New Unearthed Arcana: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue (October 17th)

[Aett_Thorn]

So can the Revived Rogue use his bonus action to Cunning Action, get “sneak attack”, and then Use his Action to Ready an Action to attack and get a second sneak that turn without any resource use at all?

[Coffee_Dragon]

Truck-kun Can't Get Enough of Me so Now I'm Adventuring with My Information Cheat Ability In Another World

[strangebloke]

The Audience with Death feature is mostly a problem because, like all divinations, a player can want to know something the DM hadn't thought of. It's more limited than some, but there are perfectly logical yes/no questions any given dead person ever might know the answer to that the DM just hadn't considered. Unlike most of the more powerful divinations, though, the player gets to do it anytime they make a death save, which means it isn't as easy to prep for

Well, and to be honest, the bigger problem is that the PC can force death saves on himself to get answers. It's not even that cheesy, really. Its the sort of thing you'd see in fiction. "Odin hanging on the tree with a spear in his side" kind of nonsense.

Just seems like too openended an ability.

[Protolisk]

For Audience with Death, yeah, the rogue can get good info from it, but they need to nearly die. There is a chance of death, unless their allies have healing magic (spell slots) or good medicine checks. Checks can still fail, but yes, they could try to cheese a solution to some problem by constantly dying. It's pretty risky, or in the case of healing, costs some spell slots.

[Kane0]

Rune Knight:
Like Truenaming/Truespeech, I feel like this would be better off as a standalone subsystem rather than a subclass. What if an Artificer or Wizard wanted to study and work with Runes? A Goliath cleric of a Giant deity? Have these runes operate using attunement so it isn't a straight power boost.
The runes themselves need a balance and wording pass, notably the Fire rune can be used for 4x Prof with tools when used with Expertise (different wording means double prof bonus added twice).
I like Giant Might, basically being bonus action Enlarge on yourself without concentration.
Defensive Runes 1 + Int is maybe a touch too much bookkeeping than 5e strives for, just + Int should do it, especially since this is at-will
Great Stature growing 3d4 inches really seems like a flavor thing than something that should be in the mechanics like that. It feels out of place. I wouldn't expect my eyes to start glowing just because I levelled up from sorcerer 6 to 7.
Blessing of the Allfather looks good. Good to see this subclass isn't powercreep.

Swarmkeeper
Bonus spells are good, bonus spells for Hunter and Beastmaster when? Could do without Mage Hand though.
Gathered Swarm, i'm not seeing the connection to the force damage here, try poison or something. The 5' random movement is a nice touch though, like Infestation
Writhing Tide is fun
Scuttling eyes doesn't feel very special when anyone with a familiar has been doing the same sort of trick from level 1 and then again at level 7 with Arcane Eye. I think this feature should be replaced with the ability to shapeshift into part of your swarm for a short time.
Swarm of minions is cool but the damage is poor for when you get it. At least the blinded rider and healing are good.

Revived
The concept works much better as a background rather than subclass. Remember the revenant 'race' and undying warlock patron exist too, plus reincarnation and the existence of resurrection magics as potential worldbuilding elements.
Tokens of past lives is good, though perhaps copying from the knowledge cleric
Revived nature is a LOT to hand out at level 3, compare to the shadow sorcerer and invocations required for similar with a warlock.
Bolts from the Grave, okay seriously far too much at level 3, please stop. Take out revived nature entirely and just leave this, it's much more unique and fun.
Connect with the Dead is neat, better than Speak with Dead as a ritual and I like it.
Audience with Death is again neat and I like it. I don't really like the theme being Rogue-locked but within that flavor this fits the bill. You can also use this as a poor mans Commune if you're willing to be knocked to 0 to get it (and given you have advantage on death saves the risk is largely reduced even if you aren't healed up, and healers kits are cheap)
Ethereal Jaunt is great but the wording really needs cleaning up.

Overall, I'm much happier with these compared to the Cleric/Druid/Wizard. Also nice that they aren't just rehashing what has already been done (Revived Rogue gets a pass because the mechanics are pretty unique).

[Luccan]

For Audience with Death, yeah, the rogue can get good info from it, but they need to nearly die. There is a chance of death, unless their allies have healing magic (spell slots) or good medicine checks. Checks can still fail, but yes, they could try to cheese a solution to some problem by constantly dying. It's pretty risky, or in the case of healing, costs some spell slots.

It's not completely broken, which is why it isn't actually in my problems with the class mechanically, but it's one of those things where it stands a fair chance of either halting a game or leaving a player unsatisfied. It's also kind of bad because of how unhelpful it could be. If you don't cheese it, you probably won't use it much and you might only ever get "unknown" even if your DM is prepped for your questions. So it seems like it has a very narrow area of being both satisfying for the player and not a headache for the DM. Which you don't really want out of your only 13th level feature.

[strangebloke]

For Audience with Death, yeah, the rogue can get good info from it, but they need to nearly die. There is a chance of death, unless their allies have healing magic (spell slots) or good medicine checks. Checks can still fail, but yes, they could try to cheese a solution to some problem by constantly dying. It's pretty risky, or in the case of healing, costs some spell slots.

It isn't remotely risky. You bleed yourself to zero, wait 'two rounds' and then get auto-stabilitized with a healer's kit, then dropped back to zero.

[MinimanMidget]

I love the Rune Knight...but I hate the non-rune giant-related features. If its thing is runes, let its thing be runes. Runes are cool, they don't need to tack random giant stuff on as well.

[ProsecutorGodot]

Isn't it super strong that a revived rogue could bonus action hide, shoot their necrotic sneak attack, then ready action to shoot someone for 2x sneak attack every round? I feel like that should be much higher than level 3, or happen Con mod times per long rest

I guess the only downside is that if they employ this strategy trying to use Cunning Action to hide that they would never have the benefits of being hidden beyond their necrotic bolt.

That's about the only downside I can see to just readying an action to attack immediately after you see the next person in initiative begin move.

[Dork_Forge]

Level 17:
Bonus action 30 ft teleport with no limit... kind of mild compared to the other broken here.

As a stand alone feature its kind of cool but eh at such a high level, but they made it part of cunning action. So now you can Nightcrawler it up as much as you want, whilst blasting people (without economy tax) and then you can think of a use for your actual action.

[ThePolarBear]

At a first look: I like them.

It's just the Revived that... sort of feels a bit like "Warlock 2: the return" with the Sneak Attack Bolt on bonus action.

That... that i don't really like.

I also feel like that there might be some "action economy" problems from this. While it is true it is not really a "true" sneak attack, it's an additional ranged option that doesn't cost anything at all to perform other than using the bonus action on something that most rogues would already be doing. It feels like the bonus action itself could become the action, and the action then loses a bit - or a lot - of meaning.

Edit: i also kind of have a thing against "unlimited" teleports without strict usage conditions. But oh well. It is not the first one.

[Benny89]

the longer I read it the more I like Fighter and Rogue. Variant Human PAM GWM Rune Knight would be SICK with runes + his Giant form. Great stuff and a lot of flavour here.

Revived can do some sick stuff like Cunning Action Disengage -> Bolt -> Ready Action (enemy attack ally in melee etc.) and shoot as reaction second time with 2 Sneak Attacks. I want to try it out right now.

I bet more combos for those two are out there but I need to dig more of what you can do with it.

[Rukelnikov]

Adding to the many comparisons, I immediately though Revived was trying to emulate The Nameless One, remembering skills of your "past lives", and personality changing every time you are near death, I was actually expectig the subclass to get some sort of revivify like ability as its capstone.

Aside from fluff (which I like), the subclass is too strong compared to other Rogues, the free SA rider to Cunning Action makes the double SA round the norm for this Rogue, which is a tactic many other builds have to hoop a bit for, and don't generally get it at lvl 3.

And as many have stated before Audience with Death is extremely abusable, I'd limit it to work only on the first time you make a DS in the day, and also think it would be better if it worked when you fail a DS, signifying you getting closer to the dead. However that would be to weak for a 13th level feature.... IDK how I'd leave it, but i'm sure it needs reworking.

Ranger is meh.

Rune Knight, like the fluff, however the runes themselves seem a bit underwhelming for their passives, and a bit strong for their actives. I was expecting something more akin to SKT runes, where you could have the runes in their "pure form" (carved on a gemstone normally), or trace them on an object which would have different properties depending on the object. For example SKT's Ild Rune granted resistance to cold damage and allowed you to ignite objects or extinguish fires within 10 ft of you as an action. You could optionally transfer the rune to a weapon granting it a +1d6 fire damage, or to a suit of armor granting it resistance to cold (I know its not balanced, no reason to transfer the rune to the armor for effectively losing features... but the idea is what I like).

[jaappleton]

DracoKnight pointed this out to me via Twitter

Deurgar Rune Knight

Enlarge via racial spell
Giant Form

You’re now Huge. And I believe this works at level 3.

Huge PC at lv3. Don’t think that’s ever been possible.

If you’ve ever wanted to play The Hulk, here’s your chance.

[Protolisk]

It isn't remotely risky. You bleed yourself to zero, wait 'two rounds' and then get auto-stabilitized with a healer's kit, then dropped back to zero.

If you are in a safe enough place to wait these turns and use healers kit uses at level 13, and subsequently not fear imminent death as they have 1 HP, then you are in a safe enough place for Clerics to do a ritual to call up their god, or wizards to call up a different plane, druids calling up Mother Nature, at literal zero cost other than time. And they've been doing this since level 9, when they get Commune/with Nature/Contact other plane.

[Benny89]

DracoKnight pointed this out to me via Twitter

Deurgar Rune Knight

Enlarge via racial spell
Giant Form

You’re now Huge. And I believe this works at level 3.

Huge PC at lv3. Don’t think that’s ever been possible.

If you’ve ever wanted to play The Hulk, here’s your chance.

Omg...that is AWESOME! :D

[DracoKnight]

Omg...that is AWESOME! :D

I thought so, too

[EdenIndustries]

It seems odd that Rune Knight's runes can't be given to others, no? As an extreme example, at level 15 you can imbue 5 objects per short rest with runes, but they have to be weapons, armour, or shields. Are you packing that much gear yourself? I mean I guess if you just have weapons stowed away that you're not using and still slap runes on them...

[Protolisk]

It seems odd that Rune Knight's runes can't be given to others, no? As an extreme example, at level 15 you can imbue 5 objects per short rest with runes, but they have to be weapons, armour, or shields. Are you packing that much gear yourself? I mean I guess if you just have weapons stowed away that you're not using and still slap runes on them...

A fighter's most restrictive starting gear is chainmail, two marital weapons, and light crossbow. That's already 4 out of 5.

The options for the most items is leather armor, a longbow, a marital weapon and shield, and two handaxes. That's 6 out of 5 needed.

Game expects a level 1 character to have about all the items needed to reach the maximum of 5 runes.

[EdenIndustries]

A fighter's most restrictive starting gear is chainmail, two marital weapons, and light crossbow. That's already 4 out of 5.

The options for the most items is leather armor, a longbow, a marital weapon and shield, and two handaxes. That's 6 out of 5 needed.

Game expects a level 1 character to have about all the items needed to reach the maximum of 5 runes.

Sure...I know a Fighter can carry all that. I guess I'm just balking at the idea of keeping runes on the two handaxes buried in your backpack somewhere and still drawing power from them, versus weapons you're actively using and holding.

[Rukelnikov]

DracoKnight pointed this out to me via Twitter

Deurgar Rune Knight

Enlarge via racial spell
Giant Form

You’re now Huge. And I believe this works at level 3.

Huge PC at lv3. Don’t think that’s ever been possible.

If you’ve ever wanted to play The Hulk, here’s your chance.

This does work, but it has to be done in the opposite order, first Giant Form, then Enlarge spell, since Giant Form doesn't change you from Large to Huge, it sets your size to Large if its smaller, then Enlarge makes you Huge.

[Mikal]

It seems odd that Rune Knight's runes can't be given to others, no? As an extreme example, at level 15 you can imbue 5 objects per short rest with runes, but they have to be weapons, armour, or shields. Are you packing that much gear yourself? I mean I guess if you just have weapons stowed away that you're not using and still slap runes on them...

Who says they can't be given to others?

[EdenIndustries]

Who says they can't be given to others?

All the language says "you". So I suppose you can give them to people, they just won't be able to derive any benefit from it. Unless I'm reading it wrong? But it's a lot of "you can invoke..." "when you hit..." etc.

[GlenSmash!]

A fighter's most restrictive starting gear is chainmail, two marital weapons, and light crossbow. That's already 4 out of 5.

The options for the most items is leather armor, a longbow, a marital weapon and shield, and two handaxes. That's 6 out of 5 needed.

Game expects a level 1 character to have about all the items needed to reach the maximum of 5 runes.

With the right background like soldier or sailor you can get an additional weapon.

[Zevox]

I have to say, I am utterly baffled by that Rogue subclass. I don't get the flavor they're going for - it seems to mix together ideas based on the character having past lives they don't remember but can call on skills from, ideas based on the character being kind-of-but-not-really undead, and based on the character having some sort of special connection with death itself, all of which seem at odds with each other in one way or another. Not to mention that resurrection and reincarnation already work a certain way in D&D by default, and it doesn't include any of this. Plus, well, why is this a Rogue subclass specifically? Or a subclass at all, for that matter? It feels like the flavor belongs on a custom background designed for a very specific character concept, and the abilities would fit better on a Warlock or Cleric with connections to a Death God of one type or another. Kind of seems like a mess to me.

And mechanically, well, Connect With Dead feels awkward in that you only get the random mechanical bonus after you've used your daily casting of the spell, but it's kind of a niche spell you may or may not use on a given day. And that "Audience with Death" ability seems stupidly abuseable if players are willing to just keeping knocking the Rogue out and then healing them after a a failed save or two. And what's even up with the "you can change a personality trait, ideal, bond, or flaw after using this" thing tacked on to the end of it? You can kind of do that any time if it makes sense, it's called roleplaying. Don't even see a thematic reason for it, it's just odd.

Yeah, don't like that one. Rune Knight's kind of cool, though I do wonder if some of those runes aren't a bit out of whack with the others in power terms (Frost and the second Storm, specifically). Also, very minor point, but it seems odd that the Giant Knight feature is basically the Enlarge spell, but gives a 1d6 damage boost instead of that spell's 1d4.

As for Swarmkeeper, eh, I get what they were going for, and there's probably people it would appeal to, but I'm not one of them personally.

[Rynjin]

I'm glad they're finally starting to get creative with class abilities for 5e.

[Sigreid]

It isn't remotely risky. You bleed yourself to zero, wait 'two rounds' and then get auto-stabilitized with a healer's kit, then dropped back to zero.

It isn't risky until you find your party attacked unexpectedly.

And yes, no and unknown doesn't really give you much in the way of new information. It more of allows you to confirm what you already suspect.

[MaxWilson]

I guess the only downside is that if they employ this strategy trying to use Cunning Action to hide that they would never have the benefits of being hidden beyond their necrotic bolt.

That's about the only downside I can see to just readying an action to attack immediately after you see the next person in initiative begin move.

It's worse than that. If you use your Cunning Action to Hide behind total cover, "immediately after" doesn't allow you to move, so your shot is blocked by total cover. Only in rare situations would you be able to both Cunning Action (Hide) and shoot necrotic bolts with the same cunning action. Mostly you'd be Disengaging or Dashing instead.

It isn't remotely risky. You bleed yourself to zero, wait 'two rounds' and then get auto-stabilitized with a healer's kit, then dropped back to zero.

Waiting two rounds is risky because theoretically you could roll at least one natural 1, which counts as two failed death saves. Waiting one round and then getting auto-stabilized is safe, but two rounds will kill you about 1 time in 20 if I'm not goofing up my math guesstimate.

[Beechgnome]

Waiting two rounds is risky because theoretically you could roll at least one natural 1, which counts as two failed death saves. Waiting one round and then getting auto-stabilized is safe, but two rounds will kill you about 1 time in 20 if I'm not goofing up my math guesstimate.

With advantage on the save you are unlikely to roll a 1. 1 in 400. And halfling revived rogues...well they were born lucky I guess.

[J-H]

These all look pretty good. Rune Fighter is kind of boring - I'd rather play an EK - but I'm not a Fighter-guy anyway.

Swarmkeeper looks like a great NPC opponent class. The added versatility should be nice on top of the ranger chassis, so reasonably OK for that too. It's still no Warlock.

The Revived is...interesting. I think I like it. It does invalidate the dual-wielding Rogue, though.
DW: Attack; miss; bonus action attack for a 2nd shot at sneak attack.
Revived: Attack; miss; Cunning action disengage; move away; ranged spell attack for sneak attack damage with a usually-non-resisted element

Bolts from the Grave will be, at best, 1d6 (shortsword) less damage than a normal off-hand attack, while being lower risk and less resisted. I would tune it down to d4s, I think.