mechanics get in the way, they get changed or tossed.
--
Tetsubo
Deviant Art: http://ironstaff.deviantart.com/
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2010-10-14, 05:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2010
- Location
- Finland
Re: [3.5] Shortspear Optimization
Quotes:Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.Spoiler
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2010-10-14, 05:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
Re: [3.5] Shortspear Optimization
well the trident has a 10ft range increment instead of the 20ft
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2010-10-14, 05:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2010
- Location
- Finland
Re: [3.5] Shortspear Optimization
Quotes:Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.Spoiler
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2010-10-14, 05:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
- Location
- Xin-Shalast
- Gender
Re: [3.5] Shortspear Optimization
d'oh! Serves me right for that. Stormlord (for 1 level dips anyway) is replicateable by the free action +1 force javelins of this item:
At level 2, you get a shock weapon property added onto any spear/javelin type of thing and +1 BAB, which may be more worth it for a jumping out point.
Ranger would get Endurance for free, after all, leaving just Weapon Focus with whatever kind of spear he favored and Great Fortitude to pay for the class. So I'd recommend 1st, 2nd, or 4th for dipping drop points....
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2010-10-14, 06:06 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
- Location
- Freljord
Re: [3.5] Shortspear Optimization
I once did this sort of thing, except for the Hide part, since it was a half-ogre Barbarian/Warblade/Fighter/Bloodstorm Blade/Frenzied Berzerker. Seriously, two-hander that you can throw? Awesome. Getting the returning enhancement is of course a good idea, but otherwise going Swordsage, dipping Warblade or taking Martial Study for Iron Heart Maneuvers, and then going Bloodstorm Blade, is a pretty solid idea. Plus still highly effective in melee as well.
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