June Survey is out. What do you think?

[Rfkannen]

http://sgiz.mobi/s3/D-D-5e-Elements-Survey-5

What do you think? I like that they are awesome for asking us, how much do you this could actualy effect anything? What did you pick? What option are you the least interested in/want the least? What option do you want the most?

ps. Anyone have the list of classes they said? I forgot.

[SharkForce]

depends what you mean by "can we effect anything".

this is useful marketing information for them. if 500 people take the survey and 400 people tell them they want to see bullywug PCs, and 5 people tell them they want kobold PCs, they're going to introduce bullywugs and largely ignore kobolds.

you on an individual basis are unlikely to be the tipping point; they're unlikely to treat it much differently if there were only 399 votes for bullywug, or 6 votes for kobolds. collectively, however, the D&D community definitely has the ability to make them strongly consider making a change. if they think birthright is not a popular setting (which is probably true), but 75% of the people surveyed are excited about birthright... then they're definitely going to push birthright farther up on their priority list.

now, you may look at that and think that your vote doesn't matter at all. that is to some extent true. having said that, there is a lot of difference between 0% and 20% (one of those things is basically "avoid at all costs" and the other is "niche market that should not be a primary focus but is worth considering in some form after the most profitable stuff is done" i would guess, possibly even licensing them out to third parties), and if you just don't vote for the things you like because you assume they aren't the most popular, well, you're pushing the stuff you like closer to 0% which is not a place you want them to be if you also want WotC to ever look at them.

[CantigThimble]

Regardless of how much say people have individually this is still a system in which our desires are directly communicated to the makers of products we want, which can only be a good thing. Personally I voted for spelljammer because I would only really try to bother with a campaign setting if it was really special. I didn't vote for any races because I don't much care for exotic or bizzare character races. I don't even like dragonborn or teiflings.

[GiantOctopodes]

I think they have a Psionics book in the works. Note that Elans, Maenads, Xeph are not on the Races list, and Psions, Soulknives, Wilders, etc are not on the classes list. Basically, other than Dark Sun as a campaign setting, Psionic based options aren't on here at all. Which either means they have no intention of doing it and no interest in whether or not we're interested, or, far more likely in my opinion, don't see the need for polling data regarding it because it's already in the works.

So I'll take it as great news!

[Easy_Lee]

I think they have a Psionics book in the works. Note that Elans, Maenads, Xeph are not on the Races list, and Psions, Soulknives, Wilders, etc are not on the classes list. Basically, other than Dark Sun as a campaign setting, Psionic based options aren't on here at all. Which either means they have no intention of doing it and no interest in whether or not we're interested, or, far more likely in my opinion, don't see the need for polling data regarding it because it's already in the works.

So I'll take it as great news!

I didn't see Acrobats on there. I wish I could be as hopeful.

[Troacctid]

ps. Anyone have the list of classes they said? I forgot.

• Alchemist
• Artificer
• Cavalier
• Hexblade
• Martial Adept (warblade, swordsage, crusader)
• Runepriest
• Samurai
• Scout
• Seeker
• Shaman
• Warden
• Warmage
• None of the above

Personally I'd be psyched if they brought back None of the Above. I played a Human None of the Above 10/Fighter 2 in my very first campaign, and it would be super-nostalgic if I could bring that character over to 5e.

[Easy_Lee]

Personally I'd be psyched if they brought back None of the Above. I played a Human None of the Above 10/Fighter 2 in my very first campaign, and it would be super-nostalgic if I could bring that character over to 5e.

I know that feel.

[pwykersotz]

Personally I'd be psyched if they brought back None of the Above. I played a Human None of the Above 10/Fighter 2 in my very first campaign, and it would be super-nostalgic if I could bring that character over to 5e.

*Sensible chuckle*

[Flashy]

Personally I'd be psyched if they brought back None of the Above. I played a Human None of the Above 10/Fighter 2 in my very first campaign, and it would be super-nostalgic if I could bring that character over to 5e.

Why the Fighter dip?

[MeeposFire]

Why the Fighter dip?

Bonus feats of course why else would anybody take only two levels of fighter in 3e (AD&D combos do not usually use that nomenclature)?

[CantigThimble]

Why the Fighter dip?

Because the coward guacamole smelled kinda old.

[TheOOB]

I'd love to see the some of the races and classes they mentioned. The classes they mentioned are boring, save the martial adepts, who I'd love to see come back.

[T.G. Oskar]

Curious: Cavalier (AD&D 1e Unearthed Arcana) is in, Hexblade (3.5/4Essentials) and even the Martial Adepts (3.5) are in, but no Marshal/Warlord (3.5/4e)? Apparently they're insisting that the Battlemaster is *the* replacement for it, since it wasn't even considered... Heck, even the Artificer, of all classes, is being considered, even if it already had a (nefarious, IMO) treatment in Unearthed Arcana.

Question: in which edition was the Alchemist a class concept? 2e? Otherwise: are we seeing WotC showing a wink at Paizo? (IMO, a WotC-version of the Alchemist, if 3.5 rules still existed, would have been pretty close to the Artificer; if the Artificer is turned into its own class, with Infusions working different from typical magic as Warlock's Pact Magic does (in principle, not in practice), the Alchemist (Savant!) could be a subclass of the Artificer. Still; kinda mystified, since it's not a 1e class...or maybe it is, and I forgot? Gonna lean with the latter; mind's playing tricks on me, since I can swear I saw it once (alongside the Oriental Adventures classes of Courtier, Ninja, Samurai, Shukenja and Yakuza).

[noce]

Sad that Dragon Shaman and Beguiler didn't make it in the list.

[Gwendol]

The arcane trickster kind of covers the beguiler (and spell thief).

[Theodoxus]

Yeah, but Evoker Wizard covers Warmage, so there's really no point to that either.

I agree with OOB. I voted just for the Martial Classes and no races. Do we really need official PC variants for races? Extrapolating out of the MM is easy enough - and monstrous races are nearly 100% of the time used for power options rather than RP ones - from my experience.

Why be a halfling, when you can be a goblin with 10 (now 5) extra move and darkvision? If there were social reasons to not be one, I can see that - but most tables have some level of no-PvP, forced cooperation regardless of class/race/alignment makeup.

There's too many races as is, in my opinion. I'd of been much happier with a generic Human, Elf, Dwarf, and Halfling, with defined racial traits and open attribute allotment (+2 to 1 stat, +1 to 2 stats, player's choice.

Then, maybe a smidge of Pathfinderesque Advanced Race Guide to further customize your subrace. Humans would get Aasimar, Tiefling, Dragonborn and Halforc. Elves get Half, Drow, High, Wood. Dwarves get Mountain, Hill, Rock & Deep Gnome. Halflings get Stout, Lightfoot, and Forest Gnome.

[Steampunkette]

Dark Sun Dark Sun Dark Sun Dark Sun Dark Sun Dark Sun... Ravenloft.

Dark Sun Dark Sun Dark Sun Dark Sun Dark Sun Dark Sun... Planescape.

Dark Sun Dark Sun Dark Sun Dark Sun Dark Sun Dark Sun... Spelljammer.

[KorvinStarmast]

I didn't vote for any races because I don't much care for exotic or bizzare character races. I don't even like dragonborn or teiflings.

Seconded.
I'd like to see Cavalier, Runepriest, and Shaman.
(The discussion on Psionics is elsewhere on this forum.)

Another comment from above ...

There's too many races as is, in my opinion

Agreed, but it appears that wider diversity in character origin is something the game's fans as whole prefer.

[Person_Man]

If anyone feels like doing me a favor, please vote for Spelljammer. I love that setting, ad would love to see it updated to 5E.

On the flip side, I didn't vote for any of the classes. I'm fine with new setting specific races and backgrounds and Feats (for campaign specific things like Dragonmarks). But 3.5/PF soured me on class bloat. Each new class is inevitably more slightly powerful then the classes that came before it, which inevitably leads to the core non-full-caster classes being rendered obsolete. Similarly, I hope that they only publish new spells when they're required for the setting, as they tend to be the largest source of game breaking material. Not just high fantasy plot powers. Just strait up more powerful raw numbers that ruin any semblance of balance for non-full casters).

[EggKookoo]

Yeah, I'm a little timid on additional classes at this point, too. As I said in the comment field in the survey, new classes should be heavily playtested (preferably public), as they have the biggest potential to alter the fundamental feel of the game, for good or bad.

Regarding how they'll use this info, I wouldn't worry about 400 people asking for bullywugs. I produce and analyze surveys like this all the time for my job. If WotC acts like most companies, they just use this information to reinforce ideas they already have. So it's not like they say "oh, BUILD ALL THE BULLYWUGS!" It's more like some of the devs have mused over the idea of adding bullywugs and they're using the survey to see if it's a good idea or not.

Think of the survey as asking "we are thinking about some of these ideas, what do you think?" Not so much "we'll do whatever you vote for."

[KorvinStarmast]

If anyone feels like doing me a favor, please vote for Spelljammer. I love that setting, ad would love to see it updated to 5E.

On the flip side, I didn't vote for any of the classes. .

What, you don't want to play
Junior birdman? (Aarakocra)
Steroid fed barbarians? (Goliaths).
Half elemental brewers? (genasi cream ale)
Extraneous gnomes? (Svirfnoselongs).

I don't either.

At the risk of offending some of our friends here, I could do without Tieflings at all. But it isn't about me.

Flavor is good, but the concern you present I share: each "new and exotic class" tends to be a bit too cool, a bit extra powerful, and leaves the standard archetypes stranded on the Group W bench.

Kind of like what happens to some well balanced champions in LoL when hew champions (Gnar! for example) come out.

For those not sure about brewing and cream ale, this is the reference.

[Ralanr]

What, you don't want to play
Junior birdman? (Aarakocra)
Steroid fed barbarians? (Goliaths).
Half elemental brewers? (genasi cream ale)
Extraneous gnomes? (Svirfnoselongs).

I don't either.

At the risk of offending some of our friends here, I could do without Tieflings at all. But it isn't about me.

Flavor is good, but the concern you present I share: each "new and exotic class" tends to be a bit too cool, a bit extra powerful, and leaves the standard archetypes stranded on the Group W bench.

Kind of like what happens to some well balanced champions in LoL when hew champions (Gnar! for example) come out.

For those not sure about brewing and cream ale, this is the reference.

Eh. Having the options is nice and they have to make it so it goes beyond being a ribbon since if the race has no effect then a lot of people will see no point to it (other tabletops probably don't have this problem. I suspect GURPS doesn't, but I've only read about it. D&D on the other hand has had this engrained since second edition (since 1st had them as classes) so to change it would be changing core for D&D. Whether the core should be changed is a different discussion all together).

Plus some people don't even take abilities into account. I once played with someone who forgot the advantage to saves against magic that gnomes had. He just liked gnomes.

It really falls down to, "don't like, don't play" mentality. Though if someone is playing a race or class you don't like, it's best to take into account their enjoyment as well as your own. It's a group game after all, communication both ways can go a long way.

[Rfkannen]

• Alchemist
• Artificer
• Cavalier
• Hexblade
• Martial Adept (warblade, swordsage, crusader)
• Runepriest
• Samurai
• Scout
• Seeker
• Shaman
• Warden
• Warmage
• None of the above

Ah cool thanks! Gosh I want a runepriest, I think I forgot to check that one, but in hindsight some rune magic would be awesome. Also in hindsight I am not sure why I voted for the scout, seems like it would just basically be a spell-less ranger

actually here is my annalist.

Alchemist- already exists as a wizard school, but it does deserve it's own non-caster class
artificer- same, maybe same class as alchemist
cavalier- really just a fighter path would suffice
hexblade- isn't that what blade-locks are?
martial adepts- God I want these, but it also seems like it might step on battle-masters toes, but I waaaant it!
runepriest- ah hell yeah new magic systems for the win. I really really want this now.
samurai- not really necessary but could make a cool path for some class I suppose. Would rather just have kensei
scout- why was this ever needed?
seeker- I guess a ranger path with more spell casting powers might be cool, not a new class though
shaman- a 4e style one would be awesome, and absolutely nothing like a druid.
warder- isnt that what ancient paladins are?
warmage- isn't this literally just a evocation wizard with a level of fighter? Like seriously is there anything about this class that isn't covered by that?
none of the above- of course this is the best class, the one we need most. I think it should be a full in based caster.


oh also PIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIXIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS SSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! gosh I want pixies.

[EggKookoo]

It really falls down to, "don't like, don't play" mentality.

There's something to be said for cognitive load and perceived penalties, though. Too much splat and the game loses any sense of shape. It starts to look... well... splat-shaped. I hope WotC learned the lessons of 3/3.5e.

Any artist, writer, musician, or the like will tell you that restrictions encourage creativity. Too many options devalues each of those options.

[mephnick]

On the flip side, I didn't vote for any of the classes. I'm fine with new setting specific races and backgrounds and Feats (for campaign specific things like Dragonmarks). But 3.5/PF soured me on class bloat. Each new class is inevitably more slightly powerful then the classes that came before it

You can already see this in the articles they've been putting out for 5e, like swashbuckler and favoured soul. I have no doubt a book of new classes would be an overpowered mess.

[PoeticDwarf]

Darksun?

Yeah, that's just the thing I want for 5e.

[Person_Man]

Also, its a shame we couldn't down-vote ideas. I'd like another opportunity to express how much I hate Kender.

[Inevitability]

I like how there are a lot of 4th edition-inspired options in the survey. It seemed like they had been mostly marketing to 3.5 fans, it's good to see 4e hasn't been forgotten.

[Ralanr]

There's something to be said for cognitive load and perceived penalties, though. Too much splat and the game loses any sense of shape. It starts to look... well... splat-shaped. I hope WotC learned the lessons of 3/3.5e.

Any artist, writer, musician, or the like will tell you that restrictions encourage creativity. Too many options devalues each of those options.

I agree on that opinion, it's one of the positives of not playing a caster (in my opinion. The amount of options I get with spells and my, "save until needed" mentality often slows down my creative process when playing casters. Instead of being versatile, I become bound to my limits that I can clearly see since my effectiveness dwindles immensely when I'm out of slots).

With races though? I think it's the lack of customization within a race that makes it so my creativity isn't dwindled.

Idk. I'm just a fan of dragonborn, though I know races can be broken. My friend's homebrew slime race was a prime example. Making potions with bubbles (alchemist) and kept hiding in cracks in the floor.

[SharkForce]

you know, if the things that you wanted to see were not on that list, or there was something you really wanted to not see, i'm pretty sure that's what the text box at the bottom was for. want to see dragon shaman and it isn't on the list? well guess what, you can just write that in the box at the bottom.