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2020-12-13, 09:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2020
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
Probably. Although I'd quite definitely rank her above Logann, Chuck, Jenny and freakin' Yokyok.
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2020-12-13, 09:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
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2020-12-13, 10:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2020
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
I know, right?
#JusticeForVeldrina!
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2020-12-13, 12:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2017
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
Possible typo: Gontor Hammerfalls entry only reads 'Hammerfall', and he should be listed as deceased.
I'd also argue Veldrina not having an entry while Jenny does is a shocking oversight.Last edited by Riftwolf; 2020-12-13 at 12:38 PM.
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2020-12-13, 01:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
Yokyok was an Linear Guild member there is a lower bar for entry for the others that is likely fair - and on that note I think Grewview should have an entry (we have one for Blackwing and Mr. Scruffy after all).
For that matter to have an adult son Yikyik would seem to have been 12+ from Races of the Dragon, which is listed as one of our sourcebooks for this topic.
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2020-12-13, 04:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2012
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
From the FAQ
Q: Which characters are included in this thread?
(1) All named members of the Order, Team Evil, the Linear Guild, the Order of the Scribble, and the Vector Legion.
(2) Any frequently occurring character, as noted in the Character Appearances thread. Note that this includes Samantha: it was easier to be a common character back when the comic was shorter. We don't unlist characters just because they've died.
(3) Family members of the main characters, as long as we have something to write about them.
*Frequent characters has been renamed to secondary characters, but never updated in the FAQ of this thread.
Edit; I just realized I compared Veldrina to all strips so far, in stead of the strips when she appeared (like Samantha and Jenny). For fairness: Back in 2012 the Frequent character was also 30-60, Veldrina doesn't appear on that list, so even before she entered the comic, the minimal threshold was 30 appearances. Which she never made.
Besides that, I don't have a problem with listing Veldrina, but I do get why there is a line drawn, and why she is excluded.Last edited by Yanisa; 2020-12-13 at 04:49 PM.
Proudly addicted to pointing out where exactly rules can be found.
Countdown to Belkar's death and my follow-up count gives us less then 3 weeks left. Poor Belkar.
Avatar by Akrim.elf
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What effects allow a saving throw?
List of almost all 3.5 skills.
Old PF Initiative Build
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2020-12-14, 12:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2013
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
I think we also excluded her because as the Patreon cameo she's actually somebody's character.
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2020-12-14, 12:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2020
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
The problem is that the line is not drawn with sufficient consistency: Logann (apparently) only has some 4 more appearences than Veldrina (and much less impact), while Chuck and Jenny lag way behind her.
That's a fair point, but I don't think there is a rule against including such characters (mostly since there are no other characters like this).
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2020-12-14, 12:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2013
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
Logann is included in item 4: Family members.
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2020-12-14, 12:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2020
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
Technically, he's listed under family and other characters, as are Chuck and Jenny.
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2020-12-14, 02:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2012
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
Chuck and Jenny are a bit weirder (unless you see Jenny as a significant other for Belkar), but like the Samantha example in the FAQ: It was easier to become a more frequent character earlier in the comic. For example when they started to appear, Bozzok himself also only had 12 appearances. (Also the rules might have been different back then, when there were less characters with 5+ appearances.)
Another factor, I am guessing, is that we didn't know the impact these character would have on the story. In contrast the moment Veldrina was introduced we knew she was a cameo character who would only be very shortly in the comic.
Besides that, one could argue that the Thief Guild, even with small appearance, is a major of Haley's background, including being a large part of the prequel-book. We could even call them her "family", but that is a argument more for Bozzok then any others. (The real question is, why isn't Bozzok listed, but two throw-away henchpersons did make the cut. I might dive in some old discussions later.)
I get why these things have happened, but now years later they stick out. Veldrina will have the same faith when the comic starts to reach numbers as 1500 and possibly 1800, many years from now.Proudly addicted to pointing out where exactly rules can be found.
Countdown to Belkar's death and my follow-up count gives us less then 3 weeks left. Poor Belkar.
Avatar by Akrim.elf
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What effects allow a saving throw?
List of almost all 3.5 skills.
Old PF Initiative Build
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2020-12-14, 03:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2019
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
The actual answer for why Chuck and Jenny were added isn’t the Samantha loophole, it’s that a bit back people felt like putting together some stats for the less important characters to see if we could and we found a decently sized stat block on them. This was like last thread if I remember correctly, if we had enough stats on Veldrina I think we’d probably add her.
Arrrgh, here be me extended sig!
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2020-12-14, 04:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
It seems like there should at least be one link for Chuck and Jenny so you can know who the heck they are.
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2020-12-15, 01:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2012
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
I stand corrected, must have missed that in the last thread.
Anyhow, Metastachydium put up stats for Veldrina, that is what sparked the questions.Proudly addicted to pointing out where exactly rules can be found.
Countdown to Belkar's death and my follow-up count gives us less then 3 weeks left. Poor Belkar.
Avatar by Akrim.elf
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What effects allow a saving throw?
List of almost all 3.5 skills.
Old PF Initiative Build
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2020-12-15, 12:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2015
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- Alamogordo
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
Were Veldrina to have stats, I feel like that block is missing a rather important feat, but then we'd have to consider that Wild Cohort is in play rather than Veldrina just having immense ranks in Handle Animal and a pet Tiger that really shouldn't be able to be a pet.
Characters I've enjoyed playing for more than four sessions:
Falgar the Swiftblade
Revain Sumeth, Whip Fighter Extraordinaire
Malvin Firel, Cleric of Corellon, Destroyer of Undeath
Vongur Dorent, Primeval Champion of Poverty
In defense of the Vow of Poverty
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2020-12-15, 02:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2012
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
There is in D&D no real difference* between a cat and tiger when it comes to handle animal. If we assume the tiger was domesticated by another person*, it would only be a DC 10 in order to command the tiger. We also see she can't always control her tiger. In order to fail she can't have more then a +8 bonus. Which means with 17 charisma she cannot have more then 5 ranks in handle animal.
Also wild cohort is not needed. What the feat does is increase the stats of the tiger (we lack evidence for that) and makes handle animal easier (while we know Veldrina sucks at handle animal). If we would assume wild cohort, she cannot have more then 3 ranks in handle animal.
*Rearing a wild tiger would be a DC 23 and the only time the species of the animal effects the outcome because the DC is based on hit die. Also this requires at least a 1 rank of Handle animal. Assuming extreme luck, anyone with 14 or more charisma could domestic a kitty tiger. Valdrina could have trained her own tiger, and still be able to fail the basic DC 10 to make the tiger follow commands. She could also have the wild cohort feat. 1 rank of handle animal, +2 from wild cohort and +3 from charisma still means she can fail a dc 10 check.Last edited by Yanisa; 2020-12-15 at 02:39 PM.
Proudly addicted to pointing out where exactly rules can be found.
Countdown to Belkar's death and my follow-up count gives us less then 3 weeks left. Poor Belkar.
Avatar by Akrim.elf
___
What effects allow a saving throw?
List of almost all 3.5 skills.
Old PF Initiative Build
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2020-12-19, 09:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2015
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- Alamogordo
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
Gonna need another page to help determine if the party is in another dimension or if Team Evil is in another dimension and OotS isn’t, or if both are. At least this confirms Team Evil are trash explorers. They never look for traps, perhaps just expecting damage traps and not harmless traps.
Characters I've enjoyed playing for more than four sessions:
Falgar the Swiftblade
Revain Sumeth, Whip Fighter Extraordinaire
Malvin Firel, Cleric of Corellon, Destroyer of Undeath
Vongur Dorent, Primeval Champion of Poverty
In defense of the Vow of Poverty
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2020-12-19, 09:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2016
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- Seoul
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
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2020-12-19, 09:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Northern Ireland
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
"They couldn't know that the points from the mainline to the siding were frozen, and the signal should have been set at 'DANGER', but snow had forced it down."
- The Flying Kipper
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2020-12-19, 09:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
The Order can be on the Material Plane, with the Gate, but with Team Evil having been teleported to a demiplane full of monsters, and no gate.
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2020-12-19, 09:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2016
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
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2020-12-19, 09:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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2020-12-19, 10:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2016
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
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2020-12-19, 02:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2020
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2020-12-19, 03:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
Yup - all it takes is a 9th Level spell, cast by either an arcane caster or a cleric with the Creation domain:
https://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/genesis.htm
There's a psychic power too- but psychic power users are implied to be somewhat rare in OOTS, though present.Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
New Marut Avatar by Linkele
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2020-12-19, 03:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2012
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
Last edited by Yanisa; 2020-12-19 at 03:31 PM.
Proudly addicted to pointing out where exactly rules can be found.
Countdown to Belkar's death and my follow-up count gives us less then 3 weeks left. Poor Belkar.
Avatar by Akrim.elf
___
What effects allow a saving throw?
List of almost all 3.5 skills.
Old PF Initiative Build
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2020-12-19, 08:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2016
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- Seoul
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
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2020-12-19, 10:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
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- Beverly, MA, USA
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
Number of Character Appearances VII - To Absent Friends
Currently playing a level 20 aasimar necromancer named Zebulun Salathiel and a level 9 goliath diviner named Lo-Kag.
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2020-12-20, 02:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2012
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
Yeah, I also didn't realize that Serine probably hired a wizard. How big are the chance she had another high level sorcerer/wizard friend after the Order of the Scribble drama. Hiring a level 17 caster with a spell of 5000 xp costs 26.530 gold pieces. (5 gold per XP, and 90 gp per caster level.) if there are a thousand doors, the price becomes more than 26 million.
Then again, if there are thousand doors, they also need a thousand days of adventures to gain enough xp. And a CR 17 combat gives 36.000 GP, so 36 million gold. But the wizard who is fighting to gain XP also wants another share of that.
And a thousand castings of Genesis will take 7000 days. ~8000 days is about 22 years. Add another half year because it takes 180 days before a plane reaches full size. (In fact if it's all the same place, it takes a half year per Genesis because of that growth rate. A thousand castings become 500 years.) And we need to deal with the whole building of the dungeons too. And the fact all demiplanes are circles, but all dungeons sound like linear hallways. Maybe some dungeons are shared on the same demiplane, but at some point I need to give up the math.
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On a completely different note. Is the fact Haley discovered a magic trap in #1219 enough for us to determine a minimum amount of ranks for search? A magic trap has a DC of 25 + spelllevel. Most people compare this to teleportation circle, which is 9th level with a DC of 34. However, it doesn't like like a teleportation circle and we only can assume the lowest possible numbers. So I am going to compare with the level 7 spell, greater teleport, or DC 32.
Haley has a int of 12+. No room for skill feats (in fact she has more feats then possible for her level?) and earlier remarks shows she has ranks, but doesn't see search as a priority. At level 15, max ranks would be 18, but to hit DC 32 she would only need 11 ranks (+1 int) on rolling a twenty.
I would put it a low 10+ ranks, because Haley might have 14 int (Bonus languages, plural), but no more than that.Proudly addicted to pointing out where exactly rules can be found.
Countdown to Belkar's death and my follow-up count gives us less then 3 weeks left. Poor Belkar.
Avatar by Akrim.elf
___
What effects allow a saving throw?
List of almost all 3.5 skills.
Old PF Initiative Build
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2020-12-20, 07:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2017
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- Bristol, UK
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert
I don't think there's a issue with the number of Haley's feats. Her entry lists her with 9 feats known so far. She gets two at level 1 (as human), 5 from levels 3, 6, 9, 12, and 15, and she can take additional feats instead of rogue special abilities (which she qualified for at levels 10, 13 and 16, and I don't she's demonstrated any of those so far) so we've actually got leeway for one more feat or special ability at her present level before she breaks RAW.